I don't think an upgrade that makes it easier for interceptors to arc-dodge is a good idea. You want Soontir to die to non-turret ships occasionally, right?

My predictions, there will be much disapointment. There is no way it will live up to the expectations some of you have built up for it.

If it grants me greater success with Lt. Lorrir, one of my all-time favorite pilots in this game, then I'll be a happy camper. Otherwise, you'll probably be right.

Modification, 3 points: "At the end of the activation phase, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action if you have it in your action bar."

Unusable by Phantoms, can be used to lesser effect by Defenders, A-Wings and E-Wings, benefits low PS pilots more (Avenger suddenly viable, Soontir not all that much better), works against both turrets (rasnge, asteroids) and non-turrets (arc).

But it would do nothing to help against turrets. The designers said there was a card in the Starviper expansion that Inteceptor players especially would love against turrets. Is there an echo in here?

Of course it would help.

You could barrel out of range if an enemy declears you as a target.

You could barrel out of range if an enemy declears you as a target.

Only if you're close to the end of range 3. That ability would be much more effective against non-turret ships that have arcs you can dodge instead of just hoping to get out of range with such a small amount of movement. So it doesn't seem very likely when FFG said that the intent of it is to give fragile arc-dodgers a way to survive against turret ships.

More ideas:

After executing a red maneuver, roll a defense die. If an evade is rolled, remove a stress.

Or:

When executing a koiogran turn or Segnor's loop you may rotate your ship before or after you move.

Seems like most suggestions are missing the point that its supposed to help against turrets...

Seems like most suggestions are missing the point that its supposed to help against turrets...

Sort of? The hard part is coming up with something that really helps against a 360^o firing arc, while also impacting action economy (because the consensus seems to be that it will open up the EPT slot for things besides PtL). The other trick is an idea that doesn't just get better with PtL, too.

Being able to Boost and Barrel Roll in the same turn is sort of what defines the PS4+ Interceptors, so most suggestions seem to play off of that. And a trigger of "when defending against an attack outside of the attacker's firing arc" is turret-only, so that's been common.

For my money, I'd guess something like, "When defending against an attack outside of the attacker's firing arc, the attacker rolls one less attack die." But I'd be worried that's too powerful, and doesn't impact action economy, so why wouldn't I just take PtL and Focus/Evade like usual?

For my money, I'd guess something like, "When defending against an attack outside of the attacker's firing arc, the attacker rolls one less attack die." But I'd be worried that's too powerful, and doesn't impact action economy, so why wouldn't I just take PtL and Focus/Evade like usual?

Well, just because there's a lot of people that hope it adds additional action economy or hopes it allows you to avoid taking PTL, doesn't mean they are correct. I haven't seen anything that hints toward that from reliable sources.

It has to be more effective than the current options, which involve PTL turtling and shield/hull/stealth upgrades (which is what your idea, or at least something similar, does). This is why I don't get the consistent hope of some that it somehow adds movement because an interceptor already has a ton of options for that and they are all completely wasted against turrets, even if it's something that allows them to boost/barrel roll and turtle against turrets. The boost/barrel roll just doesn't matter and takes the slot of an additional defensive option. Why would it makes sense to pay more points for movement when those are already the wasted points an interceptor pays against turrets?

Well, just because there's a lot of people that hope it adds additional action economy or hopes it allows you to avoid taking PTL, doesn't mean they are correct. I haven't seen anything that hints toward that from reliable sources.

It has to be more effective than the current options, which involve PTL turtling and shield/hull/stealth upgrades (which is what your idea, or at least something similar, does). This is why I don't get the consistent hope of some that it somehow adds movement because an interceptor already has a ton of options for that and they are all completely wasted against turrets, even if it's something that allows them to boost/barrel roll and turtle against turrets. The boost/barrel roll just doesn't matter and takes the slot of an additional defensive option. Why would it makes sense to pay more points for movement when those are already the wasted points an interceptor pays against turrets?

I think you're pretty much spot-on, which is part of what makes it so hard to guess!

I'd argue part of the reason people tie it to Boost is because there's all of two ships that have it natively, and if Autothrusters is a Modification as well then only Interceptors and A-Wings will be able to take it and have Boost.

