Sol Badguy said:

And two years ago Vs. Was giving away $10,000+ at Gencon.

Now where are they?

Some companies spend a lot of money on Prize support hoping to drive a large player base, and are willing to spend X thousands of dollars over a certain time period as part of a business plan.

UFS's goal is to be around in 5 or 10 years. While immediate gratification is fantastic, it doesn't translate to long term success.

Antigoth said:

And last i checked naruto has a large player base + bandai makes millions off of its toy line Naruto isn't going anywhere...However Naruto is obv going to die eventually because all animes end at some point. Which i why I want to stick with a game that is not following a story with an eventual ending and I found that in UFS. Still it would be nice to get better prize support at big events. On the one hand I would LOVE to travel to these big events. However I am pretty poor so it would require me to save up for months and then spend it all to go and for what? A CHANCE at getting a character card? I am sure that the community is great and all but spending hundreds to get there and coming back with very little or nothing is pretty crappy.

To be honest, I could care less about the economy. This is a game that has to compete with all the other games out there.

I've played Magic, VS System, Naruto, Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts, and pretty much everything else out there to expand my knowledge of these games. It is part of my job at my store. More than half of them I have played competitively. There just hasn't been anywhere near the support for UFS that there has been for anything else.

It doesn't matter how much more or less of a company FFG is. If it chooses to play with the big leagues, then they should definitely prove it.

I would love to travel more than I do, but the fact is that I barely come out with anything to show for my expenses.

Even Worlds last year. so I ended up with a few more Chesters, among other promos. So what. I spent so much money getting there. Now I understand that I took the risk. I was the only person diversified out of the top 16 worlds Singles. I definitely fealt that blow when I realized that I pretty much spent near 700.00. Oh, and I had to spend an extra days worth of money to play through grinders, that I didn't even need to be there for. That was definitely around 100.00+ just for that inconvenience.

This year, placing top 8 of the GCC and all I got was the Life counter and a play set of Light Hearted. I could care less about promo characters that have already been released in the standard prize support...

Then, getting First place, winning the SCC. It definitely feels good. What do I have to show for it? A life counter... and a play set of Light Hearted. Scuba tried to make the support better but lets be honest... I ended up with around 50 or so useless Legacy UR cards that will sit and take up space until FFG decides that Legacy needs to be supported. I got a nifty plaque, but that definitely is something that I can't run in a deck or use to help further my collection. Oh... I got a cool banner...yeah ...

I love the people who play UFS, but I lost ALL of my playerbase within the last month. They don't think its worth it and have dispersed into Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and Magic. Those games, they atleast can get decent prize support, AND they provide more events closer to home.

Sol Badguy said:

I've been going to Gencon for about 17 years now.

If UFS was to implode in an anti-matter explosion tomorrow, I would still go to Gencon in August.

You're talking about the largest gaming event in North America, with a dealers room that is worth going to for that alone. The amount of Free stuff you walk away with just for going to Gencon is silly. The amount of stuff you can buy in the dealers hall for cheap is even sillier.

Last year people complained that if they had to qualify to play in the UFS worlds, they would have to spend more then 1 day playing UFS at Gencon.

Try putting that into perspective with "just going for a chance to win a character card."

Antigoth said:

Great more stuff I would have to spend money on in the dealers room. It's not cheap because it cost me hundreds to get there. So it probably comes out to more than I would have spent just buying it online. Also i doubt that the free stuff you get amounts to the money you spend and most of it is stuff you don't need/care about. I am sure the con is great I have only been to one con in my whole life and it was comic-con. I had a blast but I never went back because it was just too much money for me to justify spending to come back with some bags full of random stuff.

Sol Badguy said:

Oh trust me... I know all about spending lots of money to go to Gencon. It's a 20 hour drive for me each way. That's the only way we can justify doing it

But hey... you've got your mind set, and I respect that. Big shows aren't for everyone. Because of customs and shipping to Canada and such, it's much cheaper for me to get stuff directly at Gencon. (Unless they're selling at MSRP, then never mind)

I just hope they do something with the prize support because getting the same promos over and over again gets old how many promo zangiefs, felicia's and ukyos must I endure!?

