So I bought the basic game? What does everyone think I should by next?

Expansions, Monsters and characters?

Let me know.

Expansions and Plot decks/lieutenants. Get the monster packs last, skip the conversion kit unless you have descent 1E minis.

I would research and get at least one lieutenant pack that suits your playstyle. They are pretty inexpensive.

Speaking of expenses, I personally love the CK, especially if you want a bargain way to get a whole ton of interesting options for the OL and don't mind proxying the miniatures It is just a great value for how much you get.

The kobolds alone are worth the price of admission and force the heroes to adapt to their presence. Then you can counter their adaptation to play something else. Forcing them to spread themselves more thinly to handle all the things you can throw at them is a way to indirectly strengthen yourself by weakening them.

As for expansions, I think Nerekhall is the best one, so I'd get that if you only want one expansion. It has a huge campaign that has many interesting choices and is more well crafted than the original Shadow Rune campaign.

If you can afford a small box too, I highly recommend Manor of Ravens. It has some great theme and cool quests, as well as the incredible bandit monsters.

The OL also gets access to the raven familiar. I've found this thing indispensible in quest after quest and never let a campaign pass without picking it up right away.

That's not to say the heroes don't benefit from these choices too. Marshall is a really powerful warrior class, and the CK gives several great hero options too. You could also apply the Hero and Monster Collection changes to the ones that have been reprinted for better game balance.

_{My choice for the first thing to buy (this is assuming cost doesn't matter much) is Labyrnth of Ruin. It brings some very useful new monsters, four new heroes and also three very good classes (and one rubbish one).}

_{Importantly these classes are all very easy to play as well.}

_{I'd also say the monster/hero kits ARE worth buying and the first thing I bought was one of those. They expand the choices of the game without adding any complexity or make you feel like you're losing out because you're not able to play the campaigns. They have some really good heroes in too. I feel like people are quite negative about them because lots of people here have 1st edition.}

Eagletsi, T=there have been several threads in the last few weeks asking the question "what expansions should I get?" I recommend checking them out for some good suggestions.

Charmy, I understand your point about the conversion kit- it's a tremendous value when you consider oath of the outcast to be more expensive than the CK, but having an 1/8 of the monsters, and even less heroes. However, at least for me, the lack of minis is still a deal breaker. I don't have 1E- if I did, this would be a different answer- I bought the the CK because I wanted to have the option of using my Runewars hero minis with Descent. We used Jaes in one campaign. Since then, all of the choices have been 2nd edition heroes, and no one in my groups has put a CK monster into play (mostly due to lack of minis, but also because 2E now has as many monsters to choose from as the first edition did (more if you include the H&M packs.)

I have recently taken the CK expansion out of my Descent box (I keep all my expansions mixed usually) and have toyed with the idea of selling/ discarding it. The only reason I wouldn't is the off chance that someone might be nostalgic for a particular 1E hero. Sure, the CK is cheap- but if it doesn't contain anything you want to use, it's still a waste of money.

Great. I just got the Crown of Destiny pack on ebay. So is it worth getting the Conversion Kit even if you don't have 1st edition?

Also, What are the Lieutenant packs exactly?

Great. I just got the Crown of Destiny pack on ebay. So is it worth getting the Conversion Kit even if you don't have 1st edition?

Also, What are the Lieutenant packs exactly?

Some would say yes. I say no.

Lieutenant packs.

Well it depends, the first Conversion kit is only cards, no figures or tokens. If you get the Monster and Hero packs you get the cards and figures of the monsters/heroes highlighted. So if you do get the Conversion Kit then you need to consider how you will implement it as you play. Some monsters are easy to proxy, you can use Ettin figures for Giants or Trolls, monsters who have the same base size and numbers being placed works okay. Other than that Reaper's Bone line of miniatures are pretty cheap, getting a set of Kobolds from Reaper is cheaper than looking for the real thing on Ebay.

If you are willing to cough up the money and are lucky you can find someone on Ebay selling their first edition monster and hero figures. That is what I did, it cost me almost two hundred bucks but I am a big fan of the game and really have put those figures to use so I felt it was worth it.

