Come 2018 we won't have to worry about all those annoying tauntaun recursion decks anymore!

This might be the worst thing FFG has ever done. Why would they cancel force packs? But they are keeping the Core? Might as well play Magic if this is how it's going to be. 2018 or not. Not excited.

Yeah, part of the appeal of the LCG model is they keep stuff in print forever.

How many cycles have been printed for the Star Wars LCG? I have been meaning to get into it, but haven't pulled the trigger on the purchase yet. If part of the game went out of print before I had it in hand, that would definitely be a major deterrent for me buying into the line at all.

edit: Sorry, stupid question. I looked up the number of cycles myself. My sentiment about not buying in if I couldn't get the complete line of cards still stands though.

It'll be almost four years until this matters...but still. I'm not pleased.

The most attractive part of LCGs to me is the way the card pool, expansions, and deck-building works. And a couple years down the road all of the Hoth stuff will disappear? Seriously?

It'll be almost four years until this matters...but still. I'm not pleased.

The most attractive part of LCGs to me is the way the card pool, expansions, and deck-building works. And a couple years down the road all of the Hoth stuff will disappear? Seriously?

To make room for Hoth 2.0!

Seriously though, this just allows them to make different versions of the same things without running out of Star Wars characters and themes that take place during the Original Trilogy Era without it becoming a "12 different versions of Luke Skywalker deck".

From someone who has been playing AGOT since the beginning, trust me, the rotation idea is a good thing. Wait until a few years from now when you continually see no new players playing the game and there have been a thousand errata and piles of odd rules rulings to remember. If a cardpool continues to grow indefinitely, the game will naturally implode on itself. That is just a natural fact. MTG realized that a long time ago. This is a smart move by FFG.

They even said that cycles that have rotated out will possibly return at later dates, so the cards are never "dead" once they rotate. It is a nice model that ensures a long lifespan for the game.

For instance, I have good friends right now who would like to play AGOT, but the buy-in is ridiculous. It makes me happy to know that next year I will get to play AGOT with a wider community and that people who were hesitating due to the buy-in will now be a part of that community.

This rotation model makes it so that it will never cost more than roughly 500 dollars to be a fully competitive Star Wars player.

AGOT has been through 11 cycles and 6 deluxe expansions.

11x6 = 66 (there are 66 chapter packs)

66x15 = $990

6x30 = $180 (deluxe expansions)

3x40 = $120 (3 core sets)

So total for retail buy-in to AGOT = $1,290 (before tax)

People were not joining the community anymore. The events made it look like the game was going somewhat strong, but it has a really loyal following and the tournament crowd seemed to always be the same people.

To stay viable and healthy the LCGs need this. It will save the games.

From someone who has been playing AGOT since the beginning, trust me, the rotation idea is a good thing. Wait until a few years from now when you continually see no new players playing the game and there have been a thousand errata and piles of odd rules rulings to remember. If a cardpool continues to grow indefinitely, the game will naturally implode on itself. That is just a natural fact. MTG realized that a long time ago. This is a smart move by FFG.

They even said that cycles that have rotated out will possibly return at later dates, so the cards are never "dead" once they rotate. It is a nice model that ensures a long lifespan for the game.

For instance, I have good friends right now who would like to play AGOT, but the buy-in is ridiculous. It makes me happy to know that next year I will get to play AGOT with a wider community and that people who were hesitating due to the buy-in will now be a part of that community.

This rotation model makes it so that it will never cost more than roughly 500 dollars to be a fully competitive Star Wars player.

AGOT has been through 11 cycles and 6 deluxe expansions.

11x6 = 66 (there are 66 chapter packs)

66x15 = $990

6x30 = $180 (deluxe expansions)

3x40 = $120 (3 core sets)

So total for retail buy-in to AGOT = $1,290 (before tax)

People were not joining the community anymore. The events made it look like the game was going somewhat strong, but it has a really loyal following and the tournament crowd seemed to always be the same people.

To stay viable and healthy the LCGs need this. It will save the games.

