so wout VI the odds of beating high PS phantom lists isnt good?

Han trumps all Phantoms builds other than Whisper with VI anyway. VI would only help Han if he was facing that one, very specific build.

Chewie benefits from VI if he's facing Echo, but VI won't help him against Echo with VI or any Whisper build.

If you know you'll be facing those specific ships, or if you're really, really, really scared of them, then take VI. If not, then you're much better off going for a damage modifying EPT.

Vi on han also helps with dealing with other high ps ships as well. Wedge comes to mind here, yes it's true wedge can take vi but that's a chance you take, but it also beats those ps8 taking vi and moving last is a big boon for han with eu as you can easy see which way to boost or if you know your only going to be shot at by one ship then the good old evade.

Han, Luke,MF title, c3po, eu, vi

2 talas

1 bandit

If you place the asteroids right a good player can easy thread the needle and stay out of arc. With this list I have only lost 1 game in well over 20 and never lost Han, that's tournament games too.

so wout VI the odds of beating high PS phantom lists isnt good?

It can still be done, for sure. But again, you're doing a lot less damage to the Phantom due to the re-cloak from ACD. In addition, with Whisper potentially moving after you, it increases the odds of her getting to range 1 and throwing 5 dice, which can be painful. It makes it a lot harder for you.

So since you've played it can you tell us how good is two phantoms in a build?

freaking sick once you have practiced with it thoroughly and are extremely familiar with Whisper & Echo positioning. Only way to defeat it is honestly VI Han.

Vi on han also helps with dealing with other high ps ships as well. Wedge comes to mind here, yes it's true wedge can take vi but that's a chance you take, but it also beats those ps8 taking vi and moving last is a big boon for han with eu as you can easy see which way to boost or if you know your only going to be shot at by one ship then the good old evade.

Han, Luke,MF title, c3po, eu, vi

2 talas

1 bandit

True, but other high PS pilots are not quite so problematic for Han as a VI Whisper - you can fly the Falcon without having to worry so much about lining up shots (that's what the 360 turret is there for), and instead concentrate on avoiding collisions and getting into a position where your opponent finds it difficult to get you back in firing arc, despite moving last. VI Whisper is an issue due to the Phantom's firepower, the ACD combination, the doubling up of evade dice (and the ridonkulous amount of focus tokens it can generate).

In the current age of PS bids I think VI is rapidly becoming a crutch for a lot of players, and in a lot of cases an unnecessary crutch as well. Like when you give Han VI and find out your opponent has taken a list with no PS higher than 8, for instance. You've paid points to give up your EPT slot for what, exactly? Insurance? Just in case you have to move first/shoot last? Is a 360, range 3, 3 attack dice turret with native rerolls not insurance enough?

I just feel the EPT is better used on something which is guaranteed to be useful - especially in a build like you've outlined above. If you're taking Engine Upgrade and the Falcon title, you'll get much more mileage out of Push the Limit for example. With VI, not only are you potentially wasting the EPT slot, but you're wasting at least one of those upgrades per turn as well.

This list went 9-0 at Georgia Regionals:

Chewbacca

++Push the Limit

++C-3PO

++Nien Nunb

++Title

Biggs

Tarn Mison

++R7 Astromech

And I have seen this one do quite well. Its similar but has some changes:

Chewbacca

++Push the Limit

++Kyle Katarn

++Nien Nunb

++Title

Biggs

Blue Squadron Pilot

++B-wing/E2

++Jan Ors

Both require careful following with Biggs to absorb and spread damage. They both promise two automatically cancelled damage per turn, in addition to a Focus or Target Lock for offense, and the second can still get an evade even if the Falcon clips a rock.

I think the problem with ptl on han is that it locks you into a green manoeuvre. Your taking gunner or luke to get that damage through, cos you sorta need it to, nien numb is not realy an option. If there were no phantoms than determination is the go so you don't lose your skills. Chewy is a different story because he can tank. But the thing that blows my mind is seeing bigs run with the falcon. You gotta keep it in range 1 of Biggs and yes bigs ability is cool but he still goes down like an Xwing and what makes fat Han so strong is the ability to fly anywhere and shoot. It just throws people off. I have had many of games where I have only taken a shield off Han lost 1 or 2 z95 and clean sweeped who I was playing as han was murdering them from out of arc.