Ok. So after reading the Heroes and Monsters packs they have the same cards as the first edition, but include models and other things too. So really, if I buy all heroes and monsters packs is there any other reason to by the Conversion Kit. Are their some monsters, characters, classes, in the kit that are not in the heroes and monsters packs?

Great. I just got the Crown of Destiny pack on ebay. So is it worth getting the Conversion Kit even if you don't have 1st edition?

Also, What are the Lieutenant packs exactly?

Some would say yes. I say no.

Lieutenant packs.

thanks Lieutenant packs look cool too! Good options for Overlords.

Ok. So after reading the Heroes and Monsters packs they have the same cards as the first edition, but include models and other things too. So really, if I by all heroes and monsters packs is there any other reason to by the Conversion Kit. Are their some monsters, characters, classes, in the kit that are not in the heroes and monsters packs?

Well the Conversion Kit and the Heroes and Monsters packs have some overlap, let me stress that SOME overlap. There have only been four Heroes and Monsters packs (I think, I haven't been buying them) so that means there has been 16 heroes and 12 monsters that have been released via that product (I think they come with four heroes and three monsters each). Remember this is, both the cards and the figures.

The Conversion Kit comes with 48 hero cards and 50 monster cards (looked it up online, I am at work and don't have my game supplies on hand), reminder here JUST the cards. No figures. The conversion pack is really designed for players who already own the first edition game to convert all their heroes and monster figures to the new second edition, to give them more incentive to convert and start purchasing the new edition.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Heroes and Monster packs have updated artwork, updated figures, and in some cases reworded or altered abilities of heroes and monsters. For example, here is the new and old versions of Jaes the Exile. The old version card is in the Conversion Pack, and the figure you see with it is not included in the conversion pack, it also looks different from the one you get in the Heroes and Monster pack (it matches the new art).

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent-second-ed/news/hero-and-monster-collections/crown-of-destiny/jaes-the-exile.jpg

http://glimmerpost.com/media/catalog/product/j/a/jaes_the_exile_1.jpg

But you can see how the wording is kinda different, art is updated to match the second ed scheme, and the figure is also updated.

I would say the Heroes and Monster packs are great for people who do not own the first edition monsters, but getting BOTH the conversion pack and the Heroes and Monster packs will leave you with some redundant hero and monster cards. I am not sure if Fantasy Flight plans to release Heroes and Monster packs to cover ALL first edition heroes and monsters, but that will take some time.

I personally got the conversion pack and bought the older figures for heroes and monsters off ebay for a pretty penny back when second edition was first released. So I am not really interested in the Heroes and Monster Packs other than maybe the quests they come with.

Modernman, your numbers are slightly deceiving, while your point is true. There are 12 monsters and 16 heroes currently included in hero and monster packs, and all of these are present in the conversion kit. The conversion kit had 48 heroes and 25 monsters (50 cards because 2 acts per monster.) So really, about half of the monsters and about a quarter of the heroes have already been released with minis in the hero and monster packs. It's possible that FFG will be releasing more/the rest in the future.

And currently the second edition (including all expansions except the conversion kit) has almost 40 monsters and also almost 40 heroes. That's not the 12 monsters, 8 heroes the game debuted with. At that point, the CK truly did expand the choices for all players.

Modernman, your numbers are slightly deceiving, while your point is true. There are 12 monsters and 16 heroes currently included in hero and monster packs, and all of these are present in the conversion kit. The conversion kit had 48 heroes and 25 monsters (50 cards because 2 acts per monster.) So really, about half of the monsters and about a quarter of the heroes have already been released with minis in the hero and monster packs. It's possible that FFG will be releasing more/the rest in the future.

Oh, good catch. I just looked it up online without even considering the Monsters had two cards each. Sorry about that.

IMO the order or importance should be based on budget and what options you have available.

Obviously the biggest bang for the buck are the big expansions (labyrinth and shadows) but they are the most expensive options and the biggest advantage that they give, to me, is a full campaign.

The smaller expansions (lair, trollfens and manor) give some decent options and the mini campaign can be played as part of a larger campaign or done as its own setting.

