Well we are running into issues where it takes nearly four hours to complete one Act 1 quest, with some of the group leaving after the first encounter because they only could have committed two hours to the game.

The heroes are new players and the first couple of quests I understand their turns are going to be a little long because they are going over the rules in their heads. But now we are almost upon the interlude and I feel it might be time we use a timer for everyone's turns.

I brought this up last time we played, with the heroes who have shorter schedules agreeing it was a good idea but the other two didn't like it because they want to have time to formulate strategies. Which, as Overlord, kind of annoys me because they end up taking 45 minutes discussing their entire turns with each and every possible outcome before even the first hero takes their turn, THEN once turns have happened and I play trap cards they do a mid-hero-turn strategy discussion that takes another 15 minutes as they plot out all new possible outcomes. In contrast the Overlord turns are pretty fast, mostly because I am looking at the clock and want to make sure we can finish the entire quest and not wait till or next meeting (we meet twice a month and id like to do more than one campaign a year).

So does anyone one else use timed turns? If so how many minutes do you allow each hero, the entire turn for the heroes, overlord turn, and so forth?

In my group we determine avaible time using hourglasses. Heroes and overlord each get 10 minutes per turn. That means usually 2,5 minutes per hero. The clock is stopped during rolls or when the overlord plays a trap.

Wow, 45 minutes per turn? Really?

Yeah, you definitely need to put a stop to that.

When we play, the heroes take maybe 10 minutes - at most - discussing strategy, then they go to it. Most turns, significantly less.

Considering how much of the OL's arsenal is about interrupting heroes and messing with their actions, it sounds like your group is spending way to much time analyzing the possibilities.

Sounds like analysis paralysis to me.

It's not much fun if the OL can order a pizza, go pick it up, eat it, and still the heroes have yet to move.

Wow, 45 minutes per turn? Really?

Yeah, you definitely need to put a stop to that.

When we play, the heroes take maybe 10 minutes - at most - discussing strategy, then they go to it. Most turns, significantly less.

Considering how much of the OL's arsenal is about interrupting heroes and messing with their actions, it sounds like your group is spending way to much time analyzing the possibilities.

Wow ten minutes would be great, but I will probably initiate a 15 minutes for entire hero turn and 5 for the overlord with 2.5 minutes added per monster group, with an intent of getting an entire turn rotation to be around 25 minutes.

Half of them like the timed turns idea (they have tighter schedules) the other two argue that the strategy is part of the game so they should have as much time as possible to come up with their "best turn" and minimize mistakes. To which I explained is sapping the fun out of the game for me (the OL), because I end up only really "playing" 15 minutes out of every hour, and mistakes they make are part of the OL's tool kit, I understand its a competition but they are asking for a handicap by having the time to mock out their entire turn multiple times before deciding what to do.

I play this game with many groups and one of them is just like yours. Taking forever until they start to do anything, analyzing 3 different strategies including the next few turns and try to plan everything perfectly.

However this is Descent and nearly everytime after they've done their turn their whole strategy won't work out, because something (dice rolls or OL movement) didn't work like they expected. Then they start to be upset about the ridicolous movement of large monsters "it takes away all the atmosphere" they say when rats move especially quickly through the sewers or they start to argue how unlucky they were and how lucky the OL was.

What I'm trying to say is that Descent isn't the most fun when you plan everything to great detail, because your detailed plans will fail. There are much too much options for OL and heroes to completely change the situation on the gaming board, to even think you can plan ahead that well. The OL can deviate from what is expected and compensate short time losses with long term benefits, just like the heroes can, if the situation seems dire.

This means if your plans don't work out, they won't work out. If they work out well for once, the OL can change the situation to make your long-term plan less valuable by taking a few small sacrifices at first, which means even if your plans work out at first, they don't work out for long.

All in all I don't see Descent as a game, where making detailed plans is the most fun or even the most successfull way of playing this game. This results from the fact that neither side is mechanical and can completely change what's expected from them. That is not to say that it's best to just run in and act. You need a strategy, but a flexible one. You should rather aim for good position than for the excact first step to the next step of your plan.

This doesn't mean this game is light on strategy, it just means that narrow and detailed plans are destined to fail, because every party can do so many different things that anticipating their excact reactions becomes pretty pointless.

