I would like to suggest this card as a modification slot:
Extra Munitions:
When you use the effect of a [missle], [torpedo], or [bomb] upgrade, you may discard this card instead of the upgrade.
I would think 2- 3 points would be appropriate. This way it would lessen the cost of the more expensive ordnance, while still keeping the cheaper stuff in line.
Let me know what you think 
Yes!
2 points should do it nicely. My only beef is that it's not so good on multi ordnance ships like the TIE bomber. So likely i can see it being used more on an A-wing with proton rockets than a TIE bomber or Y-wing.
Edited by DariusAPBYes!
2 points should do it nicely. My only beef is that it's not so good on multi ordnance ships like the TIE bomber. So likely i can see it being used more on an A-wing with proton rockets than a TIE bomber or Y-wing.
I dunno, I think it will work great with both. Equip a bomb and a missle/torpedo, then you get a card that can fill in as either. It is a lot more flexible that way.
Yes!
2 points should do it nicely. My only beef is that it's not so good on multi ordnance ships like the TIE bomber. So likely i can see it being used more on an A-wing with proton rockets than a TIE bomber or Y-wing.
I dunno, I think it will work great with both. Equip a bomb and a missle/torpedo, then you get a card that can fill in as either. It is a lot more flexible that way.
True. What about making this card fit into an existing missile or torp slot, allowing another of the same slot to use it - for only 1 point. That way it doesn't quite muscle in on munitions failsafe, and forces extra of same missile. cheaper missiles for less versatility.
I like it. Would help with Ordinance that's for sure. However, it also eliminates the need for 1pt munitions failsafe. Unless you make it 3 points.
Yes!
2 points should do it nicely. My only beef is that it's not so good on multi ordnance ships like the TIE bomber. So likely i can see it being used more on an A-wing with proton rockets than a TIE bomber or Y-wing.
I dunno, I think it will work great with both. Equip a bomb and a missle/torpedo, then you get a card that can fill in as either. It is a lot more flexible that way.
True. What about making this card fit into an existing missile or torp slot, allowing another of the same slot to use it - for only 1 point. That way it doesn't quite muscle in on munitions failsafe, and forces extra of same missile. cheaper missiles for less versatility.
Basically, your saying for 1 or 2 extra points you get 2 of the same ordiance, in one slot.
So this card would be a new type of upgrade:
Extra Ordinance
Placed on purchased Bomb, Missile or Torpedo card.
2 pts.
When you fire an ordinance discard this card instead of the ordinance card.
So this way you can get an extra ordinance card without using a Modification slot. I could see it, but it doesn't make sense. Since really you are modifying the ship.
Another option would be.
Pick any exisiting upgrade (Except EPT) and replace it with this card. That would make more sense since you are removing and upgrade to make room for it.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
I like it. Would help with Ordinance that's for sure. However, it also eliminates the need for 1pt munitions failsafe. Unless you make it 3 points.
I agree, 3 seems like a big enough difference that it would be a consideration instead of an auto include. Other differences:
Example:
2 bandits with munitions failsafe and 4 point missles = 34 points and you get unlimited shots until you get 2 hits.
Gamma with extra munitions and 2 4 point missles = 29 (or 28) points and you get three chances to hit, though each could possibly hit or all three could miss.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
Munitions failsafe is why I made extra munitions a modification. This way you have to make a call between them. Being able to use both would be over powered. Also it would be really cumbersome to write a card that has multiple possible slot requirements.
True enough. It'd need to be 3 points in that case though. This makes it actually more expensive than some ordnance.
Edited by DariusAPBTrue enough. It'd need to be 3 points in that case though. This makes it actually more expensive than some ordnance.
Yep, which would make the consideration of munitions failsafe even more important.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
Oh also, if we do that it would remove its use to tie advanced, which I was hoping would get a little boost from this. Since now they get 2 missle attacks, their defenses come in more handy.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
Oh also, if we do that it would remove its use to tie advanced, which I was hoping would get a little boost from this. Since now they get 2 missle attacks, their defenses come in more handy.
It does. But when it comes to missile platforms, the Bombers are more in need of love than the Advanced. The problem with ordnance is that it's overcosted per shot, not that A-wings/advanced only get one.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
Oh also, if we do that it would remove its use to tie advanced, which I was hoping would get a little boost from this. Since now they get 2 missle attacks, their defenses come in more handy.
It does. But when it comes to missile platforms, the Bombers are more in need of love than the Advanced. The problem with ordnance is that it's overcosted per shot, not that A-wings/advanced only get one.
Right, but this would make the higher cost ones cheaper per shot for all ships, unless you are using 2 point ordinance.
Ehh. I see it more as loading up missiles/torps rather than just carrying normal. putting it in a warhead slot would allow munitions failsafe to still be a thing - basically it'd be a decent missile platform without being overcosted.
Oh also, if we do that it would remove its use to tie advanced, which I was hoping would get a little boost from this. Since now they get 2 missle attacks, their defenses come in more handy.
It does. But when it comes to missile platforms, the Bombers are more in need of love than the Advanced. The problem with ordnance is that it's overcosted per shot, not that A-wings/advanced only get one.
Right, but this would make the higher cost ones cheaper per shot for all ships, unless you are using 2 point ordinance.
Which is why I prefer my method of slapping it in a warhead slot to dupe an existing card. That way, it's only usable on ships with 2 slots or more.