Lieutenant packs add flexibility to the overlord only and give only a 1 figure that you may not even use (if you buy Zachareth's you wont be using his agent card or his figure in more than 2-3 quests per full shadow rune campaign for example)

The hero and monster collections add a lot of figure options but little in the way of quests and no campaign of any type.

The conversion kit is like a hero and monster collection min maxed, loads of options nut no figures means that you either proxy (which some players like myself just cannot do) or play with what you can scrounge up via ebay/2nd hand sellers)

To start with, if you are the buyer and playing the overlord i strongly suggest that you look into the lieutenant packs.

Then look at what overlord decks you are likely to pick from and what play-style you like to use and buy 1 or 2 (for the shadow rune i liked eliza and alric farrow for the first 2 play throughs where things where reasonably simple in hit the big thing till it falls over, others get better as more strategies become used; boardgamegeek i believe has a detailed list of the cards included per deck)

Its undoubtedly a long process that relies on some solid background research but the overlord gets a LOT out of the LT pack and its worth looking through them.

After that i would say that the small boxes are a great pick, they give both sides more options and the mini campaign is quick enough to play out in only a few sessions and can be integrated into the main campaign through the rumor mechanic.

The big boxes are the best for choice and with the extra campaign are undoubtedly the most versatile - BUT if you are going to be playing the shadow rune then i wonder if you really need another campaign right away which for me is the big lure.

The hero and monster collections add a lot of choice - more heroes and monsters then a small expansion but there are no additional classes for heroes and only 2 rumor quests.

I would completely skip the conversion kit in all honesty - i bought it and all the associated 1st ed minis over time and how i wish i hadn't now -the hero and mosnter collections are going to be hella more expensive over time but on the whole the sculpts are way nicer and some of the heroes/monsters have had tweaks to edit them from the conversion kit original design anyway.

For me my priority list would be

1. One Lieutenant pack
2. One small expansion - manor of ravens or trollfens would be my pick
3. One hero and mosnter collection (any of the 3 available - wouldnt say any 1 is massively better than the other as there are useful things in each for both sides.
4. Big box expansion - labyrinth would be my choice for the volucrix reavers alone.

5. Conversion kit depending on your preference for proxies and immediate choice.

Obviously i would rejig this depending on some preferences, if you and your group love the game and are playing through a campaign quickly then the big box expansions jump to number 2 and the small expansions fall down to 4.

The conversion kit had amazing use and versatility at the launch of 2nd ed where a common annoyance was the lack of monsters to pick from but the range and expansions are now big enough, imo, to not need the CK at all.

IMO the order or importance should be based on budget and what options you have available.

Obviously the biggest bang for the buck are the big expansions (labyrinth and shadows) but they are the most expensive options and the biggest advantage that they give, to me, is a full campaign.

The smaller expansions (lair, trollfens and manor) give some decent options and the mini campaign can be played as part of a larger campaign or done as its own setting.

Lieutenant packs add flexibility to the overlord only and give only a 1 figure that you may not even use (if you buy Zachareth's you wont be using his agent card or his figure in more than 2-3 quests per full shadow rune campaign for example)

The hero and monster collections add a lot of figure options but little in the way of quests and no campaign of any type.

The conversion kit is like a hero and monster collection min maxed, loads of options nut no figures means that you either proxy (which some players like myself just cannot do) or play with what you can scrounge up via ebay/2nd hand sellers)

To start with, if you are the buyer and playing the overlord i strongly suggest that you look into the lieutenant packs.

Then look at what overlord decks you are likely to pick from and what play-style you like to use and buy 1 or 2 (for the shadow rune i liked eliza and alric farrow for the first 2 play throughs where things where reasonably simple in hit the big thing till it falls over, others get better as more strategies become used; boardgamegeek i believe has a detailed list of the cards included per deck)

Its undoubtedly a long process that relies on some solid background research but the overlord gets a LOT out of the LT pack and its worth looking through them.

After that i would say that the small boxes are a great pick, they give both sides more options and the mini campaign is quick enough to play out in only a few sessions and can be integrated into the main campaign through the rumor mechanic.

