There was a video where the designer out right said that the TIEs were designed to be one shot under "ideal" conditions, not super common.

One thing that I noticed is that TIE/Fighters have 3 hull. I always felt them more fragile than that. I'd have given them 2 (again, in keeping with the X-wing series of games). It would also massively fix the swarm is king problem.

Yea if the stats were more like the games, I think the core ships would be something like this:

Tie Fighter: 2 Hull

Tie Advanced: 2 Hull, 4 Shields

Tie Bomber: 5 Hull

Tie Interceptor: 2 Hull

X-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

Y-Wing: 4 Hull, 3 Shields

A-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

B-Wing: 6 Hull, 5 Shields

With 2 hull a basic Tie Fighter would cost less then 10 points. Do you want to play 100 point standard games with about 12 Tie Fighters on the table?

One thing that I noticed is that TIE/Fighters have 3 hull. I always felt them more fragile than that. I'd have given them 2 (again, in keeping with the X-wing series of games). It would also massively fix the swarm is king problem.

Yea if the stats were more like the games, I think the core ships would be something like this:

Tie Fighter: 2 Hull

Tie Advanced: 2 Hull, 4 Shields

Tie Bomber: 5 Hull

Tie Interceptor: 2 Hull

X-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

Y-Wing: 4 Hull, 3 Shields

A-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

B-Wing: 6 Hull, 5 Shields

With 2 hull a basic Tie Fighter would cost less then 10 points. Do you want to play 100 point standard games with about 12 Tie Fighters on the table?

...yes?

TIEs would die in one shot a lot more. If you want jousting values for how much this'd hurt the TIE I'm sure Juggler could provide them. They'd also probably be cheaper, which would mean nine TIE swarms. That, I think, has an awful lot to do with it.

Lorewise, personally I prefer them not being made of glass. They're cheap, light, low maintenance and not the toughest of ships, built to be mass produced on an unprecedented scale to patrol a galaxy rather than fight a conventional war. While they're not exactly Firespray durability and rely more on not being hit than on surviving hits it makes sense to me that with all the Empire's technology they wouldn't be total deathtraps. An unshielded ship especially is going to be made of reasonably sturdy stuff.

Lorewise they were considered to be deathtraps though?

One thing that I noticed is that TIE/Fighters have 3 hull. I always felt them more fragile than that. I'd have given them 2 (again, in keeping with the X-wing series of games). It would also massively fix the swarm is king problem.

Yea if the stats were more like the games, I think the core ships would be something like this:

Tie Fighter: 2 Hull

Tie Advanced: 2 Hull, 4 Shields

Tie Bomber: 5 Hull

Tie Interceptor: 2 Hull

X-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

Y-Wing: 4 Hull, 3 Shields

A-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

B-Wing: 6 Hull, 5 Shields

With 2 hull a basic Tie Fighter would cost less then 10 points. Do you want to play 100 point standard games with about 12 Tie Fighters on the table?

...yes?

So you'd manage about 5-7 rounds in the fimeframe of tourneys and other players would hate you for your time-consuming squad?

One thing that I noticed is that TIE/Fighters have 3 hull. I always felt them more fragile than that. I'd have given them 2 (again, in keeping with the X-wing series of games). It would also massively fix the swarm is king problem.

Yea if the stats were more like the games, I think the core ships would be something like this:

Tie Fighter: 2 Hull

Tie Advanced: 2 Hull, 4 Shields

Tie Bomber: 5 Hull

Tie Interceptor: 2 Hull

X-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

Y-Wing: 4 Hull, 3 Shields

A-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

B-Wing: 6 Hull, 5 Shields

With 2 hull a basic Tie Fighter would cost less then 10 points. Do you want to play 100 point standard games with about 12 Tie Fighters on the table?

...yes?

So you'd manage about 5-7 rounds in the fimeframe of tourneys and other players would hate you for your time-consuming squad?

Compared to how long other games go turnwise, managing another couple TIE's won't make that much difference. So yeah, sure.

One thing that I noticed is that TIE/Fighters have 3 hull. I always felt them more fragile than that. I'd have given them 2 (again, in keeping with the X-wing series of games). It would also massively fix the swarm is king problem.

Yea if the stats were more like the games, I think the core ships would be something like this:

Tie Fighter: 2 Hull

Tie Advanced: 2 Hull, 4 Shields

Tie Bomber: 5 Hull

Tie Interceptor: 2 Hull

X-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

Y-Wing: 4 Hull, 3 Shields

A-Wing: 2 Hull, 2 Shields

B-Wing: 6 Hull, 5 Shields

With 2 hull a basic Tie Fighter would cost less then 10 points. Do you want to play 100 point standard games with about 12 Tie Fighters on the table?

...yes?

So you'd manage about 5-7 rounds in the fimeframe of tourneys and other players would hate you for your time-consuming squad?

Compared to how long other games go turnwise, managing another couple TIE's won't make that much difference. So yeah, sure.

