Does anyone have house rules for ordnance?

I always wondered about whether reloadable ordnance would really break the game that much. i.e. when you fire a missile or torpedo, you turn the card face down instead of discarding it. Then later you can spend a 'reload' action to turn it face up.

I suppose one could also jut try making it cheaper, but the reload seems more fun. It always seemed awkward that these ships can carry only one or two torpedos.

I have to admit that I play it as it is and do alright. I've won tournaments with ordenance. OK, not big ones, but still...

I find they have to be specific types. I like Concussion Missiles, Cluster Missiles, and Homing Missiles. These guys get their worth about 90% of the time.

Don't think of the shio as having only one torpedo. Injecting realistic ammo magazine sizes leads to other questions of realsim.. like, why do we only fight on a two dimensional plane. The ships are on space, so we can attack from any direction.

It is a mechanic meant to simulate finite weapons. If you want more accurate, and therefore more complicated, the roleplaying game fantasy flight puts out might be better.

I mean we can even put our shields to double front.

Perhaps treating the cards to represent a pivotal moment in a battle might be a better way of thinking of it.

Also, the rebels might be strapped for cash on only have a few torpedoes to go around.

Of course, if you want to load up an x-wing with 6 torpedoes, and pay for that, I'm okay with it. I won't stop you. I'll do a tie swarm versus a 50+ point ship.

Here are my House Rules. I haven't finished MathWinging missiles and Torpedoes, so for now I just made most of the basic ones 1 point cheaper.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122473-house-rules-technical-balance-fixes-for-casual-play/

I'm quite fond of Proton Rockets, after my TIE Advanced (yes, one of those) had an awesome one-shot with five hits against a A-Wing. Of course, having Jonus and a Focus token helped too...

Honestly I think a flat one point reduction on all ordinance (missiles and torpedoes) released before wave 4 & rebel transport wouldn't hurt a thing. FFG are improving their costing more recently, though.

As for what FFG can do to fix the old ordinance, I'm not sure--they kind of put themselves in a corner that's hard to get out of with the old torpedoes and missiles. They've released more cost efficient things already, so having some ship mod or title that affects all ordinance is pretty much out of the picture now.

I have to say that I think its mostly an issue of price. With TIE Fighters and Z-95s starting at 12, you need to ask yourself, do I put 3 protons on my ships or do I just get another ship?

My take is that all the Wave 1-3 Missiles/Torps need to be cheaper by about 1-2 points.

Based on the price of proton rockets, I am not sure why Adv PTs are anymore than 4 pts themselves. With two actions, the APT have a slightly higher chance of landing 5 hits but have more drawbacks if you only want to go with one action before you launch. The basing attack dice on agility I do not see as a drawback as people control which ships they put which missile on.

I'm with MJ on this one...a 1-2 point reducing would make them more playable. I am not so sure about competitive, but definitely more playable.

We covered this on the show recently, and we really think that between wave 1 and 2 and since then the deign and direction of the game has shifted away from ordinance. I think it is clear that in the beginning, FFG believed that ordinance was going to be a big deal. That is clear with pilots like Horton, Dutch, Garvin, and the entire TIE Advanced ship. However as the game came away from ordinance, these upgrades became over-costed in comparison to better, cheaper upgrades.

Overall, I think the whole ordinance system needs a face life and an errata to lower the points costs. Or, newer, cheaper ordinances like Flechette Torpedoes!

It's mostly cost but also the difficulty setting up the shot when you have to spend the TL to fire.

Game i played Wednesday friend took prokets on jake farrel, he only ended up within range one one time and because i'd k turned he was facing the wrong way total waste of points and it's kinda typical of any game either of us have taken ordnance.

I've found Proton Rockets hard to fire, too. It's difficult to get that close.

Concussion Missiles, though, are great! You can seriously hurt someone with them, especially if you are on the Imperial side. With either a few elite ships or several Tie Fighters flying around, you need something that can slam into someone and hurt them fast. Missiles are great at that. If you have some sort of boost or can get a TL with your Focus, you are doing good.

I've experimented with Homing Missile some. It's hard to squeeze those extra points, but I like it. Being able to not lose that TL is nice.