It will bring in new ones, keep veterans around, overall I think this will do good, I just hope to see certain game mechanics continue, like the new emphasis on the Force Struggle from the Echoes of the Force cycle.

What responsible AGOT-playing adult, or child for that matter, is going to spend hundreds for the same game? It likely won't be a wider community. you can play with a new generation of players perhaps, but that is yet to be seen. I certainly am not spending all over for Game of Thrones, I will enjoy my 1E, or another game. Star Wars is going to be an issue in 4 years, I I'm not sold on expanding now, though I was before!

"For instance, I have good friends right now who would like to play AGOT, but the buy-in is ridiculous. It makes me happy to know that next year I will get to play AGOT with a wider community and that people who were hesitating due to the buy-in will now be a part of that community. "

What responsible AGOT-playing adult, or child for that matter, is going to spend hundreds for the same game? It likely won't be a wider community. you can play with a new generation of players perhaps, but that is yet to be seen. I certainly am not spending all over for Game of Thrones, I will enjoy my 1E, or another game. Star Wars is going to be an issue in 4 years, I I'm not sold on expanding now, though I was before!

Are you a competitive player or are you looking into getting into the competitive scene or will you mostly play this casually?

As a player who completed the Hoth Cycle and just bought two Echoes of the Force packs, I feel pretty crappy considering if they ever do decide to host a tournament in my area, much of my card pool has a limited lifespan.

That's much of my card pool being subject to question, and definitely deters me from ever bothering with a tournament. Bleh. Everyone I know is still catching up but the consensus is now to primarily purchase only non-rotatable cards. Or none at all? Oh and please don't ever pull a "that's not in rotation"

And in AGOT (I am pretty disappointed about that as well, even if the card pool is massive), there's likely no hope for using a 2E card in a 1E deck. That's a cue for the casual player to stop expanding their card pool.

I read the articles and the letter, but I'm still not convinced FFG really gets the big picture. They are absorbed in the world of 'meta' and 'competitive play' so much that they forget that the overwhelming majority of their consumers are not going to tournaments. Ever. And this is prior to the rotation announcement. These are people who truly enjoy the quality of their product, and regularly; but have not completed or kept up with an always growing card pool, or aren't offered tournament or store events (which by the way is not technically specified). These people will be at a disadvantage after much expense, and will likely avoid tournaments if they did intend to go.

My point is just don't stop selling the packs because they are out of rotation please. That would be awful. I thought LCGs were "buy what you like to make the card pool you will enjoy and the rest will be in print forever, with new ones released monthly." I can understand creating "categories" or the restricting of objective sets that can or cannot be played together in an immense card pool, but complete phasing out of sets I've paid for? No thanks.

Maybe we should recycle the cards that are out of rotation then, eh?

"For instance, I have good friends right now who would like to play AGOT, but the buy-in is ridiculous. It makes me happy to know that next year I will get to play AGOT with a wider community and that people who were hesitating due to the buy-in will now be a part of that community. "

What responsible AGOT-playing adult, or child for that matter, is going to spend hundreds for the same game? It likely won't be a wider community. you can play with a new generation of players perhaps, but that is yet to be seen. I certainly am not spending all over for Game of Thrones, I will enjoy my 1E, or another game. Star Wars is going to be an issue in 4 years, I I'm not sold on expanding now, though I was before!

Are you a competitive player or are you looking into getting into the competitive scene or will you mostly play this casually?

I have not had the opportunity to attend a FFG tournament, no. I would love to, but I have a very incomplete AGOT card pool. My Star Wars card pool is actually easily completed, but I am hesitant to keep on with the force packs, as that has been my primary focus. Most of the people that I have come across at store events or casual play are similar. Occasionally there is the rare bird that has a complete card pool, but most people are going to feel like not showing up when their cards are not in rotation anymore. They are basically "qualifying" potential players based on how many of the recent packs they have purchased, lest they get owned with their core set.

It'll be almost four years until this matters...but still. I'm not pleased.

The most attractive part of LCGs to me is the way the card pool, expansions, and deck-building works. And a couple years down the road all of the Hoth stuff will disappear? Seriously?