Have you ever played with or against a 8 tie swarm on a tourney?

Played as, played against. Yes. Sure it takes a bit longer sometimes. It's not that huge a deal.

If they were 2 hull, after the first 2 turns there would be a lot less anyway.

It's worth a playtest.

Actually FFG started with similar values, giving Tie Fighters 2-3-2-0 and X-Wings had an attack value of 4.

Those values we got are the balanced ones.

You can homebrew whatever you want. For me 8 Tie Fighters are enough.

And a Tie swarm vs. a Tie swarm on tournaments is just boring pain in the ass.

Actually FFG started with similar values, giving Tie Fighters 2-3-2-0 and X-Wings had an attack value of 4.

Those values we got are the balanced ones.

You can homebrew whatever you want. For me 8 Tie Fighters are enough.

And a Tie swarm vs. a Tie swarm on tournaments is just boring pain in the ass.

Exactly. Tie swarm IS a boring tactic, just like fat han, and let's be honest, any tactic that's repeated ad nauseum. I'm not disagreeing that the game we have currently is balanced. I like them how they are, but I'd like to test alternates to be more in keeping with lore.

Off the top my head....

1. No crew slot for Y-wing

2. No systems upgrade on A-wing

3. No barrel roll for A-wing

4. No rear arc on Lambda

5. Too many red turns on Tie Defender dial

6. Large ships with EU boosts further than small ships with EU

7. Most elite pilots die as easily as generic pilots

Of course I understand that most of the inaccuracies we see in the game are mostly there to provide a better gameplay experience but if the game were more fluff centric than some of these things need to be fixed.

So you want to make a boring taktic even more boring.

I can't stop you. Waste your time in a way that applies to your needs.

So you want to make a boring taktic even more boring.

I can't stop you. Waste your time in a way that applies to your needs.

I want to explore weaker, more fragile TIE's.

This makes exactly bugger all effect on what tactics i choose to use - or anyone else chooses to use. Not everyone will just tie swarm.. given how the TIE's might even quicker disappear off of the table it might make things more interesting. You don't know till you've tested it.

Of those only 4 and 5 seem like being untrue to lore.

The crew on the Y-wing is a gunner. For the turret.

Why would the A-wing have a systems upgrade? It's a cockpit and a couple of guns strapped to two giant engines.

Lack of Barrel Roll doesn't strike me as a lore inaccuracy unless you apply the same logic to every ship that's X-wing up in terms of maneuverability. Pretty sure you see X-wings do it in IV.

Lambda shuttle's lack of rear gun could be seen as an inaccuracy.

Red Defender dial flies in the face of lore, but let's be honest, the TIE fighter game's TIE defender was a bit ridiculous.

Large ships boost further doesn't sound like a lore inaccuracy.

An X-wing is an X-wing. Pilot skill gives you an information and shooting time advantage that helps keep you alive but Wedge and Luke's X-wings weren't some sort of superfighter: they're the same ships as the ones the rookiees fly.

So you want to make a boring taktic even more boring.

The TIE brick is boring, but TIE swarms are crazy fun when you throw formation to the wind.

I want to explore weaker, more fragile TIE's.

This makes exactly bugger all effect on what tactics i choose to use - or anyone else chooses to use. Not everyone will just tie swarm.. given how the TIE's might even quicker disappear off of the table it might make things more interesting. You don't know till you've tested it.

They'd die faster but they've still got 3 agility and they'd also now have 20-22 attack dice to throw around. The problem with weakening them is you end up with more of them and thus dial up their attack: oddly it makes one of the best ships in the game better. It would also make the TIE interceptor a very questionable investment.

The TIE Defender is a tricky one anyway. in lore it's gone from hyperfast, to super turny to can fire at 3 targets at a time to huge blind spot in the back to white K turn.

Let's just leave the trip alone and call it a day.

You forgot the energy management you know from computer games.

How about treating every single ship like the epic ships? This would be even more accurate.

You forgot the energy management you know from computer games.

How about treating every single ship like the epic ships? This would be even more accurate.

Comic sans for Sarcasm :-)

That is where it gets a bit too complicated, imagine the slowdown.

They'd die faster but they've still got 3 agility and they'd also now have 20-22 attack dice to throw around. The problem with weakening them is you end up with more of them and thus dial up their attack: oddly it makes one of the best ships in the game better. It would also make the TIE interceptor a very questionable investment.

That is probably why we have 3 hull ties at 12 points rather than 2 hull at 9/10.

You forgot the energy management you know from computer games.

How about treating every single ship like the epic ships? This would be even more accurate.

Comic sans for Sarcasm :-)

That is where it gets a bit too complicated, imagine the slowdown.

I thought you wanted to try out those things

You forgot the energy management you know from computer games.

How about treating every single ship like the epic ships? This would be even more accurate.

Comic sans for Sarcasm :-)

That is where it gets a bit too complicated, imagine the slowdown.