Lets hope nationals gets packs or something.

i agree with red triangle, green triangle one hundred percent. foily russians are not pro.

Oh I still plan on going...it's just that I would like to see better support because its a lot of money for me =(

I mean don't get me wrong getting to make a character card is the best thing I've ever gotten in a UFS event. But honestly I'd rather pay a twenty dollar entry and get some BA prize support every round of top cut. Make me some foil inhuman perceptions, some manifest destiny, bitter rivals, not some foily card that couldn't make a top 100 decklist... I don't think I need to mention any names on the card I speak of. I miss league foils that made me want to go to my local tournament. I remember when I first got a set of Friends and rivals, I felt like I got something. Even battling it out to see who got Sakura, Rose or Talim to name a few. Local tournaments actually felt like there was an accomplishment in getting a rarer chase character now it's like you don't even care. Even though it is easy to get a set of promo characters they just aren't what they used to be. Not a single one is really worth playing except for maybe Revenant (lol jk) but really all I've seen that has been really tournament worthy is promo blanka. (this is in the past few sets of characters I'm not counting Zi Mei's set that came out) I just hope that future league kit stuff and promo characters are good,and maybe some cool new soul cal foundations =P

Grizzlegrom said:

Must not rage at comment because of Friday night discussion with Jay and 'goth.

Antigoth said:

No I'm not, dont think I'm that naive. I'm saying the rediculous amounts of money players spend to compete should be mirrored in the prize support. And if you notice that was a case study on ONE CARD that was in the top 16 cuts, this doesn't include any other card in those decks nor any other BRTs that didn't make top cuts, so your poor economics lesson should be directed more towards kindergarten students. You should reread my posts fully.

I'm actually more concerned with your adamant response to the "player's greed." Are you trying to get hired by FFG or have stock with them? Or do you just love the debate?

Actually my math does fly. For one reason more than anything. I'm the customer. I'm what keeps UFS profitable for the company. In business perception is everything, and FFG as a whole is giving me the perception that it doesn't care for the top level competitors. So why pray tell should I continue to invest into something that doesn't have the respect to invest in me?

Havoc nailed it. The company should compete to keep its players. And 90% of the promos are garbage. I cant tell you how many times I've looked at our local promos and just walked away letting someone else take the waste of a card.

The coolest prize in gaming is fine, winners of the tournies SHOULD get this. But lets be honest, how much do you think it really costs to have 750 copies of a card to be made? And I can almost guarantee that person spent twice that much in getting the product.

Bottom line: I dont care what FFG spends. I know what I spend. All I want is a shot at more. I feel this will also attract more players.

Final edit: These forums suck. I cant get this to look proper.

Nfxon said:

I generally post because I have knowledge and answers. While I may not work for FFG, I've been around the gaming industry for years, and tend to have information because of that. Last year I organized and ran the Raw Deal World Championships at Gencon. That involved booking them, staffing them, obtaining and co-ordinating the prize support.

I've been one of the organizers for the Highlander CCG World Championships, and I've also been a player.

People are making some assumptions that because they bought a booster pack, or a starter deck, or went and purchased singles from some cool company that FFG must be making money off of UFS, and that for every $$$ they spend on UFS, they should get it back in prize support.

Players do not realize the costs of holding these events. They don't realize the costs of OP. They have no clue about the back ground discussions that go on about how OP should be handled in future.

I see an unrealistic sense of entitlement. And if people want Big Money winnings from the games that they play, then they should be playing Poker. Go take the money you've invested in UFS, go sit down at a poker table with the same stack of money. If you double your money, power to you. If not, go complain to them that the prizes weren't good enough and see how far that gets you.

I don't post for the love of the debate. I don't post to get hired by FFG.

***Yeah yeah, I'm about to have a crap ton of people up in arms by what I'm about to write. Aparantly when *I* express my own opinion, people get upset that I might dare have my own thoughts.***

Each day I post here I question more and more why I waste the time. People on these forums desire to wallow in their own uninformed opinions rather then go seek out facts. They prefer to pontificate on their uneducated theories rather then listen to comments and suggestions from others that might just know something. Most of the players of UFS can't be bothered with the forums, and when I'm at events I constantly have people who come up and ask me how I have the patience to deal with the garbage that I do on here.