I think if you bring this point accross, your group maybe changes its attitude. I will give my group one more encounter before I bring this up, maybe they will find it out themselves and I don't need to discuss with them if a game is boring and unstrategic if you can't plan your whole game ahead.

I play this game with many groups and one of them is just like yours. Taking forever until they start to do anything, analyzing 3 different strategies including the next few turns and try to plan everything perfectly.

However this is Descent and nearly everytime after they've done their turn their whole strategy won't work out, because something (dice rolls or OL movement) didn't work like they expected. Then they start to be upset about the ridicolous movement of large monsters "it takes away all the atmosphere" they say when rats move especially quickly through the sewers or they start to argue how unlucky they were and how lucky the OL was.

Haha yes, I have seen them spend 10 minutes debating a plan, pointing out each step they will each take on each turn and where they will attack from. Then the first hero takes their turn and set their plan into motion, he misses the first attack and my monster survives the second, OK back to the drawing board the remaining heroes then make a new plan and take another 10 minutes going over the options. Second hero takes their turn and I play a trap card and they have to end their movement and thus they return to the discussion phase and take another 10 minutes to come up with a way to salvage their strategy.

Maybe your point about spending so much time planning being pointless because it wont matter with all the variables (bad dice rolls, OL cards, not taking something into account like a monster ability, etc) will sway them into agreeing to timed turns.

Maybe your point about spending so much time planning being pointless because it wont matter with all the variables (bad dice rolls, OL cards, not taking something into account like a monster ability, etc) will sway them into agreeing to timed turns.

I am really against introducing such disciplining measurements and I hope I can convince them with arguments. However I think it's a good idea to convince them to try it just one time with these time constraints, so they maybe recognise how little impact their intensive planing phases had on their success in the game.

My group allows 2 minutes per character player in the group.

So two players 2 minutes. 3 players 3 minutes, 4 players 4 minutes

If after that time, each player does what they want. If the argument continues the Overlords gets his turn and all players lose theirs.

After the time expires, players go in order around the table and make their moves, without discussion.

My group allows 2 minutes per character player in the group.

So two players 2 minutes. 3 players 3 minutes, 4 players 4 minutes

If after that time, each player does what they want. If the argument continues the Overlords gets his turn and all players lose theirs.

After the time expires, players go in order around the table and make their moves, without discussion.

Dang ... you are a true OL (martinet and dictatorial) !!!

We do not have any formal time limits. We usually allow the heroes to have a "pre-quest planning meeting" right after setup. This allows them to figure out their overall strategy and in general, that cuts down on turn time. However, our last campaign took more like 35 hours than 20.

I have a house rule I like to implement in all of my games. I tell people that they aren't allowed to overly strategize with each other, because it makes many players feel as if their only job is to sit at the table and move their character in the way that everyone else has dictated they should move. Instead, everyone should take their own turn, announcing what they're doing and if they want, why they're doing it. Then, everyone else can choose their own move, and can learn to play off each other. Teamwork! Yeah!

I basically have 3 campaigns going right now. Unfortunately, the regular one that meets weekly is chock full of analysis paralysis (and they instantly said "no" to my house rule). We just finished a 3 hour session last week, in which only ONE out of the TWO Encounters was finished. The game is currently "paused" on my dining room table for when they come back over in a few nights.

I feel like these long, drawn-out turns kill the mood of the game. I know they're enjoying themselves, so I let them continue... but I stop envisioning myself as an evil entity trying to spread darkness across the land, and instead feel like some referee that just wants to pound the players into the dirt. I've been toying with the idea of telling them that they should stop their long-drawn discussions for 3 reasons:

1) Thematically, their characters would not be capable of having such deep discussions while the monsters are charging them, and therefore, they should limit their conversations to emulate that.

2) Variables! You can plan as much as you want, as often as you want, but the moment you roll the dice, all of those plans can get thrown out the window. There's no point to spending that much time planning.

2) Timing is definitely becoming a factor. We meet Monday nights, and I just started a new job with a much longer commute. I can't stay up as late as we used to, and as seen in our last game, we can't even finish a full quest in a decent amount of time.

