Recently came across this situation for the first time in a tournament last weekend. It was turn three, our fleets slowly moving towards each other, the PS2 and PS4 pilots had all moved and then my opponent realises he has forgotten to place a dial for one crucial ship (Jake Farell who was coming up the side of the board to flank).

Since half of all other ships had already moved, we quickly decided that it would be an unfair advantage for him to suddenly pick a maneuver from his dial. Asking the TO, it was decided that I would pick the maneuver instead. This was all clear and everybody agreed.

My question is; how do you best judge which maneuver to pick?

For example: I could have picked a 3 Right. This would have just about taken Jake Farell straight off the map. My opponent conceded that he would accept this for what it was, a decision made to give myself a significant advantage in a competition. It would have effectively decided the outcome of the match from that turn.

In the end, I picked a 2 Right. This forced my opponent to spend two turns 'turning around' with hard 1's and so while his flanker couldn't take part in the alpha strike, he was still able to contribute a few shots afterwards.

I won the match 85-44 [points destroyed]. It wasn't the perfect win it probably could have been and ultimately, my opponent later went on to place four places higher than me as he won more games in the end.

I don't necessarily regret my decision, but it was a difficult choice to make. He had made a genuine error and it felt bad to punish somebody for that, but the rules were also very clear on the subject.

What choice would you have made?

I would probably just pick the move they wanted to make. Not a fun way to win for me. I like your solution though.

I would probably just pick the move they wanted to make. Not a fun way to win for me. I like your solution though.

Being the nice guy I am, I would have done the exactly this. This is why I'll never win Worlds.

In a tournament, something similar, probably a K turn to stress him and give him a few turns to come back.

In a friendly, probably let him pick or choose a straight manoeuvre.

I think you made the most fair choice. I likely would have done the 3 hard given that it was a tournament, but I also would have likely felt bad about it later. Your only options in this scenario are to totally mess up your opponent or "forgive" him and try to guess what he logically would have done had he not forgotten (which basically doesn't penalize him at all/much). I think in this case making him waste some, likely critical. time was a good balance. He doesn't lose the ship entirely, but does lose an important piece at a critical time.

I would probably pick the slowest available straight, in order to simulate hesitation but minimise negative impact.

I can see the dilemma. I too enjoy playing people at their best, but as you say the rules are clear. It's a tough one, but ultimately I'd have to ask myself how important is it to win? I suspect that is a different answer for everyone. I agree with the general intent of your decision and think you handled it admirably. I'm certain that not everyone would have made the same choice.

When you get to pick your opponents maneuver, it's the simulation saying "whoop the pilot overstressed and just lost control". So yeah. Pick what works best for you.

This one is a bit of a pickle because I consider it a "shared" mistake. Sure, the opponent did not set his dial, but both could have spotted it or one or both could have felt rushed because of the clock, etc, etc.

It's not like if a player selects a red maneuver while already stressed; that's solely his fault and I would have no problem landing him on an asteroid (preferably so that his next move will also cause him damage) or off the board for that. Overall, consdering that it was a tournament, I would say you handled it generously. Had I been in your opponent's shoes, however, I would have been totally fine with you sending me off the board.

If it's obvious which maneuver he'd make I'd probably have gone with that one.

This one is a bit of a pickle because I consider it a "shared" mistake.

That all depends really. Where are the dials placed, what's going on, how many ships are there, ect... I don't think I have any responsibility to make sure the other person placed all his dials. If I see one is missing I'll mention it, but I'm not going to count his dials to make sure.

I would have been totally fine with you sending me off the board.

This is IMO the default attitude to have. It's neither good or poor sportsmanship, it's just what you should do. The rule is clear, and getting upset about it is very poor sportsmanship.

Likewise I'd say that sending the ship off the table would be the natural action, after all you gain a very large advantage from his mistake, and that is really how you win games. Capitalizing on the other guys mistakes. Doing that would not be poor sportsmanship, but doing what Floof did was IMO good sportsmanship.

If you didnt fly them off the board (esp in a tourney) you are doing it wrong

Fly Casual. I like your solution, I might have made him fly straight towards my fleet at max speed.

If you didnt fly them off the board (esp in a tourney) you are doing it wrong

Then I will continue to do it wrong. If someone flew my ship off the board I wouldn't be upset, but I can't imagine doing that to anyone. Ruins their fun and my fun.

When you consider what happened with forgiveness at Nationals I think you'd come across pretty petty flying someone off the board over an alternate art Solo.

I've had a few opponents fly ships off the board, or forget their dial. I just let them keep the ship on or do whatever they would have wanted with the dial. No big deal, it's just a game. And I would rather win for a more substantial reason than my opponent doing a red maneuver when stressed, or misjudging distance and leaving the board.

I don't play this game to have fun!

In a casual setting I'd let my opponent off the hook. However, in a tounament setting, I will do everything I can to take advantage of my opponent's mistakes. So, in this example, I would select a move that would remove Jake as a threat ASAP. And I would expect my opponent to do the exact same thing to me if I had made the error of not placing a dial for a ship.

I'd fully expect my opponent in that situation to capitalize on my mistake and fly me off the board.

To counteract that point, if I picked a move that dropped at Range 1 of their ship, and I didn't have a return shot because I misjudged the move/action that brought me there, would that same opponent decide *not* to fire on me since it wouldn't be sporting because of my choice of moves and actions? No, I highly suspect they'd fire and blow me to bits.

I can see the dilemma. I too enjoy playing people at their best, but as you say the rules are clear. It's a tough one, but ultimately I'd have to ask myself how important is it to win? I suspect that is a different answer for everyone. I agree with the general intent of your decision and think you handled it admirably. I'm certain that not everyone would have made the same choice.

