Okay. I've tried a building a few lists for practice and playing with them a lot to get familiar with them. They don't really work. Sometimes, its okay, but mostly its just that something established would have done it better.

This is really depressing.

Tried these lists:

Corran VI FCS R7T1 Hull 54

Airen VI 20

3 Bandits 36

100

Soontir PTL Hull TC RG-title 35

Vessery Outmaneuver (tried Proton Rockets too, doesn't help) 38

Yorr FCS Intel 27

100

Intel is totally not worth it. Even against the Falcon and having ships that move after it. Its funny. You would think it helps... but 90% it just doesn't. I'd have rather had the initiative bid for 1 point.

Here's my very righteous rant: Falcon is BS. =(

Played against a player who was playing his second ever game, didn't know most of the rules or cards, and landed on rocks more than I did. He still won by a large margin.

I even rolled well, (I HAD LUCK!) and it didn't really matter. I probably should have made a crazy turn away with my shuttle at one point to make room for the Defender to 4k around and chase the Falcon, but other than that, it was a crapshoot.

Corran VI AdvS r2d2

2 x blue

bandit

Similar to your first list, but it can deal with just about any list, especially Falcons.

gets even worse once Lando Crew hits the shelf. Friend of mine rolled double evades on Lando, PTL into MF title evade, and has C3P0 onboard. Even my HLC couldnt do anything against 3-4 confirmed evades per turn

its not easy to beat the Falcon. i know this all too well as iv been testing Fat Han for a tourney. for imperials id start at a base of something like 5x Academy pilot (40pts left) and then go with a 3 attack dice ship like BH or defender, or even name phantom with tricks like rebel captive and VI

Falcons are tough, no two ways about it. Almost everyone struggles against them, so you're not alone.

First of all, I highly recommend not teaching new players with upgraded YT-1300s. Getting them hooked with one as a demo, maybe, but try to wean them off of it as soon as possible (my teaching games are generic small ships only). It probably won't help them learn how to fly anything else, and meanwhile you'll get frustrated by continually coming up against the toughest ship in the game. Especially if you're talking about Han Solo with Luke Skywalker and C-3PO, as that loadout can fight at full effectiveness without any actions whatsoever.

As for how to fight them, it's really all about firing arcs and practice. Center your ships on a point just beyond Range 1 directly ahead of its current location, where the end of a 3-speed Straight template would be (that should keep all of its possible maneuvers inside your firing arcs). If one of your ships is very heavily damaged, use it to block them, concentrating on any maneuvers that would let them escape your firing arcs. This blocking is doubly important when dealing with Engine Upgrade.

Some ships and upgrades that are useful against them are (in no particular order):

- Fire Control System (great action economy against tough enemy ships)

- Cluster Missiles (solid against low-AGI ships, especially when you have access to re-rolls)

- "Backstabber" (he'll almost always get an extra attack die)

- "Dark Curse" (Han Solo's pilot ability is useless against him)

- R3-A2 (shuts down various actions, makes them more predictable)

- Outmaneuver (you'll almost always ignore their defense with that attack)

- Arvel Crynyd (he can block them and still attack, although you'll likely only be able to pull this off once)

- Generic Pilots (Han Solo will have higher Pilot Skill anyways, more ships means more attacks)

- Ion Pulse Missiles (ionizes them immediately, you also can keep the target lock for an attack next turn)

- Intimidation, once the VT-49 comes out (ignores all of their defense that turn)

Thanks for the tips guys.

I might try TastetheRainbow's list for a little bit. Seems fun and competitive. Why not. ^^ Thoug, I'm gonna take FCS I think. How much have you found ADv Sen to be useful?

He's new, but he doesn't play often. I told him to get an E-wing. and I helped him a lot with using boost to avoid my arcs... so he learned a lot this time.

Besides, our disparity would have made it a dull game if he was using normal ships.

Trust me I know. I've been posting tons of times to help new players. The 24 no uniques x 2 (48) lists are my idea.

Yes. I loaded my Shuttle with FCS. Vs Falcon it is good. Makes that attack nearly always 2 damage through.

I tried outmaneuver. It doesn't help that much. Really, if you're attacking the Falcon a lot all that outmanevuer does it stop an evade 3/8s of the time. Not good enough.

I'd rather have Proton Rockets but I can't get Vessery in range enough.

I'd rather have Proton Rockets but I can't get Vessery in range enough.

If you're a fan of Vessery, I have just two words for you:

Cluster. Missiles.

I ran him with TIE Fighters and a Bomber at a tournament yesterday, and if you can trigger his special ability it will tear enemy ships apart!

ergh. the 4 point cost though. And the target lock requirement.

Its really weird. Honestly... Intel agent should be really really good. Especially on my list where I can BR the Defender and BR and Boost the Interceptor. Just nope. Terrible.

gets even worse once Lando Crew hits the shelf. Friend of mine rolled double evades on Lando, PTL into MF title evade, and has C3P0 onboard. Even my HLC couldnt do anything against 3-4 confirmed evades per turn

Block the Falcon. Then he can't use Lando, MF title or PtL. He's dropping a lot of points into making it tough but nothing on it's offensive capabilities. If you're blocking him regularly, he'll soon drop.

gets even worse once Lando Crew hits the shelf. Friend of mine rolled double evades on Lando, PTL into MF title evade, and has C3P0 onboard. Even my HLC couldnt do anything against 3-4 confirmed evades per turn

Block the Falcon. Then he can't use Lando, MF title or PtL. He's dropping a lot of points into making it tough but nothing on it's offensive capabilities. If you're blocking him regularly, he'll soon drop.

much easier said than done

Urgh. I don't really feel like playing some tie swarm thing that loses a tie each turn too.

