If I am under the effect of though outer shells frist form and an effect goes off that forces me to draw cards what happens ?

The NO wins out over the YES. i.e. you don't draw cards.

I think the most extreme example would be something like Rock Howard (promo), which allows you to draw a card (and with static text) after your opponent plays a card. What would happen here (to my knowledge) is the 2 floating effects (one from the first form, and one from the character card) compete and the no refuses the Howard from drawing.

- dut

The general rule is that if you are under a card effect that prevents you from doing something, the game will not allow you to do that action if another card says you can. In short, "can't beats can."

In this case, Tough Outer Shell will prevent you from drawing cards during the combat phase no matter what the source. If the card tells you to draw cards such as Aquakinesis you will not be able to because ToS stops you from doing so.

dutpotd said:

...except that playing the First F: on Tough Outer Shell isn't playing a card, and thus doesn't interact with Rock Howard2's ability at all.

Tagrineth said:

That goes without saying, i.e. a form ability on a card that is not an action card being played into the card pool would not result in Rock drawing a card.

My attempted point was that after forming with TOS the playing of cards subsequent to, and until the effect of TOS runs out, will prevent the Rock Howard from drawing. At least, that is my understanding of the situation - please correct me if I am wrong.

- dut

A better example would be ***Terry***. Continous effect reads "At the end of your turn draw 2 cards". If TOS had been played then you don't draw the cards, even though you wouldn't normally have a choice.

ToS won't effect Terry's ability since it only stops drawing during the combat phase. Terry's draw happens during the end phase.

ok how does one go about card effects like Promo Talbain and Aquakineses in conjunction with TOS?

If a player is playing Both TOS and Aquakineses/Talbain do they get to say what effect resolves first? such as if TOS's effect was used the turn before then TOS's effect ending being is it then legal to resolve the effects of Talbain/Aqua? followed up by the reusing of TOS?

Also how does TOS work with BRT?

Promo Talbain's card make's its handsize equal to 9. Since drawing up to handsize is before the combat phase it is not affected by ToS.

If you played ToS in your last turn, it is perfectly fine to play Aquakenesis at the start of your combat phase; ToS expires at the very beginning of your turn. If you wish you may play ToS again after since Aquakenesis is not a form.

If ToS is in effect and a player plays BRT then the card is revealed from the top of the deck but then stays on top and neither player draws a card. In fact this combo is used to make sure that the check made will be equal to 0.

in short, floating effects must resolve before R's can be played to the same trigger.

So "at the start of your combat phase" the floating effect preventing draw from ToS fades, then the window open to play Aquakinesis and for your opponent to play things like white magic.

Zero Cross said:

I believe it was previously ruled that because TOS says: "players may not draw or add cards to THEIR hand during a combat phase", BRT's activater wouldn't draw because they are adding a card to their hand, but their opponent would because the activater is adding a card to their OPPONENT's hand. This is what I understand from a previous ruling. This would also work with antisocial and abelia's friendship to name a few.

BRT says each player draws 1 card. TOS says no drawing cards.