Hello there,

only a quick question: what happens if a monster is stunned during its own movement due to the guard attack of a heroe? Does nothing happen at all until the next round (where the token is discarded), is the monster immediately stopped and the token discarded, is the token discarded and the monster may not attack (half action) or what else...?

You only check for lingering effects at the start of a monster's activation or a hero's turn. What happens inbetween doesn't matter. So in that specifik example, the monster would go on with it's turn, and the stun would take effect on the monsters next activation.

edderkoppen said:

Not entirely true. Web and stun don't take effect until the next turn, but daze, frost, and debateably sleep tokens all take effect as soon as the hero / monster gets the token.

Kind of an inconsistent ruling IMO, but I can see the reasoning behind it, as stun and web would effectively immediately end the figure's productive turn in most cases. The wording of the specific effects in question seem to bear it out, but the inconsistency will guarantee heated debate in my group over how it should be interpreted.

Lord Foul said:

Web takes effect immediately. You can't spend movement until a web token is removed. You simply don't get to try to remove it until next turn. For example, in the level where you can step on a space and get a web token ("stuck in the middle"?), it would be pretty ridiculous for a hero to get webbed and then keep on going and spend all their fatigue, etc. for movement before it took effect.

I think the stun question is a good one. Paralyzing gas ends a turn AND gives a stun. Since it's not addressed, it seems that you would have to allow the stunned monster to continue its current turn, but I could see a ruling going the other way if we got an official answer on that one.

Vanilla:

Web

A figure that has been caught in a web is
marked with a web token. At the start of each
of that figure’s turns, its owner must roll a
power die for each web token on the figure. For each
power surge rolled, one web token is discarded. If any
web tokens remain on the figure after rolling , the figure
cannot spend any movement
points that turn.

RTL:

Web

A hero who is caught in a web is marked with a web token. At
the start of each of that hero’s turns, its owner must roll a black
power die for each web token on it, plus one additional black
power die for each die of Melee trait the hero has (the number of
bonus power dice rolled when the hero makes a melee attack).
For each power surge rolled, remove one web token. If any web
tokens remain on the figure after rolling , the figure cannot spend
any movement points that turn.
Monsters caught in a web remove tokens the same way, except
that they roll one black power die for each web token, plus one
extra black power die for each space they occupy beyond the first.

The bolded text shows the point of contention in the RAW.

Lord Foul said:

Since ToI is the latest rules set, my take would be that if at anytime a figure has one or more web tokens on in, that figure CANNOT use movement points until he rids himself of all web tokesn.

Also- how often is a hero going to receive a web token in the middle of his turn anyway?

The ToI blurb from the back of the book reads:

Victim must roll a power die for each
web token next turn: Discard a web token for each ~, and victim may not
spend movement points if any web tokens remain.

It could still be argued that none of this takes effect until the start of the figure's next turn. A token can't really remain unless it has avoided being removed, can it? Even if we accept your interpretation for Vanilla, the proper use of Web in RtL is still open, as it already has a distinctly modified rule and precendent for that sort of change already exists in Undying, for example.

As to when a player will become webbed in the middle of their turn? Only in rare circumstances. A monster, on the other hand, will become webbed during its activation anytime a hero with a guard order and a web dispensing weapon is around.

I'd also give a vote for using the RtL versions rather than the Engrish explanations in ToI. It looks like the ToI descriptions had words randomly removed so that all the abilities could fit on one page, "Victim must roll a power die for each web token next turn: Discard a web token for each surge, and victim may not spend movement points if any web tokens remain." my old English teacher would cry if I turned in a sentence like that.

Also, if you go strait by that web definition, you only roll for webs on the turn after you receive them. If you have any web tokens left, you don't roll to get rid of them again, and have no movement. . . forever.

It doesn't even specify that you should be rolling to get of web tokens at the start of your turn for web, bleed, or any other lingering effects. Per the ToI rules, you can wait until the end of your turn to roll for and die to bleed and burn tokens. If you consider that to be a planned rules change, then assume that web immediately causes no movement.

Never, ever go by the little effects descriptions on thta last page of the book. They always leave something out that is ciritcal to how the effect works.

I agree that the web rules are badly written. It could be interpreted that the tokens have no effect until a roll has been made to remove them, but even that is not clearly stated.

Given the lack of clarity, it seems most reasonable to go with the general consistancy of token mechanics.
1. Tokens get checked at the beginning of a figure's turn. They usually have removal rolls, they may also do damage or have some other effect (like stun).
2. Tokens on a figure are always 'active' - that is, they don't have an 'inactive' state. Burn, Bleed, Daze, Enslavement, Sleep, Frost, Stun, or Web - all of them have some effect at the beginning of a turn (usually removal) but also may have some (main) affect at other times in a turn. In some cases (Burn, Bleed, Sleep, Stun) the other (main) effect is immediately after the first roll, in other cases the main effect is during combat or movement. I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that a token is 'inactive' just because it has not yet been rolled for, or because the current phase is not when that token has it's effect (a burning figure is burning the whole time, not suffering from sudden temporary combustion at the beginning of each turn).
The other 'effect tokens' (which don't have their 'effect' immediately after the roll to remove them) act regardless of whether a roll has been made. Daze and Frost are pretty clear that they don't have 'delayed activation'. Web should probably be interpreted to be consistent with these.

OTOH, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the wrodning is deliberate (if still bad) and web tokens need time to 'set' and so are not supposed to act 'instantly'?

Personally I think it is simple. You don't need 'memory'. If there is a token on the figure then the token is in effect. So if a figure has a web token on it in the movement phase (at any time in the movement phase), it cannot spend MP (no need to 'check memory' whether it is a 'new web' or an 'old web').

OK. So I have to find my own ruling with my group since there is none to find? ^^

Stefan said:

For Web, yes (web is ambiguous). For Stun, no (stun is unambiguous).

Stun is easy, because the effect of stun happens when you discard the token . It is not having a stun token that reduces your turn, it is discarding one (which you must do if you have any). So 'getting' a stun token mid-turn does not even have the potential for any immediate effect. Most other tokens actually have an effect if there is still a token on the figure after rolling for removal, which is different.

Corbon said:

I don't see the ambiguity here. Web states ". . .If any web tokens remain on the figure after rolling, the figure cannot spend any movement points that turn." Whereas daze and frost read "Each time a figure attacks while it has one or more daze tokens on it." Web clearly takes effect only after rolling for it. It would have been simple to use a wording similar to daze and frost if the intent was for web to be instant, something like "A figure connot spend any movement points while it has one or more web tokens on it." Web is only checked at the start of the turn, and lasts the whole turn even if it is removed partway into it, such as by the 2 fatigue to remove an effect token guy.

This is apart from the absurdity of being able to put 1 web token on a dragon with a web guard attack and forcing the dragon to be unable to move (even though it will be rolling 6 dice to get rid of the token on its next turn). If you want to houserule web to end movement the turn you get it, at least allow a roll to get rid of it as soon as you get a web token.