Paul Heaver flew a Han/Biggs/Tala at Gencon with good results (although he got knocked out in the semis). He spoke about Han taking a round of fire and then bring Biggs in to take the next and that way you were guaranteed at least a little spread of hostile fire in the beginning.

What is the standard "Fat Hans" list, anyway?

so wout VI the odds of beating high PS phantom lists isnt good?

It can still be done, for sure. But again, you're doing a lot less damage to the Phantom due to the re-cloak from ACD. In addition, with Whisper potentially moving after you, it increases the odds of her getting to range 1 and throwing 5 dice, which can be painful. It makes it a lot harder for you.

No, no, no...

Han has PS9....................

Fat Han vs Whisper is favored even withouth VI. That's the point, VI just hardcounters Whisper, and is useful against other P9 pilots WHO do not require the iniative as whisper does.

Again, somebody who hasn't played the match up, tossing up advice.

Funny thing is, I've never played against a Fat Han at my local meetup. None of us big fans of the YT and only one guy has 3PO and doesn't care to use it.

I flew this today in a three round, small tourney and took first place. Two of my wins, I ended up with a 200 point MoV.

Alotta rerolls....

Han Solo

Determination

Luke Skywalker

C3PO

Engine Upgrade

Millennium Falcon

Ibitsam

Sensor Jammer

Elusiveness

E2/Kyle Kataran.

Wow, Jobes, that's positively filthy. I'll have to have my friend run that against me to feel the fury of the beard.

Han's Harem (poor name choice given the state of the board lately, but hey, I've been away for a while so I get a pass...)

Han Solo

Push The Limit

Jan Ors

Recon Specialist

Engine Upgrade

Millennium Flacon

Tala Squadron Pilot x 3

i personally like this 99pt list:

Han + Title + C3-PO + Gunner + Engine Upgrade + Determination

Tala Squadron

Tala Squadron

Tala Squadron

Its not my list, saw it ages ago on these forums and started testing it and have been really impressed with it.

I like determination on Han as insurance should they get through to your hull.

3 Headhunters as support is very good, theyr annoying as hell and not quite a big enough threat for them to go for early on which can allow them to fire away for good damage.

Im thinking i might downgrade the Headhunters to Bandits and add in an ion pulse missile for the mirror (Falcon lists are popular in my area) and PS4 seems a bit uneccesary in this current meta. Thoughts?

i went 4-0 with this squad in a small tourney. beat 2 swarms and 2 other imperials lists (defender/doomshuttle/firespray and shuttle/bomber/phantom).

2 matches i didnt lose a ship. didnt lose han in any of the games.

I really struggle against any Fat Falcon list - it is my bane. I know it's beatable, I've just not managed it yet. Brown_Bomber's list is horrible. To be honest our group rarely plays Falcons I don't think they suit our play styles but with our nationals coming up we're practicing against them.

I really struggle against any Fat Falcon list - it is my bane. I know it's beatable, I've just not managed it yet. Brown_Bomber's list is horrible. To be honest our group rarely plays Falcons I don't think they suit our play styles but with our nationals coming up we're practicing against them.

Han + Title + C3-PO + Gunner + Engine Upgrade + Determination

Tala Squadron

Tala Squadron

Tala Squadron

99pts.

Its such a strong list. a traditional swarm would stand up to it as would an ion control rebel list. 4 B-Wings would give it trouble as well. its support ships allow the falcon to adapt to what you throw at it as well. that starts in the setup. versus the 5 ship swarm i was careful to keep to the opposite side of the board and positioned my 3 Tala squadron centrally to catch his approaching ships broadside - if his plan was to race at the falcon (which it was) he was going to pay dearly with close/med range shots from my support ships.

If he had of switched to an early all out assault on my support ships he would hav been caught by Han flanking him... as it turned out Han a free shot (a timely boost up the left flank) on his academy pilot and put it one damage from death. Beating Han lists is not as simple as throwing everything at him... you want to time it so u can get a blocker in there to stop the evade action and then surround han with med and close range shots. Not a very nice situation to be in but a necessary gambit. You goal should be to get 9+ red dice on Han every round of fire. that will give u a decent chance to get thru those shields and chew into his hull.