I agree though, adding movement or positioning to an Interceptor doesn't really help against 360^o fire. So if that's on the card, it would do something else as well, which is less likely (to me, anyway) than just having one effect.

I like the idea of punishing out-of-arc fire, because it really only effects Turrets, who can still get around it by lining up an in-arc shot. Maybe out-of-arc shots can't be modified or rerolled?

The real problem for me is I think FFG does such an excellent job of thinking outside the box, I feel like we as a community are really limited to guessing off of the major game effects already in-play, and they more frequently come up with things from out of nowhere. Who saw Nera Dantels coming? That sort of thing.

Which is why I kind of laugh whenever the "fix the Advanced" threads pop up. Based on the A-wing, I think FFG is going to be a tad bit more creative.

My buddy and I are spitballing about it, and he's convinced/hopeful "Autothrusters" implies movement of some sort. Maybe if you have a Boost symbol in your Action Bar, any time you overlap an opponent in the Activation Phase, you adjust your ship base, and then are not considered to be touching? You can still take actions and shoot that ship that round. Not sure if it's overly effective against Falcons, but it would certainly ruin Dash's day.

My buddy and I are spitballing about it, and he's convinced/hopeful "Autothrusters" implies movement of some sort. Maybe if you have a Boost symbol in your Action Bar, any time you overlap an opponent in the Activation Phase, you adjust your ship base, and then are not considered to be touching? You can still take actions and shoot that ship that round. Not sure if it's overly effective against Falcons, but it would certainly ruin Dash's day.

I think making it useful if you have the boost action on your action bar makes sense, but if you have to do a boost to gain it, it better darn well make you immune to turrets to be better than current options.

When people talk about adding movement to the interceptor vs. turrets, I think of this scene, appropriate for several reasons:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE&app=desktop

This is why I don't get the consistent hope of some that it somehow adds movement because an interceptor already has a ton of options for that and they are all completely wasted against turrets, even if it's something that allows them to boost/barrel roll and turtle against turrets. The boost/barrel roll just doesn't matter and takes the slot of an additional defensive option.

I agree though, adding movement or positioning to an Interceptor doesn't really help against 360^o fire.

Even if that movement takes place after the other ship has already had its chance to shoot, and thus the Interceptor can get into range without ever being shot at? Somehow that "just doesn't matter" or "doesn't really help". Really?

Most of the guesses are literally "out of arc attacks get punished" which a) seems a little on-the-nose for what I expect FFG to do, and b) is not the sense I got from the interview. Either that, or the guess simply adds or subtracts dice or Evades, which is somehow considered a better upgrade than dodging arcs and attacks completely???

To that end, and because I never got to respond to this:

a bonus attack or defense die, plus the cost and the mod slot filled up, is a poor trade for not being shot at.

-snip-

Not getting shot at is the #1 defense of Interceptors, and the entire reason turrets are a problem in the first place.

So it's a poor trade, even though it's also their best chance at survival. OK.

This is why I don't get the consistent hope of some that it somehow adds movement because an interceptor already has a ton of options for that and they are all completely wasted against turrets, even if it's something that allows them to boost/barrel roll and turtle against turrets. The boost/barrel roll just doesn't matter and takes the slot of an additional defensive option.

I agree though, adding movement or positioning to an Interceptor doesn't really help against 360^o fire.

Even if that movement takes place after the other ship has already had its chance to shoot, and thus the Interceptor can get into range without ever being shot at? Somehow that "just doesn't matter" or "doesn't really help". Really?

Let's look at confluence of events that have to occur to make that card useful. First, you have to be facing a higher PS turret. Then, you have to be outside of range 3 AND be able to move into range 3 after they shoot. However, considering you don't really know where they will end up since you move first, and they may get to make use of boost to deny you the chance, even if you predicted correctly. Then, even if you manage to pull it off once, how many times do you think per game you can pull this off in a game?

If the ability does something as simple as stacking another evade, it means that a turret would have a very tough time getting any damage through if you have double evade, or double evade+focus. Much more reliable and effective than the above scenario.

Much more reliable and effective than the above scenario.

Reliable, maybe. Effective, no. I think that's where everyone's getting confused.

Much more reliable and effective than the above scenario.

Reliable, maybe. Effective, no. I think that's where everyone's getting confused.