I post what I do because I've done things like gone to the company directly and talked to them to get answers. I've spent time asking questions, and listening to the answers, and building a relationship to get information when it's needed. At the end of the day I'm starting to wonder if people actually want answers, and actually want information? Or if they would prefer to bath in the offal from their soapbox.

At the end of the day FFG chooses not to participate in their forums. I totally understand why.

If you guys want better prize support - tell FFG what you want directly. Also, how much are you willing to pay to get this prize support that you're looking for?

Then when people come on here and complain because they're having to pay $20 a person to enter the worlds rather then getting in for free, are you going to stand up and defend FFG for listening to you? Or are you going to bandwagon jump with the people that are complaining that now the worlds entry fee is too expensive?

No matter what FFG does someone is going to complain.

::shakes head ... I'm done.:: If anyone wants to talk to me about this, you can email me privately @gmail.com

This really doesnt have as much to do with the company or how much $ they get from us as some people are making it out to be. The players have to pay a good bit to do all of this whether it goes to the company or someone else. The question is is it worth it to the player to put forth the money, effort, for what is given out. I personally wouldnt mind paying $20 entry fee for a major tournament. When you are paying hundreds of dollars to get there anyway, a $20 dollar entry fee giving you the opportunity to get more return on your investment is good. For example, if theres 120 people in the tournament and each person pays $20, thats $2400, think of how much product FFG could give out for that? even if they just added a box for everyone in top 8, 12 packs for top 16, 6 packs for top 32, etc that would make the tournament a lot more interesting to me and thats only 800/2400, the rest could be used on some awesome prizes for t8 and probably cover most fees and stuff as well.

And this all started because I had a serious concern that I realized that I peronally would rather play a naruto tournament for some cheap random promos that I'm givin just for entering, then I would play in UFS after top 16ing at worlds because of the level of the return. I think some cool new promos or an added entry fee to give out some product would be nice and help the game in terms of major events.

Its cool antigoth if you wanna pick and choose what you respond to. But dont pretend to take a moral high road when your stooping to the level of us uneductated unworthy persons of your vast intellect. You mostly just sound like a self absorbed pompous ass that cant get the point. But congrats on your gaming resume? Your so much better than all of us since you can get answers. Some of us never even get a reply so +1 to your pedastal.

Back to the point. No one here is asking for a full return on investment. No one here is asking for a million dollar pro circuit. All thats wanted is more support for majors where there should be the most support. And to be honest I feel its pathetic. What people want is a shot at something more than a pack of promos they can get every week at their local store. (sorry hatman)

It is kind of an unreasonable expectaion to want FFG to put all of the money people spend back into prize support. It seems a lot of people don't unserstand how retail works. I am a manger at Wegmans in Rochester, NY. Let me break down how costs add up:

Let's say you buy a loaf of bread for $1:

.25-goes into making that loaf of bread

.10-goes into getting that bread into the store

.05-goes into the pay of the guy who unloads the truck

.05-goes into the pay of the guy who puts the bread on the shelf

.05-goes to the bakery manager who supervies the guy putting the bread on the shelf

.05-goes the the perishable manager, who suervises the bakery manager

.05-goes the the store manager

.05-goes to your cashier who scans your bread at the register.

.05-goes to the guy who brings your cart back inside

.10-goes to store upkeep

.09-pays the salaries of coporate big wigs

.10-goes into the community.(We donated 70 truckloads of food to foodbanks alone last year.)

---------

0.1. That's all that's left. And thats how most retail operations function. We make a penny on a loaf of bread. And people ***** our prices are too high. So think about this when you expect big prizes from the company.

Postman197865 said:

I'm not sure if you are responding to me but if you are still completely missing the point.

IF the tournament is going to be FREE, and we decide we want to add $20 ontop of that then it better go to prize support otherwise whats the point of adding the money?

We could handle it ourselves, everyone give $10 to Omar who is responsible for buying as many booster boxes as possible with that money and then distributing based on rankings. Its the same thing except its cheaper for FFG to do it because they get the money directly and dont have to pay a retail price so more product and happier players. Its really not that hard to get why do people keep arguing about where money is going.

Here's my thoughts on this issue.

