Indeed. Hence why a FAQ is the only way to get them to agree.

not because a bunch of people refuse to accept it once it's explained.

There is no mass disagreement on this topic. As near as I can tell, we currently have exactly one person who disagrees, and he hasn't weighed in since the rules were quoted out. So maybe he'll change his mind, or maybe he won't.

But it really shouldn't matter on this question. If we start filling the FAQ with every rule answer that a single person refuses to accept, we're going to have to start selling it door-to-door with former Encyclopedia Brittanica salesmen.

And he hasn't weighed in, because he's just woken up from a night's slumber. I was reading that at 1:30am and it looked to me to be one way or the other. It seems, clearly now, that I was wrong in factoring in the range dice. My bad. You live and learn. Not sure how that made me a "holdout" Buhallin.

And he hasn't weighed in, because he's just woken up from a night's slumber. I was reading that at 1:30am and it looked to me to be one way or the other. It seems, clearly now, that I was wrong in factoring in the range dice. My bad. You live and learn. Not sure how that made me a "holdout" Buhallin.

I knew you probably weren't, but it would have looked really bad for Bilisknir if nobody disagreed, and you were the closest to it so I was trying to be at least a little generous

Hmmm... thanks for the "generosity".

The way we've been playing it here I guess, is I've got a ship with Agility "X" so I grab "X" green dice. My opponent says, he's shooting with Wedge, so I drop a die, and then I say it's at Range 3, so I pick the die up again. We've just calculated the number of dice in total.

Now reading the FAQ entry it said ignore the "minimum" restrictions until the calculation is complete. You can see where I went wrong, right? I see now that it's the value calculation that is the only thing to calculate and range and obstructions are added later. Easy mistake and not really game breaking.

And he hasn't weighed in, because he's just woken up from a night's slumber. I was reading that at 1:30am and it looked to me to be one way or the other. It seems, clearly now, that I was wrong in factoring in the range dice. My bad. You live and learn. Not sure how that made me a "holdout" Buhallin.

Not our first. Won't be out last.

Hmmm... thanks for the "generosity".

The way we've been playing it here I guess, is I've got a ship with Agility "X" so I grab "X" green dice. My opponent says, he's shooting with Wedge, so I drop a die, and then I say it's at Range 3, so I pick the die up again. We've just calculated the number of dice in total.

Now reading the FAQ entry it said ignore the "minimum" restrictions until the calculation is complete. You can see where I went wrong, right? I see now that it's the value calculation that is the only thing to calculate and range and obstructions are added later. Easy mistake and not really game breaking.

No offense intended. It's an easy mistake to make, because it rarely comes into play. Apologies if you felt that was in any way picking at you - it truly wasn't. The suggestion that there's some massive disagreement here that people won't accept the answer for unless it ends up in the FAQ is just blatantly silly. At the time it came up you were literally the only one who seemed to be disagreeing with the consensus, I didn't intend to imply that you were being unreasonable with it. Like I said, I never doubted that we'd all land on the same page. I'm very sorry if I misused your position on this one.

No worries, B. When I read the discussion and the FAQ entry last night, I just got the value calculation mixed in with the dice total calculation.

The main reason I read these boards is to try and understand everyone else's take on particular situations. And there's always a good mix of "what if" situations. Usually things that would very rarely come up in game. And given the limited amount of playing in my part of the world, these boards are a great source of info and reference.

Associative Additive Property

a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c

So if

a = the number of defense dice based on agility of defender which in this case the decimator (0)

b = the number of defense dice added based on range 3 (1)

c = the number of defense dice added/subtracted because of abilities or effects in case Wedge removing agility value (-1)

0+1+(-1)=0 or 0+(-1)+1=0, no matter how you order it you will get the same number (0).

Now in the queen's English it was written clearly so no one tries to 0-1=(<0) and try to make <0 = 0 which clearly does not in order to skip the negative modifier. Now the rule saying after the calculation if the number of defense dice is <0 then it is simply 0 as it is physically impossible to roll less than 0 defense dice which could cause some rule interpretation exploration.( would that be a penalty applied to the next roll or allow the opponent to roll an additional attack die). So if the total comes out to =to or < 0 then simply do not roll any dice (basically the equivalent to rolling 0 dice) and that is what you come up with.