Outmaneuver is better than you think. it is one less dice for him, but it also cuts C3pO out of the loop. If you roll no dice you cant guess.

so how about something like...

Col Vessery (35)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

99pts

its durable. 13 shields. 13 hull.

double gunner laughs at C3-PO and deals consistent damage

FCS sets up Vessery's free target locks after the first round of fire.

Shuttles with EU are surprisingly fast and can get into an early flanking position and boost out of trouble if they need to.

u still have 1pt for maybe Determination on Vessery or Intel Agent on a shuttle or just stay at 99 for an initiative bid versus 100pt rebel lists.

Outmaneuver is better than you think. it is one less dice for him, but it also cuts C3pO out of the loop. If you roll no dice you cant guess.

I really dont know why people think this. It only cuts c3po out if every single one of your attacks each turn has outmaneuver. otherwise he just waits until the next attack to use c3po.

I dont just think it. I know it. I've tried it personally.

so how about something like...

Col Vessery (35)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

99pts

its durable. 13 shields. 13 hull.

double gunner laughs at C3-PO and deals consistent damage

FCS sets up Vessery's free target locks after the first round of fire.

Shuttles with EU are surprisingly fast and can get into an early flanking position and boost out of trouble if they need to.

u still have 1pt for maybe Determination on Vessery or Intel Agent on a shuttle or just stay at 99 for an initiative bid versus 100pt rebel lists.

I think this dies a horrible death to Phantoms.

so how about something like...

Col Vessery (35)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

99pts

its durable. 13 shields. 13 hull.

double gunner laughs at C3-PO and deals consistent damage

FCS sets up Vessery's free target locks after the first round of fire.

Shuttles with EU are surprisingly fast and can get into an early flanking position and boost out of trouble if they need to.

u still have 1pt for maybe Determination on Vessery or Intel Agent on a shuttle or just stay at 99 for an initiative bid versus 100pt rebel lists.

Adrenaline Rush is very useful on Defenders due to that hard turn 1

so how about something like...

Col Vessery (35)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

99pts

its durable. 13 shields. 13 hull.

double gunner laughs at C3-PO and deals consistent damage

FCS sets up Vessery's free target locks after the first round of fire.

Shuttles with EU are surprisingly fast and can get into an early flanking position and boost out of trouble if they need to.

u still have 1pt for maybe Determination on Vessery or Intel Agent on a shuttle or just stay at 99 for an initiative bid versus 100pt rebel lists.

I think this dies a horrible death to Phantoms.

haha. ur probably right but u cant have ur cake and eat it too. Pick ur poison. Falcon or Phantom. If there was a list that beat both, ppl would be playing it.

outmaneuvre against a fat falcon is only useful if you have it on every ship because then he'll just use it to block one damage somewhere else in your attack list.

so how about something like...

Col Vessery (35)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade (32)

99pts

its durable. 13 shields. 13 hull.

double gunner laughs at C3-PO and deals consistent damage

FCS sets up Vessery's free target locks after the first round of fire.

Shuttles with EU are surprisingly fast and can get into an early flanking position and boost out of trouble if they need to.

u still have 1pt for maybe Determination on Vessery or Intel Agent on a shuttle or just stay at 99 for an initiative bid versus 100pt rebel lists.

I think this dies a horrible death to Phantoms.

haha. ur probably right but u cant have ur cake and eat it too. Pick ur poison. Falcon or Phantom. If there was a list that beat both, ppl would be playing it.

There is a list that consistently beats both. It would be another ACD Phantom or Falcon list

Okay. so. What do you think of my build then? Reposted here:

ur rebel list looks interesting. im not sold on the upgrades u have. R7-T1 seems a bit situation (i havent played it but im thinking its not going to be as useful as you think. I can see what ur thinking with Cracken supporting with a free action but thats locking him in as wingman ad it loses its effectiveness once Cracken is down)

id consider going with R2-D2 and try and find room for shield upgrade on Horan. Something like...

Brown Bomber.. Do you not think that the higher PS is neccessary? I think that's the main thing against the Phantoms.

Brown Bomber.. Do you not think that the higher PS is neccessary? I think that's the main thing against the Phantoms.

it will help. i havent played much against phantoms but having a higher PS def helps. depends how many phantoms in ur meta. maybe drop the Shield Upgrade and add VI to Cracken and Horan?

ur at 98pts so could upgrade 2 of ur bandits to talas.

Give it a try too. I thought it would go well. But its not.

The phantom match up is harder.

Funny Blail thinks Intel Agent isn't worth it. After playing my Echo+BH+doomshuttle list for a while against ps9+ ships like Whisper, Han, Soontir, Wedge with engine, Wes with VI AND engine, and others, i LOVE intel agent enough to take 2 of them in my list to Worlds.

Granted, low ps lists it's completely wasted, but for 2 points, the ability to see up to 2 dials against the meta of ps9+ lists is invaluable for ships like Echo.