I agree on the card pool and deck building. When you say disappear, where else besides an FFG event would it be appropriate for someone to say you can't use them? Because that would not be cool and I would probably refrain from playing that person in the future.

They even said that cycles that have rotated out will possibly return at later dates, so the cards are never "dead" once they rotate. It is a nice model that ensures a long lifespan for the game.

Hmm...I must have missed that. It makes a lot more sense that way.

I agree on the card pool and deck building. When you say disappear, where else besides an FFG event would it be appropriate for someone to say you can't use them? Because that would not be cool and I would probably refrain from playing that person in the future.

Oh, we'd still play with them sometimes, and I'm sure plenty of other people would too. But my group's fairly close to the FFG event center, so if we do go to a tournament it'll be there, and we tend to use tournament rules in our casual play. Not out of spite, just 'cause it keeps in practice. And X-Wing is taking up more of our gaming time (tournament and casual) already.

For all you casual players out there, WHO CARES ABOUT ROTATION?! If your not playing this game in a tournament format than play with what ever rules you want. There are no FFG police that are going to come breaking down your door because you didn't stick to their rules. We have people here that have tried different building mechanics to the game just to see what it would be like, different rules for scoring, and all sorts of things just to shake things up from the tournament scene. Rotation never stopped magic players from inventing formats like Legacy or Highlander just to play with their older cards, and it shouldn't stop ANY LCG players either.

Rotation is more about balancing out the competitive scene and allowing the designers to have more leeway in card design without having to worry about balance for all the complicated combinations that could arise with the immense card pool. This promotes a health game state, and gives longevity to a game. Good news is we don't have to worry about it for a long while, and I'm going to be excited to see wedge, new Yoda, old errata, old restrictions, and all kinds of messiness disappear.

So in conclusion, casuals calm yourselves. Competitive players be happy that the meta is going to get a shake up every two cycles after 8 and a healthier game experience.

For all you casual players out there, WHO CARES ABOUT ROTATION?! If your not playing this game in a tournament format than play with what ever rules you want. There are no FFG police that are going to come breaking down your door because you didn't stick to their rules. We have people here that have tried different building mechanics to the game just to see what it would be like, different rules for scoring, and all sorts of things just to shake things up from the tournament scene. Rotation never stopped magic players from inventing formats like Legacy or Highlander just to play with their older cards, and it shouldn't stop ANY LCG players either.

Rotation is more about balancing out the competitive scene and allowing the designers to have more leeway in card design without having to worry about balance for all the complicated combinations that could arise with the immense card pool. This promotes a health game state, and gives longevity to a game. Good news is we don't have to worry about it for a long while, and I'm going to be excited to see wedge, new Yoda, old errata, old restrictions, and all kinds of messiness disappear.

So in conclusion, casuals calm yourselves. Competitive players be happy that the meta is going to get a shake up every two cycles after 8 and a healthier game experience.

I agree with this. I'm casual but I do follow the tournament scene. It's interesting and I like the idea of this rotation not cycling out EVERYTHING. Only 2 cycles taken out per rotation and Core+all Deluxe and the most recent 6 cycles stay in.

Core plus 8 cycles plus deluxe expansions(2?) Is plenty of cards for competitive play, casual all cards will always be relevent, I don't see this as an issue for star wars. AGoT still not an issue i think, a good idea is more like it, and addition of a cleaner reboot being run together with the original, some people will have a hard time buying in, but I think they'll see the light when it's out. All in all, i think good job ffg

Core plus 8 cycles plus deluxe expansions(2?) Is plenty of cards for competitive play, casual all cards will always be relevent, I don't see this as an issue for star wars. AGoT still not an issue i think, a good idea is more like it, and addition of a cleaner reboot being run together with the original, some people will have a hard time buying in, but I think they'll see the light when it's out. All in all, i think good job ffg

I calculated it earlier and posted it on cardgamedb.

36 unique sets in the Core + 22 in EoD + 6 in BotF + 14 in BtS + 180 from the rotation = 258 different unique Objective sets to choose from across both Sides. Even more will be added when there are new Deluxe Sets. Sounds like a good amount of choices to me.