If you can get two missiles fired at the same target on the same turn, you usually see some damage. I'll admit I have a list that I've played that heavily features getting that off, but I've had good success with it.

I think Cluster Missiles on someone like Krassis is a no-brainer. You usually give him the HLC, but when a low agility ship gets close....BOOM!

Would I be happier if they were cheaper? YES! Do I still use them now? Sometimes....and I'm 90% happy with them. Also, I don't usually have a ship that dies with missiles on it as I do my utmost to fire them ASAP.

I'm with MJ on this one...a 1-2 point reducing would make them more playable. I am not so sure about competitive, but definitely more playable.

We covered this on the show recently, and we really think that between wave 1 and 2 and since then the deign and direction of the game has shifted away from ordinance. I think it is clear that in the beginning, FFG believed that ordinance was going to be a big deal. That is clear with pilots like Horton, Dutch, Garvin, and the entire TIE Advanced ship. However as the game came away from ordinance, these upgrades became over-costed in comparison to better, cheaper upgrades.

Overall, I think the whole ordinance system needs a face life and an errata to lower the points costs. Or, newer, cheaper ordinances like Flechette Torpedoes!

Yeah, getting a shot off with a Missile / Torpedo is certainly still better than taking a basic 2 attack shot instead, but I have to run some more numbers until I am convinced where the break-even point on value is at. You have to balance missiles and torpedoes for the ships that have 2 basic attack, since they get the biggest benefit of using them. One of the goals of my House Rules is to make Y-wings without Turrets viable.

It's mostly cost but also the difficulty setting up the shot when you have to spend the TL to fire.

Game i played Wednesday friend took prokets on jake farrel, he only ended up within range one one time and because i'd k turned he was facing the wrong way total waste of points and it's kinda typical of any game either of us have taken ordnance.

Yup! Needing to get a Target Lock on the specific ship that you are shooting at is a significant restriction, and should play into what the ordnance costs.

Concussion Missiles, though, are great! You can seriously hurt someone with them, especially if you are on the Imperial side. With either a few elite ships or several Tie Fighters flying around, you need something that can slam into someone and hurt them fast. Missiles are great at that. If you have some sort of boost or can get a TL with your Focus, you are doing good.

I actually like Concussion Missiles and Proton Torpedoes in principle, they have a lot of punch with their soft-focus/blank wording. But they're not quite worth 4 points.

I believe a point reduction won't ever happen since you can't do anything like a Chardan Refit for an upgrade. Munitions failsafe offers some help by making your ordinance count or you get it back, but it is a wasted point if you do hit on your first pass. Also, it seems their main use with flechette torps is completely against the spirit of the card. Personally I think they sould errata flechette to count as 'hitting' if its secondary ability is triggered.

To make ordinance more attractive, it would be nice to see a new modification called something like 'Enlarged Missile Bay' or 'Expanded Magazine'. These aren't quite elegant enough but you get the idea. It would be a 2pt upgrade that allowed missiles and torps to be discarded after their 2nd use. The strength of the upgrade would scale off the power of the ordinance purchased. It would be quite good on multi-slot ships and make them play more agressively. A Y-wing with flechette & proton with this mod could fire for most of the game. A Tie Bomber could be downright scary.

The only downside I see is that is downplays failsafe. It is still cheaper though. Potentially, my new upgrade could take up a missile or torp slot instead of being a modification. This would allow it to be paired with failsafe - but it would only allow multi-slot ships to use it.

Proton and Advanced Torpedo are both clearly overcosted by one point,and I feel the same about Autoblaster and Ion Cannon as well. Everything else feels pretty correct.

I believe a point reduction won't ever happen since you can't do anything like a Chardan Refit for an upgrade. Munitions failsafe offers some help by making your ordinance count or you get it back, but it is a wasted point if you do hit on your first pass. Also, it seems their main use with flechette torps is completely against the spirit of the card. Personally I think they sould errata flechette to count as 'hitting' if its secondary ability is triggered.