I don't disagree that something like an extra evade die probably won't be enough, and I don't know what the final solution will be, but if you don't think having an extra evade token is "effective," (assuming cost isn't a factor), I'm really not sure we're going to come to any agreement. Is it more effective than not taking shots and still getting your own? No. However, I haven't seen an elegant solution for that involves movement that will actually be consistent enough to be effective.

But it would do nothing to help against turrets. The designers said there was a card in the Starviper expansion that Inteceptor players especially would love against turrets. Is there an echo in here?

Of course it would help.

You could barrel out of range if an enemy declears you as a target.

Barrel rolling out of range is not only rare (you'd have to be at the edge of range 2, and at the correct orientation), but it still does nothing to actually help Interceptors. The turret ship is still on the board and still remains a threat. It has to be something to limit attack/increase defense when outside the firing arc.

Seems like most suggestions are missing the point that its supposed to help against turrets...

Sort of? The hard part is coming up with something that really helps against a 360^o firing arc, while also impacting action economy (because the consensus seems to be that it will open up the EPT slot for things besides PtL). The other trick is an idea that doesn't just get better with PtL, too.

Being able to Boost and Barrel Roll in the same turn is sort of what defines the PS4+ Interceptors, so most suggestions seem to play off of that. And a trigger of "when defending against an attack outside of the attacker's firing arc" is turret-only, so that's been common.

For my money, I'd guess something like, "When defending against an attack outside of the attacker's firing arc, the attacker rolls one less attack die." But I'd be worried that's too powerful, and doesn't impact action economy, so why wouldn't I just take PtL and Focus/Evade like usual?

Autothrusters (or whatever) could be a ship modification, allowing PTL or other EPT.

Never mind.

Autothrusters - 4 points.

Once per turn, if your ship has boost, you may crush your opponent's YT-1300 model with a rubber mallet.

There, fixed.

Ha.

Mini-action economy (allowing free boost/BR or token generation) + an out of arc ability should do all that is needed and more.

Someone did mention allowing you to double action something and that would be quite nice. Double boost or BR means an interceptor can rule the sky again as reactionary hammers. Double evade = tanky and is great news for Kir. Even Lorrir would get a kick out of it. Sounds like Auto-throttle to me: ability to set your flying to a certain style.

Could potentialally free up the EPT slot for some of the new and yet to come goodies to be worth it over PTL

Might buy a rubber mallet too; if KO is right it will be absolutely worth the investment!

Much more reliable and effective than the above scenario.

Reliable, maybe. Effective, no. I think that's where everyone's getting confused.

but if you don't think having an extra evade token is "effective,"

I didn't say that, I said it wasn't more effective than dodging an arc entirely.

Maybe giving out free boost or barrel rolls does help against turrets. By having free mobility actions you can still arc dodge everything but the turret obviously, but now you can spend your action turtling up by taking an evade and if you have PtL you can also focus. It's not game breaking and it kind of helps against everything. Yes you still have to worry about Turreted ships with gunner but if that is the only ship that can fire at you the tokens go alot further on defense.

I am not saying I think any of us have what the Autoth... card does even close and to be honest I am guessing it will be different then anything we have come up with. I just think that if it is mobility options maybe we have bene looking at them in the wrong light with how they could help against turrets.

Maybe giving out free boost or barrel rolls does help against turrets. By having free mobility actions you can still arc dodge everything but the turret obviously, but now you can spend your action turtling up by taking an evade and if you have PtL you can also focus. It's not game breaking and it kind of helps against everything. Yes you still have to worry about Turreted ships with gunner but if that is the only ship that can fire at you the tokens go alot further on defense.

I am not saying I think any of us have what the Autoth... card does even close and to be honest I am guessing it will be different then anything we have come up with. I just think that if it is mobility options maybe we have bene looking at them in the wrong light with how they could help against turrets.

Wait a minute. You so desperately want this card to affect only two ships in the game that have barrel roll that you're saying for it to meet what the designers said it would in the interview--that is, negate turrets--that they'd do so only because the ship would arc dodge every other ship on the board, thus allowing it spend it's action on evade? Did I read your post right?

What if every opponent ship is a turret ship? Don't you think the designers thought of that when they said this card would be beneficial? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but your bubble is illogical.