I have a house rule I like to implement in all of my games. I tell people that they aren't allowed to overly strategize with each other, because it makes many players feel as if they're only job is to sit at the table and move their character in the way that everyone else has dictated they should move. Instead, everyone should take their own turn, announcing what they're doing and if they want, why they're doing it. Then, everyone else can choose their own move, and can learn to play off each other. Teamwork! Yeah!

I basically have 3 campaigns going right now. Unfortunately, the regular one that meets weekly is chock full of analysis paralysis (and they instantly said "no" to my house rule). We just finished a 3 hour session last week, in which only ONE out of the TWO Encounters was finished. The game is currently "paused" on my dining room table for when they come back over in a few nights.

I feel like these long, drawn-out turns kill the mood of the game. I know they're enjoying themselves, so I let them continue... but I stop envisioning myself as an evil entity trying to spread darkness across the land, and instead feel like some referee that just wants to pound the players into the dirt. I've been toying with the idea of telling them that they should stop their long-drawn discussions for 3 reasons:

1) Thematically, their characters would not be capable of having such deep discussions while the monsters are charging them, and therefore, they should limit their conversations to emulate that.

2) Variables! You can plan as much as you want, as often as you want, but the moment you roll the dice, all of those plans can get thrown out the window. There's no point to spending that much time planning.

2) Timing is definitely becoming a factor. We meet Monday nights, and I just started a new job with a much longer commute. I can't stay up as late as we used to, and as seen in our last game, we can't even finish a full quest in a decent amount of time.

I totally sympathize with you. I think the problem is as someone mentioned in a different topic thread, that people get caught up in winning at all costs and refuse to relinquish anything that is seen as an advantage. They play to win and not to have fun, because winning is what is fun. So they are entitled to the advantages they need. This is what it always comes to when I suggest timed turns with my group, the more competitive players feel like something is being taken away from them that will give their opponent an advantage, in this case its me who is trying to pull a fast one on them to tip the balance in my favor.

Ultimately it comes down to how willing anyone is to play a game with someone with that kind of personality. It's just a game after all right? I am sure I am being overly dramatic, but still.

I have seen them spend 10 minutes debating a plan, pointing out each step they will each take on each turn and where they will attack from. Then the first hero takes their turn and set their plan into motion, he misses the first attack and my monster survives the second, OK back to the drawing board the remaining heroes then make a new plan and take another 10 minutes going over the options.

Next time you're playing, try this: While they're discussing all the options and coming up with an ideal plan, interject to point out things you could do that would screw them up. Even if you don't actually have the cards in hand, say things like "Yeah, but I could drop a pit trap on you here and then you lose a full action getting out."

It may actually make things take longer at first, but hopefully, eventually, they'll get the message that no matter what plan they try, the OL can fork with it so there's no point trying to optimize every last step. And you'll get to do something while you wait 45 minutes for them to take their turns (to wit: messing with their heads.)

I have seen them spend 10 minutes debating a plan, pointing out each step they will each take on each turn and where they will attack from. Then the first hero takes their turn and set their plan into motion, he misses the first attack and my monster survives the second, OK back to the drawing board the remaining heroes then make a new plan and take another 10 minutes going over the options.

Next time you're playing, try this: While they're discussing all the options and coming up with an ideal plan, interject to point out things you could do that would screw them up. Even if you don't actually have the cards in hand, say things like "Yeah, but I could drop a pit trap on you here and then you lose a full action getting out."

It may actually make things take longer at first, but hopefully, eventually, they'll get the message that no matter what plan they try, the OL can fork with it so there's no point trying to optimize every last step. And you'll get to do something while you wait 45 minutes for them to take their turns (to wit: messing with their heads.)

This is a good idea, I have also been trying to get my play group to read my OL/Plot deck cards. So they can see how easy it is for me to throw wrenches in plans.

I've never had a timed rule implemented, mostly because it hasn't been a problem for us. Occasionally they take almost a half hour for a turn, but that's rare and is usually followed by a series of very short turns.

Next time you're playing, try this: While they're discussing all the options and coming up with an ideal plan, interject to point out things you could do that would screw them up. Even if you don't actually have the cards in hand, say things like "Yeah, but I could drop a pit trap on you here and then you lose a full action getting out."