To make ordinance more attractive, it would be nice to see a new modification called something like 'Enlarged Missile Bay' or 'Expanded Magazine'. These aren't quite elegant enough but you get the idea. It would be a 2pt upgrade that allowed missiles and torps to be discarded after their 2nd use. The strength of the upgrade would scale off the power of the ordinance purchased. It would be quite good on multi-slot ships and make them play more agressively. A Y-wing with flechette & proton with this mod could fire for most of the game. A Tie Bomber could be downright scary.

The only downside I see is that is downplays failsafe. It is still cheaper though. Potentially, my new upgrade could take up a missile or torp slot instead of being a modification. This would allow it to be paired with failsafe - but it would only allow multi-slot ships to use it.

MF was a dumb card. To me it was a poor band aid to the problem that is ordnance in this game. It makes every ordnance 1 point more expensive, it takes up a modification slot, and it only works if your attack fails. Not a good solution at all. A card that would make ordnance cheaper or make taking a 2nd torp/missile not as costly would be ideal.

MF was a dumb card. To me it was a poor band aid to the problem that is ordnance in this game. It makes every ordnance 1 point more expensive, it takes up a modification slot, and it only works if your attack fails. Not a good solution at all. A card that would make ordnance cheaper or make taking a 2nd torp/missile not as costly would be ideal.

Yeah, I house ruled Munitions Failsafe as well, so you get your initial Target Lock back. It still does nothing to prevent you from completely whiffing your first attack though, which is the real problem.

Here's a quick one:

When an Ordinance card says to discard it, Tap the card instead (turn it 90 degrees to the right).

If an Ordinance card is already Tapped, discard it.

Munitions Failsafe prevents both Tapping and discarding in the event of a missed shot.

That is even better solution. No messing with points. Just change the core ordinance mechanics. I like it.

Cant use tap thats copyrighted or trademarked or something by WotC.

Cant use tap thats copyrighted or trademarked or something by WotC.

Wow, really? That's dumb. Then we'll call it something else. How about Turned, and you have the card upside-down before it is discarded for the sake of this argument?

I like the rotate the card idea. Essentially cuts price in half but is easy to modify the game instead of every card

I dont think making second shots with ordnance cheaper or easier is the solution.

The fix really needs to simply adresse the costs on earlier cards without over-powering flechettes and prockets

Something like "reduce cost by 1 of ordnance cards worth more than 3 points"

Alternatively, maybe a card like chardan refit but generalized - a card that takes up a missile or torpedo slot, but reduces the cost of a second missile or torpedo by 1 point. This would directly help bombers and y wings while leaving advanced and a wings with the already useful prockets.

The double attacks don't really help, for the same reason that Munitions Failsafe didn't help - more bad attacks are still bad attacks. Munitions Failsafe is almost a trap, tricking you into taking shots you shouldn't because you won't lose the card.

IMHO the problem is not in cost, but usability. If you're paying 4 points for a one-shot weapon, that weapon should deliver a considerably improved attack. Except that it doesn't. What you typically get are attacks that are even with, or even worse than, your standard attack.

What are some possible fixes? Change it so that no missile discards the target lock for the attack. This will screw with a few of them, but help guarantee that your attack can be efficient, which is the real problem with it. Simple, and done

IMHO the problem is not in cost, but usability. If you're paying 4 points for a one-shot weapon, that weapon should deliver a considerably improved attack. Except that it doesn't. What you typically get are attacks that are even with, or even worse than, your standard attack.

For ships with only 2 attack, the attacks are certainly better. But they are not worth 4 points.

How about something like this....

When attacking with a missile or torp....you may turn one focus or blank result into a hit result in addition to any wording on the card.

it would remove the real problem of ordinance. That is, you have to spend the TL just to fire it, and now you cannot modify your dice. It would make protons and concussions reasonable. Not sure if it would make proton rockets too good, but if it does, oh well, they cost 5 points on an a-wing, so they should be good.

***I also had the thought of not loosing the TL for any missile/torp. I like it, but it ruins homing missile.

but if it makes the rest usable i am on board. I think we have just about the same thought process on this one Buhallin

An alternative solution is simply to increase the attack dice offered by all ordinance by one.