Over here, we have a falcon list so strong, its locally named after the player who created it

Chewy / Predator / Luke / C3P0 / MF title / Engine Upgrade (or Assault Missile)

Tala Z95 x3

Come on - there's only one possible name for that build.

Let The Wookie Win!

I agree this is a hard list to beat. I have been practicing against it. I find imperials are a lot harder to build a list outside the swarm to be effective to win

I agree this is a hard list to beat. I have been practicing against it. I find imperials are a lot harder to build a list outside the swarm to be effective to win

this is what our playgroup is finding. a firespray adds some good choices but its a big target and not nearly as durable as a falcon that auto evades 2 hits every turn. phantom lists seem to be the best in terms of being competitive versus the field and have a winnable game versus fat han but theyr very skill intensive to run - u need to invest the time to master a list like that, not everyones cup of tea.

Yup. I'm completely not enjoying playing against the Falcon. Not fun in the slightest.

Yup. I'm completely not enjoying playing against the Falcon. Not fun in the slightest.

it can be beaten but u need to dedicate a decent chunk of your points to hating it if u wanna have a winnable matchup.

i have heard falcon lists called Beginner Lists because its easy to play and suitable for a beginning player who are prone to mistakes. I wont go that far but i will say that it is a very forgiving list which allows you to still play a less than perfect and still win the flip side of this is - in the hands of an expert player a falcon list becomes downright deadly the list will not fly itself, despite what people tell you, you still need a solid battle plan to maximize its strengths. if u have the falcon title its only good if u can keep your action and avoid flying into the teeth of their firepower.

Han with his reroll abilities are OP with gunner or Luke.

common attack goes... fire with 3-4 red dice... hmm, reroll all those red dice due to crappy 1st roll... 2 hits! defender rolls evade dice and evades... gunner triggers for another attack... fire again with 3-4 red dice... hmm reroll all red dice AGAIN due to crappy roll ... 3 hits! (ppl who have not played much against Han will gasp at this point and question the legality of all those rerolls) ...evade dice again... oh man look i rolled only 1 evade that time. thats a standrd attack without focus... han does not generally need focus to hit hard against a low agility target like shuttle or B-Wing you can expect to deal 3 damage MOST times you fire on it.

Yup. I'm completely not enjoying playing against the Falcon. Not fun in the slightest.

it can be beaten but u need to dedicate a decent chunk of your points to hating it if u wanna have a winnable matchup.

i have heard falcon lists called Beginner Lists because its easy to play and suitable for a beginning player who are prone to mistakes. I wont go that far but i will say that it is a very forgiving list which allows you to still play a less than perfect and still win the flip side of this is - in the hands of an expert player a falcon list becomes downright deadly the list will not fly itself, despite what people tell you, you still need a solid battle plan to maximize its strengths. if u have the falcon title its only good if u can keep your action and avoid flying into the teeth of their firepower.

Han with his reroll abilities are OP with gunner or Luke.

common attack goes... fire with 3-4 red dice... hmm, reroll all those red dice due to crappy 1st roll... 2 hits! defender rolls evade dice and evades... gunner triggers for another attack... fire again with 3-4 red dice... hmm reroll all red dice AGAIN due to crappy roll ... 3 hits! (ppl who have not played much against Han will gasp at this point and question the legality of all those rerolls) ...evade dice again... oh man look i rolled only 1 evade that time. thats a standrd attack without focus... han does not generally need focus to hit hard against a low agility target like shuttle or B-Wing you can expect to deal 3 damage MOST times you fire on it.

You sound like you have been at my games. An imperial list that I have won with agianst fat han is

Defender with vessary with HL and wingman

Lambda with your with HLC

Lambda .

You park the in the corner and run your into the other lambda and have vessary do laps until han and the support come over. Lambda does red your recievies stress token, your does green into lambda gets rid of stress. Vessary stays close so that when han comes in he can do that red turn if needed passed stress to your which is then removed after by wingman, then follow the falcon after it passes.

This works very well but it's very boring to play the first 4/5 turns until your opponent realises your not leaving the corner. It's also tricky after the pass as you need to prdict well where the Falcons going to go. Not to hard though as your right up against the edge of the board and have the stop manoeuvre to pull with one of the shuttles each round for a leap frog type effect, vessary for just gravy