It may actually make things take longer at first, but hopefully, eventually, they'll get the message that no matter what plan they try, the OL can fork with it so there's no point trying to optimize every last step. And you'll get to do something while you wait 45 minutes for them to take their turns (to wit: messing with their heads.)

I've done that, actually, and it didn't work. Part of their discussions now are theorizing what I could do to them. >.<

I've done that, actually, and it didn't work. Part of their discussions now are theorizing what I could do to them. >.<

He's played one tripwire. What if he's waiting to play the other? Perhaps he only took the one, and instead has poison dart? If that's the case, maybe we should have our knight go open that door, he has high might! No, we need him to attack the ettin, he's the only one who can get there. If he moves up one space, he can use Oath of honor- but what if he get's tripwired? He's played one tripwire...

I've done that, actually, and it didn't work. Part of their discussions now are theorizing what I could do to them. >.<

He's played one tripwire. What if he's waiting to play the other? Perhaps he only took the one, and instead has poison dart? If that's the case, maybe we should have our knight go open that door, he has high might! No, we need him to attack the ettin, he's the only one who can get there. If he moves up one space, he can use Oath of honor- but what if he get's tripwired? He's played one tripwire...

Wow... that's basically their conversations, except it tends to revolve around "No Rest for the Wicked." We need to stop the goblin. I can get over there with 2 movement actions, but then I can't do anything after that. What if the warrior uses Charge? That'll help. But that's just one attack. Guys! We can just fatigue move over there. But what if he has No Rest for the Wicked? He's used one once. Let's just go get that treasure node. What if he has Mimic??

Next time you're playing, try this: While they're discussing all the options and coming up with an ideal plan, interject to point out things you could do that would screw them up. Even if you don't actually have the cards in hand, say things like "Yeah, but I could drop a pit trap on you here and then you lose a full action getting out."

It may actually make things take longer at first, but hopefully, eventually, they'll get the message that no matter what plan they try, the OL can fork with it so there's no point trying to optimize every last step. And you'll get to do something while you wait 45 minutes for them to take their turns (to wit: messing with their heads.)

I've done that, actually, and it didn't work. Part of their discussions now are theorizing what I could do to them. >.<

Haha! Yeah, I suppose that is the danger. I'd say keep pressing it, though. The next step in this sequence is they'll say "you know what? No matter what we do, he'll have something ready to stop us, so let's just go with the obvious strategy."

or

"You guys, he's planning with us now. The more time we spend talking, the better prepared he'll be."

Right now they're at the stage of being paranoid about what you can do. Keep pushing and eventually they'll reach the stage of just not caring what you have up your sleeve. They'll save a couple movement points in case you throw a monkey wrench at them (if you're lucky, one hero will save a whole action,) but otherwise they'll go with the first strategy they see.

As someone who plays the OL frequently and has done so since 1st ed, I find that one of the OL's most powerful tools is being able to get inside the hero players' heads and screw around with them. They have teamwork as one of their strengths, so anything you can do to divide and conquer is generally well advised. The drawback is that sometimes makes things take longer as they second-guess themselves, but done well, it makes the quest objectives almost secondary to your victory.

In the OP's case, there's a serious problem with AP in the hero party already, so he may want to apply this tactic lightly.

Another suggestion for the OP: rotate OL player frequently. This not only lets the other players see what the OL's capabilities are (as they read the cards for themselves) but it gets them more comfortable with both sides of the game. Hopefully that way there won't be as much debate over the best course of action.

If they're new to the game, I think this is to be expected. Maybe not 45 minutes, but playing slow, sure. It's the process of learning the game, getting the rules under your skin, and I think the analyzing eventually will lead to really skilled (and fast) players, versus those who never give things much thought and just rely on luck.

See that's the main reason why this game is almost not working at all with one of my playgroups. It's nothing to do with Descent, any kind of thinky game will lead to the same freaking waiting time and 10-minutes decisions, like which monster to kill when both monsters are the same and are both adjacent to the hero waving the sword. My hero group would also plan in advance, which is in fact something they should be doing, but the problem is that something will invariably occur and force them to re-think the whole approach.

I don't think that's wrong in any way, it's just that type of game, and I think all players should be able to dedicate time to decide over the best course of actions. The game entices player into doing it, really. The risk of losing for not thinking situations through is huge.