So in this spirit, just turning the dial to a random maneuver is also a solution (provided it isn't red in the case of stressed reds).

Overall, It is all case by case for me. If it is friendly, I'll pick a tweener - not real good, not real bad. If you have taken advantage of a mistake, I'll do the same. If it is the first mistake of the game and you are a nice guy, I'll likely take it easy on you. If it was for a championship or a deciding match, I'll fly you off the board if I can.

I have only ever encountered a situation close to this twice in competitive events, both were against new players, and I let them choose the maneuver they were going to take anyway. In a situation like that, with new players making a big mistake, do not see the point to punish them harshly for that.

Now, that being said, should this happen in a final table of a big competitive event, I would done as you had done, made that ship pay for the mistake by needing to spend two or more turns turning around. I would have felt dirty flying it off the board but I also want to best aid my efforts to winning the game.

I like your solution.

I can see the dilemma. I too enjoy playing people at their best, but as you say the rules are clear. It's a tough one, but ultimately I'd have to ask myself how important is it to win? I suspect that is a different answer for everyone. I agree with the general intent of your decision and think you handled it admirably. I'm certain that not everyone would have made the same choice.

So in this spirit, just turning the dial to a random maneuver is also a solution (provided it isn't red in the case of stressed reds).

Overall, It is all case by case for me. If it is friendly, I'll pick a tweener - not real good, not real bad. If you have taken advantage of a mistake, I'll do the same. If it is the first mistake of the game and you are a nice guy, I'll likely take it easy on you. If it was for a championship or a deciding match, I'll fly you off the board if I can.

I kind of like the leaving up to chance route and just spin the dial without looking at it and flip it over.

Good discussion as its a double edge sword. You would have felt like an idiot if you would have chosen a semi-decent maneuver and he beat you. If you would have flown him off the board, you would have felt like a ****. Personally I would rather feel like an idiot than a ****, fly casual.

Then I will continue to do it wrong. If someone flew my ship off the board I wouldn't be upset, but I can't imagine doing that to anyone. Ruins their fun and my fun.

When you consider what happened with forgiveness at Nationals I think you'd come across pretty petty flying someone off the board over an alternate art Solo.

You wouldn't be upset, you'd just resort to name-calling. Got it.

They made a play mistake. Would you let them change their dial if they picked the three right turn instead of a left, and ended up going off the board? If they picked a maneuver that left them without a shot, rather than the one that let them kill one of your ships? If they misjudged and landed themselves on a rock would you declare a truce for that turn and the next, taking no shots until they get off it and recover their actions? If they chose to use their last attack as time expired in the round to take a shot at a token-loaded Fel at range 3 over a rock, rather than at the shuttle right in front of them that had 1 HP left, whose destruction would give them the win? Would holding them to any of that be "petty" too?

Players should be expected to live with their mistakes in a game. Play your best, and own it. I gave away one of the most incredible comebacks I've ever had in a tournament by picking a red while I was already stressed. As soon as I picked up the dial, I knew I had lost. It never occurred to me that my opponent would do anything but send Turr right off the board, because I owned my mistake and everything it meant.

Whatever mistakes you choose to give to your opponent is entirely up to you, but the name-calling is entirely inappropriate. Everyone has a line for what they consider acceptable forgiveness for mistakes - even you - and the fact that someone draws it at a different place than you do does not make you a better person.

In reference to them turning the wrong way, yea. I have allowed them to correct such mistakes on more than one occasion. Heck I've even let a few newer players scoot ships back onto the table after just barely flying off so that the game keeps going. I don't get that many opportunities to play, tournament or otherwise. And a game that effectively ends in turn 2 because of a simple error isn't really fun for anyone, especially not me.

There is a difference between a mistake and a poor decision. Winning against one of them can be fun. Winning against the other is not.

I probably wouldn't call someone petty, but a LOT of people would if you publicly blocked an obvious error(again, completely different than a poor decision) that had a game-ending effect.

In reference to them turning the wrong way, yea. I have allowed them to correct such mistakes on more than one occasion.

If you're teaching someone or just playing for fun that's fine. But in a tournament you're actually cheating by doing this. You're also effecting the outcome of the whole tournament by doing so because you're changing the MoV.

And a game that effectively ends in turn 2 because of a simple error isn't really fun for anyone, especially not me.

Please stop speaking for anyone but yourself.

Myself I have no issue with games that end that quickly, because either we'll reset and play again and get another game in. Or else that means I have more time between matches to get a drink or just relax.

but a LOT of people would if you publicly blocked an obvious error(again, completely different than a poor decision) that had a game-ending effect.

Anyone who does that is a poor sport, because they're upset that someone played by the rules, rather then their own opinion on how the game should be played. Letting someone fix a mistake may be in some cases good sportsmanship, but not doing so is never poor sportsmanship.

And again in a tournament doing so can actually be cheating and impact everyone else at the event. Is it really fair to see someone get knocked out of the final 4 because you decided to let someone get away with something?

Were there prizes? I might have flown him off the table if there were prizes. As I see it tournaments are about winning (within reason), that's why people pick "competitive" lists rather than "ooh, this sounds fun" lists, and that means being strict. Seems no different from letting him off with any other mistake, such as if he misjudged a distance and flew a ship a fraction off the edge himself - in a casual I'd let it fly, in a tournament I might not.

It depends if he's made any other mistakes that I've let him get away with. Usually I'll be lenient once or twice, say with peple forgetting to place tokens, but after a couple of times I get strict.

It also depends how whether I think I'm gonna lose if I let him get away with it