What do you guys want for your extra $20 or whatever you want to throw in? I think this is the first step, maybe if FFG had a better understanding of what you wanted to get at major events, they would have a better chance to provide it. Do you just want booster boxes, more promos, videogames, etc? They can't please everyone. Some people want only things that will directly affect their decks - more cards. Others are cool with prizes that don't affect the game like art prints, banners, etc. Finally, some people love the trophies and plaques while some people don't care about them at all. So first off there's always going to be this struggle of what to provide, because let's face it, they can't give away everything.

Second, this year there have been two major events in North America (I can't speak for any other areas prizes because I haven't been there). I think the prize support at the first major event, Path of the Master was stellar, and I imagine that most people who attended would agree with me. There were top notch prizes for the main events as well the side events. The second major event was CanNats. As antigoth already stated, there were some issues with the prize support kit, and a nationals kit was never purchased for the event. So we had to make due with whatever they could get out in a hurry as far as FFG sponsored prizes go. CanNats prizes were meant to be better, but it didn't go down as originally planned. However, there were still prizes given out that the organizers provided, like trophies, posters, etc. So if you didn't like those (I happen to think the bowl trophies are badass) then you can take it up with the organizers. But, if you have a problem with the FFG support at that event, at least know that it shouldn't happen like that again.

US Nats will provide a full-on Nats prize kit, since FFG representatives will be in attendance. Now, we don't know exactly what this entails, but I assume it will include promos, league foils, art prints, plaques, life counters, uncut sheets, and playmats, if it's anything like the prizes at Path of the Master. Of course there will also be the Champion Asset and Champion Character cards. So, what more do you guys want? And once you find out what you want and are willing to shell out more cash for it, then let FFG know directly, just as antigoth mentioned, going directly to them will be more beneficial.

mattkohls said:

The problem is that, IIRC, we were told that last year.

Antigoth said:

IIRC, that was a policy that was enforced from way before UFS pinged on FFG's radar. I get what you're saying, but to say that it's solely because of us? You're giving the UFS community way too much credit here.

Also, not everyone believes that FFG is an accessible company. I e-mailed Bromen a few times when he was there. IIRC, the person to e-mail such concerns changed twice since then. And generally, said e-mail isn't distributed. You've done it a few times, but at this point it's almost better for one person to start a thread, hope it gets civil and then link the responsible person at FFG to the thread in question. They'll have time to read at their leisure and if it gets too dumb they can just disregard it.

Won't change much, but at this point, I doubt sincerely that anything people say will make FFG change their minds on the retardation of their playerbase.

I think that players at major tournaments (Worlds and Nationals) will be happy if the following are true:

1. The winner gets something no one else gets (CPiG).
2. The top 8 get something no one else gets (even if it's just playsets of what everyone else gets, plus some booster packs or advance promos).
3. EVERYONE at the major tournament gets something only available at that tournament. Something new. It shouldn't be a broken promo (that would be terrible). But alternate art versions of chase uncommons or URs would be excellent. A promo would be acceptable only if it's mediocre with cool art or effect (a Timmy or Vorsoth card). A choice of 3 mediocre promos would be even better (with Top 8'ers getting one of each).
4. All prize support is advertised well in advance (no silly "mystery prizes") so everyone knows exactly what to expect, and everyone can decide in advance if it's worth it.

I personally think 2nd place should also get more than the other Top 8'ers, but I think it's much less of a big deal than my other 4 points.

ARMed_PIrate said:

Honestly, we can argue until we're blue in the face but at this point I'll agree with Antigoth on something : If nobody bothers to tell FFG, why the hell should they care?

No, posting on their forums doesn't count enough.

Homme Chapeau said:

I'm just going to point out that I didnt make this topic to tell FFG we need better prizes or something, it was just to see how people felt about the prize support we have and if they shared similar opinions to me. However I am not against anyone emailing FFG to try and beef support for nats and worlds >_<

FenMiHuo said:

I'd rather it be someone else than me. I've reservations in showing an e-mail that I received privately.

this remember me one of the best card i got out from can nats. And a fellow friend insisted to sign it.

BEWARE. IT MAY BE HARD FOR THE YOUNGS AND THE FAIL ONES