Associative Additive Property

a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c

So if

a = the number of defense dice based on agility of defender which in this case the decimator (0)

b = the number of defense dice added based on range 3 (1)

c = the number of defense dice added/subtracted because of abilities or effects in case Wedge removing agility value (-1)

0+1+(-1)=0 or 0+(-1)+1=0, no matter how you order it you will get the same number (0).

Now in the queen's English it was written clearly so no one tries to 0-1=(<0) and try to make <0 = 0 which clearly does not in order to skip the negative modifier. Now the rule saying after the calculation if the number of defense dice is <0 then it is simply 0 as it is physically impossible to roll less than 0 defense dice which could cause some rule interpretation exploration.( would that be a penalty applied to the next roll or allow the opponent to roll an additional attack die). So if the total comes out to =to or < 0 then simply do not roll any dice (basically the equivalent to rolling 0 dice) and that is what you come up with.

This is actually impressive.

You necro a thread that's been inactive for a week, post without reading any of the actual discussion, which both comes to a common conclusion AND includes an official response... and still manage to get it rather spectacularly wrong.

<golf clap>

Associative Additive Property

a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c

So if

a = the number of defense dice based on agility of defender which in this case the decimator (0)

b = the number of defense dice added based on range 3 (1)

c = the number of defense dice added/subtracted because of abilities or effects in case Wedge removing agility value (-1)

0+1+(-1)=0 or 0+(-1)+1=0, no matter how you order it you will get the same number (0).

Now in the queen's English it was written clearly so no one tries to 0-1=(<0) and try to make <0 = 0 which clearly does not in order to skip the negative modifier. Now the rule saying after the calculation if the number of defense dice is <0 then it is simply 0 as it is physically impossible to roll less than 0 defense dice which could cause some rule interpretation exploration.( would that be a penalty applied to the next roll or allow the opponent to roll an additional attack die). So if the total comes out to =to or < 0 then simply do not roll any dice (basically the equivalent to rolling 0 dice) and that is what you come up with.

This is actually impressive.

You necro a thread that's been inactive for a week, post without reading any of the actual discussion, which both comes to a common conclusion AND includes an official response... and still manage to get it rather spectacularly wrong.

<golf clap>

From the latest FAQ 9-26-2014

So what was wrong? it still comes out to 0 with this new FAQ ruling. Before you may get the 1 but as of now you complete the calculation first then round up to 0 if your calculation is <0.

The calculation is based on all abilities that affect agility. The added green dice from range 3 or behind an asteroid is a bonus green die, not a bonus to agility. These extra dice don't get factored into the calculation, only abilities that affect agility do.

I think we are probably going to require a FAQ on this.

Nah. It's pretty clear as written. Just in case though, here's an email reply from Frank.

Hello,

In response to your rules question:

Rule Question:

Hello! I have a quick question about calculating agility values with range. The FAQ says to calculate all changes by abilities and upgrades before finalizing the value. My question is if range bonuses come into play in this calculation process. The case for this is:

Decimator is at range 3 of an attacking ship. For whatever reason, whether it be that wedge is the attacking pilot, outmaneuver is on the attacking ship, or the decimator has a structural damage crit, the decimator's agility is being negatively effected. Is the decimator's agility then 0 (0 base value, -1 from crit/upgrade/ability, +1 from range 3) or is it 1 (0 base value, -1 from card effect, finish resolving cards so back up to 0, then +1 from range 3)? Thanks for your time!

The additional defense die granted from range does not increase the agility value of that ship, it is merely an additional defense die. Any effect that decreases a Decimator’s agility would only have an effect if there was another effect in play that was increasing its agility (such as Commander Kenkirk’s ability).

Thanks for playing!

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

[email protected]

Thank you for including the email from FF. I wish there was a way to more clearly call out an official reply in a string to help reign in debate. I learned something new.

And to further add to this riveting discussion, Asteroids (i.e. Obstacles) also "add and additional dice" rather than modifying agility so should Wedge be shooting at RA Chinareau at range 3 through an asteroid, RA Chinaraeu will actually get 2 defence dice.

Wedge is a sad panda at that point haha.

Just like when shooting at a huge ship... despite the fact they have 0 agility value, they will roll one green die at range 3 (or obstructed attack). 2 if both.