Edited by DariusAPBIt occurs to me that both cards are viable. One as a modification, and one as a warhead. Or. one as mod, one as torp one as mis.
As a guy who owns 5 bombers I welcome any and all buffs to ordinance.
Yes!
2 points should do it nicely. My only beef is that it's not so good on multi ordnance ships like the TIE bomber. So likely i can see it being used more on an A-wing with proton rockets than a TIE bomber or Y-wing.
That's kind of the thing. Many of those ships (specifically the Tie Bomber) that is the only thing they got going for them is that they can double up on a single munition upgrade. Also I am concern with a little of the word confusion that could come up with a card text like this. How would it work with say munitions failure critical ship damage? I'm sure one can come up with an easy FAQ statement but in reality you want to put out as little on the errata/FAQ as possible and have majority of the rules found on the cards and the core rule set.
What is needed is both a missile and a torpedo upgrade that is slightly better but not so powerful it becomes an instant "I win" button. They did a good job with munition failsafe taking out the risk of wiffing a roll that is always present with one time attack cards. I can't see how you cannot justify the 1 extra point even on something like Advanced Proton Torpedoes which already cost a whopping 6 points for munitions (that's half a Tie Fighter).
If used right, that APT will take a 12 point tie fighter out 9 times out of 10. But yes, Something needs to be done to balance ordnance back into the realms of usability.
If used right, that APT will take a 12 point tie fighter out 9 times out of 10. But yes, Something needs to be done to balance ordnance back into the realms of usability.
In order to make that APT work properly you need more then a 12 point tie fighter is worth.
That's true too. But it can surely be assumed the carrying ship can do more than just launch warheads. Additionally we make the assumption that it will be fired at a 12 point tie. Who would do that?
a 29 point soontir fel however...
Edited by DariusAPBThat's true too. But it can surely be assumed the carrying ship can do more than just launch warheads. Additionally we make the assumption that it will be fired at a 12 point tie. Who would do that?
a 29 point soontir fel however...
Soontir won't stop in range 1 within the firing arc of a ship with APT, TL on him and focus.
I like the idea but I don't think it addresses the main issue with using ordnance.
One of the big problems as I see it with ordnance, is that you generally want to put it on low PS ships, but low PS ships often struggle to gain the TL needed to fire it - so it doesn't matter if you're carrying an upgrade that gives you a second missile, or gives you a second shot if you miss, if you're unlikely to get even one shot off in the first place - you're still wasting your points either way
One idea I've heard is to do away with the requirement for TL altogether - kind of makes sense thematically ( Luke you've switched off your targeting computer), and although it messes up the homing missile - I'd take one "ruined" piece of ordinance in exchange for fixing all the rest. The downside is that it's going to require rather a lot of re-wording on cards etc.
A slightly more elegant idea might be to introduce an Auto-Lock or Missile Lock type upgrade which treats all ordnance as if it already has a TL - perhaps balance it by making it available to ships of PS4 or lower
Edited by Funkleton
That's true too. But it can surely be assumed the carrying ship can do more than just launch warheads. Additionally we make the assumption that it will be fired at a 12 point tie. Who would do that?
a 29 point soontir fel however...
Soontir won't stop in range 1 within the firing arc of a ship with APT, TL on him and focus.
We're getting into the theoretical and hypothetical here. It's plausible that it can happen and that should be enough. Also isn't there a pilot card that can make a range increase or decrease by 1?
6 points IS too much for ANY warhead. I won't disagree with that. If I did, i wouldn't be trying to think of ways to buff ordnance now would I? At any rate, an APT fired at a target will do huge damage assuming focus and TL (and why fire without focus?. If it doesn't instakill a ship, it'll do enough damage for something like an academy pilot or A-wing (or sometimes hilariously an asteroid) to finish off.
Maybe the buff to warheads would be a generic range increase? Let's go back to X-wing and TIE Fighter, and the entire videogame series for a second.
Warhead effective range: - capital ships. 6K - in alliance you were required to dumbfire so that range either dropped or remained depending on several circumstances.
Turbolaser range: ... 4Kish.. ineffective against fighters entirely though. You only ever saw this in Alliance, and in cutscenes. (XVTBOP i am looking at you).
Warhead VS starfighter range: 1.5K. Torps would never hit a target unless it's a slow target point blank, or fired standoff against something that didn't turn. CM's and ACM's however were quite versatile.
Laser (supercharged)vs starfighter range: 1.5K. Effective range depends on position and target, from 1.5k to jousting to maybe .75
when the laser banks were not supercharged for whatever reason, the range decreased a bit if I recall.
So maybe something that allows warheads access to range 4, as well as giving them if anything a bonus to hit dice for that range (allows a good solid lock) might be an answer.
I can see why it wouldn't be, FFG don't want non huge ships having that range ruler but ordnance needs something.
You cannot compare the distances in computer games with those on a board game in this scale.
Take you game mat, place a ship in the middle and a second in the distance of 1,5 klicks of the first one, considered the correct scale.
Notice where the ship would be.
Happy gaming!
And yes there is Rhymer. Rhymers ability cost 5 points. This would make an APT cost 11 points + PTL = 14 points for a single 5 point shot. Horray! And with luck your 12 point Tie Fighter manages to get 3 evades. Hoorayy!!!