The big boxes are the best for choice and with the extra campaign are undoubtedly the most versatile - BUT if you are going to be playing the shadow rune then i wonder if you really need another campaign right away which for me is the big lure.

The hero and monster collections add a lot of choice - more heroes and monsters then a small expansion but there are no additional classes for heroes and only 2 rumor quests.

I would completely skip the conversion kit in all honesty - i bought it and all the associated 1st ed minis over time and how i wish i hadn't now -the hero and mosnter collections are going to be hella more expensive over time but on the whole the sculpts are way nicer and some of the heroes/monsters have had tweaks to edit them from the conversion kit original design anyway.

For me my priority list would be

1. One Lieutenant pack

2. One small expansion - manor of ravens or trollfens would be my pick

3. One hero and mosnter collection (any of the 3 available - wouldnt say any 1 is massively better than the other as there are useful things in each for both sides.

4. Big box expansion - labyrinth would be my choice for the volucrix reavers alone.

5. Conversion kit depending on your preference for proxies and immediate choice.

Obviously i would rejig this depending on some preferences, if you and your group love the game and are playing through a campaign quickly then the big box expansions jump to number 2 and the small expansions fall down to 4.

The conversion kit had amazing use and versatility at the launch of 2nd ed where a common annoyance was the lack of monsters to pick from but the range and expansions are now big enough, imo, to not need the CK at all.

Great Write Up! Thanks,

One Question, If I buy an expansion like manor or another, can I use the character with the base game too. Or would they only be usable in the expansion they came from?

One Question, If I buy an expansion like manor or another, can I use the character with the base game too. Or would they only be usable in the expansion they came from?

You can use the heroes from any set you buy with any other set within the game.

Great! Thanks, But are they more powerful than other heroes? Or balanced well

This thread on BGG: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1255720/ranking-classes-and-heroes-poll-recent-versions

might give you an idea of what some of the community believes are the dominant heroes/classes. As you can see, they are scattered all throughout the expansions, base game, conversion kit, etc.

Good options exist in just about every set.

Great! Thanks, But are they more powerful than other heroes? Or balanced well

For the most part new heroes are released in expansions that introduce new classes for their archetype and these heroes are sorta "intended" to be played as that class so they are designed to compliment that class more. In the end though its up to you the player to look at a hero and then look at their archetype class options and decide what combo works best.

Also each expansion comes with a new set of monsters that can be used in other campaigns as well, as long as they fit the monster trait requirements of quests. So the more expansions you get the more options and customization you will have as you play in any style, campaign, one-shot, co-op variant, etc.

Thanks everyone. I'm heading out to the store now. This is gonna be fun!

In regard to hero balance anything out of the conversion kit flails wildly from

'That is some serious bull**** overpowered hero stuff right there!" to "Why would you ever pick this character unless you were deliberately picking a poor choice' to the absolute awful ' I wouldn't even chose this character if i had to pick a bad character'

Again, another reason i feel skipping it is a wise decision this far into descents life.

By comparison the heroes in the expansions for D2 are by and large mostly comparable, some are a bit better than others, some are a little bit worse but not so much that they are unplayable. (A notable exception to this is Logan Lashley who gets a rather large amount of hate directed at him especially if he is a treasure hunter due to his very good hero feat and his exceptionally good heroic ability..)

A bigger consideration is the classes available as they can compliment or enhance a hero in a way that raw numbers may not.

I would say there are quite a few heroes even in the packs/expansions that are definitely just worse than others, it's not all that well balanced.

I would say there are quite a few heroes even in the packs/expansions that are definitely just worse than others, it's not all that well balanced.

Anyone that springs to mind?

There are very few situations where I would choose Ulma Grimstone over another healer. There aren't that many examples that spring to my mind.

I agree wholeheartedly Ulma is arguably a weaker choice due to the conditional nature of her hero abilities but they are equally conditionally an amazing victory boost with recycling stamina potions for race quests.

All said though her all round stats aren't terrible at all , good attributes and stamina 5 is nothing to sniff at (even if 8 health is a bit squishy)