I don't think there's any solution to that, apart from not suggesting playing the game. I would actually call Descent a GAP game, with G as "Group" because it's a collective inability to make quick decisions, slowing down the pace of the game drastically. Descent is meant to flow, but at the same time you have a lot of decisioons to make, even as the Overlord.

I think you need to estimate the time an encounter would take you and your group, take that into account upon planning your sessions. If your playgroup is not capable of playing one encounter before splitting up then you can't possibly play the game. I mean, you CAN take a picture of the board and put all tokens in zip bags, I´ve done that before in emergency situations, it works fine but it truly breaks the experience from a story perspective (it leaves stuff unfinished, to be taken up two weeks later, so yeah..).

My first playgroup (2 players with 2 heroes each, plus me) can complete 2 encounters in 3 hours, or one big quest (1 single encounter, like interlude) in slightly shorter time, including visiting the shop and purchasing skills. They´re quite slow, and I often (silently) come up to the same conclusions long before they do, but on the other hand they´re several people and discussion things is the killer. If you´re on your own you are just so much faster in making decisions without checking with people and analysing their other ideas. Ultimately one idea is better than the other ones so you effectively waste your time analysing bad decisions. That's just the way it is when you have a group of people, unless you have an alpha gamer in the group forcing upon his own decisions. Which is bad, lol.

My second playgroup (4 players plus me) can barely complete a short ecnounter in two hours, one quest in 4 if we´re lucky. They´re VERY slow, and only 2 players seem to make the calls, with the other two as backups.

Some of your experiences sound very familiar. I currently only have the one play group, and I am seeing one of the hero players developing into an alpha gamer as you described, but in their defense its because one of the other players really takes a backseat to the game, when their turn comes around they immediately ask what they should do and don't move until someone tells them... which will be the budding alpha gamer.

There are time constraints (we all work and are either grad students or faculty, or both). I have tried to eliminate as much time consuming tasks as possible, like setting up the map before people arrive (we determine the next quest at the end of the session, gives me time to set up the map but also time to do more OL homework on monster selection and strategy), and putting out all the needed fiddly bits like hero/condition tokens, the travel/shop/secretroom/OL decks, etc. All in the hopes that every minute of the session is spent on actual playing (campaign phases usually only last a few minutes). So far we have only done Act 1 quests and I am dreading the Interlude because I know it will take longer than usual. I have floated the idea of timed turns, with lukewarm responses. I think I will start timing turns just to see how long we are actually taking and analyze what is taking the most time, with the suspicion it is over-planning on the heroes part.

I think two and a half hours, maybe three, sounds about right. Id like to get it down though just to get more play time. I admit though thinking we can do two quests in a three-hour session may be a little unreasonable.

One thing you have to remember, is that everyone has only a short amount of time to make decisions. If it were a real situation would you have hours to stand and think about your decisions, while the enemies patiently wait. the answer is no.

We like fast moving games, plus we can play more of them. that's why we adopted the system.

My one constant group finally finished their quest as of last Saturday. Total playtime: 6 hours.

I don't necessarily mind the strategy talk, or asking for suggestions, but it really shouldn't end up taking as long as it does. In a game like Descent, where the dice make many of the determinations, it's not worth speculating over what you're capable of rolling. For instance:

The group was speculating how much damage they could do in a single turn. The Geomancer promptly pointed out that he was capable of inflicting 12 damage per attack at maximum (24 damage total), so their odds were good enough. They proceeded to debate that for a REALLY long time, before deciding that the Geomancer's plan was ideal, and that his current damage output was great enough to get the job done. His first attack scored 5 damage, and his second attack missed.

I do really like my house rule of "no strategizing... just move and state why you're doing what you're doing. People can then play off each other." It's kind of like a team-building exercise, where everyone learns to work together. Typically, whenever I teach a game like this to new players, they get really bright-eyed and excited when I mention my house rule, so I know that it usually goes over well. Unfortunately, at the rate that my current and most constant group is going, we're going to get half of a quest done everytime we meet.

I love the game. I currently own everything that has been released for it (well, minus the co-op expansion, but I'm not interested in that). I know that there's nothing wrong with the rules (minus some of the fiddly wording bits! ). I guess it just comes down to the type of player that you like to play with.... Play-to-win, or Play-for-fun?