I thought you wanted to try out those things

There gets to a point where even I get too lazy. If it makes you feel better I did consider it, as recharging shields without an astromech is an interesting proposition. As is some kind of method to boost engine, even laser power/range. hmm...

Nah. It'd slow game down more than a 20 tie swarm and ideally to accommodate it would require significant rewriting,

3 possibilities: Firstly ELS is taken into concideration with the action, focus, etc. Secondly:

either a completely seperate token system showing shield str and laser tokens. That'll take too long.

Thirdly. Maybe a 2nd "action" type phase where you can choose lasers (+1 attack dice) shields (regen 1 shield token) or Engine (+1 evade token, or defense dice - adding a boost will mess up ships that already have boosts unless they can boost twice - but that's op).

Doable. But the first possibility is the most likely.

Of those only 4 and 5 seem like being untrue to lore.

The crew on the Y-wing is a gunner. For the turret.

Why would the A-wing have a systems upgrade? It's a cockpit and a couple of guns strapped to two giant engines.

Lack of Barrel Roll doesn't strike me as a lore inaccuracy unless you apply the same logic to every ship that's X-wing up in terms of maneuverability. Pretty sure you see X-wings do it in IV.

Lambda shuttle's lack of rear gun could be seen as an inaccuracy.

Red Defender dial flies in the face of lore, but let's be honest, the TIE fighter game's TIE defender was a bit ridiculous.

Large ships boost further doesn't sound like a lore inaccuracy.

An X-wing is an X-wing. Pilot skill gives you an information and shooting time advantage that helps keep you alive but Wedge and Luke's X-wings weren't some sort of superfighter: they're the same ships as the ones the rookiees fly.

That's an acceptable explanation for the Y-wing gunner.

The A-wing is commonly known to carry Sensor Jammers and other advance electronics for reconnaissance purposes. Its what they're known for. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the A-wing is not a good ship, it is especially after the buff from Rebel Aces but its just not quite the same ship as the one in SW lore. Also ditto on the barrel roll but the A-wing is a significantly more maneuverable ship and its suppose to be the Rebel's answer to the Tie Interceptor so its repositioning capabilities should at least mirror it counterpart. Again this is just personal preference.

Tie Defender is indeed OP in the pc games but giving it white 2-turns shouldn't push it to OP levels while still giving it a sense that its a highly maneuverable ship.

I guess the idea that large ships get more mileage out of boost compared to smaller lighter ship seems a little illogical to me whether it is according to lore or not.

I understand what you mean by all pilots using the same ships but not all pilots are the same. The more elite pilots should at least ,in my mind, have a better chance of survival on the field compared to a rookie due to the combat experience they have and having better knowledge of the craft they are flying. Yes they have unique pilot abilities(some of which are defensive) and most get access to EPTs but at the very least they should all have a way of surviving and unlucky turn or roll. Something like a one-time consumable token that grants a reroll on defense dice. This is one thing Armada did right by giving all unique Squadron pilots consumable defense tokens.

I wonder how you would even price a lore accurate B-wing. No attack normally, but 3 cannon slots to equip autoblaster, ion cannon, and HLC simultaneously.

Anyone ever notice how the picture on Anti-pursuit lasers shows a lambda blowing a tie fighter to bits?

I mean just saying, but I don't think that there were many lambdas shooting at tie fighters am I right?

Off the top my head....

1. No crew slot for Y-wing

2. No systems upgrade on A-wing

3. No barrel roll for A-wing

4. No rear arc on Lambda

5. Too many red turns on Tie Defender dial

6. Large ships with EU boosts further than small ships with EU

7. Most elite pilots die as easily as generic pilots

Of course I understand that most of the inaccuracies we see in the game are mostly there to provide a better gameplay experience but if the game were more fluff centric than some of these things need to be fixed.

Not to sound like I'm disrespecting someone else's opinion but here is how I look at it...

1. Don't need a CREW slot, as equipping it with a turret, includes a gunner who is solely occupied with operating the turret and not providing any other service or bonus. (While I use it quite often, I always felt that there was something a little "off" about the GUNNER Crew card).

2. Yup... should have had a SYSTEM slot (all arguments against it merely support my position, IMO)

3. Meh.. probably should have had it but I'm not dissatisfied, per se.

4. Major oversight (IMO). No "game balance" arguments hold water, it was just laziness, a desire to keep the Firespray's fire arcs "unique" or lack of creativity/imagination as to how to give the Lambda a rear arc without giving it firepower equivalent to the forward arc.

5. No opinion, outside of making an argument that the FFG version of the Defender is probably more reasonable than the OP monstrosity that it was in some computer games. (do miss the option for a fighter-scale tractor beam, though)

6. Yeah... that is a clunky artifact of the rules; perhaps Engine Upgrade should cost more for large ships or just be prohibited/limited by title cards.

7. Dead is Dead... what is your argument? How would having a hot shot "ace" pilot make their ship any less vulnerable to damage? Upgrades and Modifications (like Hull Upgrade, Shield Upgrade or Stealth) help, somewhat, here.