The silver lining: at the rate they're putting packs out, the license will expire before rotation ever becomes an issue!

Remember remember the Fifth of November, set rotation and AGoT reboot.

There's no indication that card set rotation should ever be forgoot.

I can think of two reasons casual players may be disappointed with rotation.

1) Can't buy the old packs that were rotated out. It's a bit of a worry, but you have 4 years to buy 12 packs. If you're really interested in buying everything, this shouldn't be a problem.

2) Odd card interactions. If the rotation allows designers to ignore mechanics from cycles that were rotated out, there is a possibility that there will be weird interactions between cards that are 6-7 cycles apart. If the designers worked to avoid such interactions, that defeats one of the primary reasons for having a rotation. If strange interactions do show up, I think it will mean that any game may need to clearly state ahead of time whether it is playing 1st rotation, 2nd rotation, 3rd rotation, etc. So you can enjoy Hoth Cycle in 10 years, but you may not be mixing it with the 7th and 8th cycles and beyond.

Overall, I'm not worried about the rotation. The fact that the rotation is being implemented shows that FFG does care about making their card games successful and they are interested in solving problems. Hopefully that focus extends to tighter mechanics with fewer unexpected interactions in Star Wars: The Card Game.

I can think of two reasons casual players may be disappointed with rotation.

1) Can't buy the old packs that were rotated out. It's a bit of a worry, but you have 4 years to buy 12 packs. If you're really interested in buying everything, this shouldn't be a problem.

2) Odd card interactions. If the rotation allows designers to ignore mechanics from cycles that were rotated out, there is a possibility that there will be weird interactions between cards that are 6-7 cycles apart. If the designers worked to avoid such interactions, that defeats one of the primary reasons for having a rotation. If strange interactions do show up, I think it will mean that any game may need to clearly state ahead of time whether it is playing 1st rotation, 2nd rotation, 3rd rotation, etc. So you can enjoy Hoth Cycle in 10 years, but you may not be mixing it with the 7th and 8th cycles and beyond.

Overall, I'm not worried about the rotation. The fact that the rotation is being implemented shows that FFG does care about making their card games successful and they are interested in solving problems. Hopefully that focus extends to tighter mechanics with fewer unexpected interactions in Star Wars: The Card Game.

1. Are we certain that out of rotation cycles won't be moved to FFG's Print on Demand service?

2. There is always the risk of odd card interactions, some have been errata'd like the Fleeing the Empire objective from the Core Set. I hope we don't have to specify which cycles are available for "Legends"* games. I'd love to see some themed nights though were people focus on certain cycles intentionally.

*Legends is what I would call an "any cycle goes" game. I chose that name to match the name that the EU has now taken.*

Odd card interactions.

This shouldn't be a huge concern in casual groups. If someone insists on bringing something inherently broken to the table consistently, the group will either decide to forbid/house rule it or just stop playing with said person. The same thing happens in casual Magic formats like Commander/EDH - there is some very unfun and broken things that can be done in that format, but there are usually "gentleman agreements" about not being a ****.

If it's unintentional, it'll likely be something enjoyed or laughed off once and then put away and becoming a story.

If we're talking about the "offficial" casual level with an actual Legacy style format, any hugely problematic pod combinations can be restricted ala Freeholders/Dash as they are found, just as Magic has a restricted/banned list in their eternal formats.

Rotation is good! It is very important when the card pools crows big. It is very easy to make unbalanced combos when the card pool gets bigger and bigger. Also if there is not rotation, certain deck types will continue to dominate the gaming scene or there has to be constant power creep to replace those old "winner" decks.

The problem is less likely in casual play, but in competitive format, every player is looking for that killer combo that brings the victory and in long run it only leads to worse game!

I am not sure that if the 1500 cards is small enough for good game balance... The other thing to worry is if core and deluxe packs becomes the problem... Maybe they errata those? Is there going to be rotation also to deluxe and core packs? In the long run there could be 500000 cards only in core and deluxe packs... How it will be handled?

But summa summarum rotation is good!