So I'm not sure how many other people feel this way but I've always felt UFS has kind of lackluster prize support in major events, not much product goes around, promos are the same ones we've had for months (please note this is based on experiences at worlds last year and regionals Ive been to this year). I really hope this year at least nats and worlds get a boost, cause as it stands it's not that appealing for what it costs to travel to these events. I recently picked up the Naruto CCG with a friend solely because of the awesome prize support. For entering the Sannin Tournament (Naruto equivelent of Worlds) at Gencon, each player is given 6 Unique Art versions of some chase super rares (the first one previewed is a $30 dollar card and just imagine what a limited edition unique art version will do) and there are 6 of these that everyone gets just for playing through all 8 rounds of the event. Top 8 last year got xbox 360's, laptops, ipods in multiples, its just seems like a big difference in incentive to me, and my problem right now as I realize it, is while yea getting your own character card is really cool, honestly if I top 16'd at UFS worlds I think I would skip it to play in the naruto event and get my promos and possibly a lot more, and that actually kind of bothers me >_> I guess it's just a risk vs reward thing and that would just be my personal choice.

I'm not trying to attack UFS or anything, its still easily got the best player base and its a very fun game in general, its just I dont feel much competitive incentive for it. I'm just wondering if anyone else shares similar thoughts.

Please consider the current state of the economy, the size of this game, and the size of the company supporting it.

Now compare the size of the game and the size of the company to Naruto.

Now please remember that the winner of Naruto worlds doesn't get their own champ card.

Play the game to play the game. I travel to worlds because I want to compete, not because I want to win an Xbox 360. I'm not so greedy and disingenuous that I think I should be compensated for making a conscious choice to participate in a totally optional event of my life.

Normally arch, i would be agreeing with you, however I feel it isn't really greedy to ask for a decent prize for a high-level tournament.

The "greatest prize in gaming" is phenominal but in all honesty it is really hard to pull people in without a reasonable prize schedule for other major events.
If you expect players to drive hours to regionals, make it worth their while. There is no reason that a large quantity of product can't be given out at these events. Booster boxes are really not that expensive, and even charging 20$ a player will cover the kit as well as additional prize support to make a very attractive prize pool.

Look at it like this, if a player is deciding to drive two hours to a moderate-level event, why would they if the best they can win is a promise of a dinner and an invite to worlds? The counters are neato and all but really have no "value" that might convince a player whom is on the fence to make the trip, which most likely will cost them way beyond the value of the prize. Worlds and Nationals is worth it for the winners, but from last year's reports, Nats wasn't worthwhile since the prizes awarded to those not in top cut were league promos?

I am all for going for the fun of it, and I would have gone to MWCC2 to hang out with the local players had I been available.

It all comes down to a bit of proper planning will go a LONG way.

Just recently my local store hosted an Epic TCG tournament and gave away a Nintendo DS to the winner. 20$ a player and after 6 people joined the event, the DS was paid for, and the other 4 players' 80$ bought a box of packs for the participants. They also recieved extra promos that were given to us by the company. Everyone seemed happy with the prize support, even those that drove 2 hours or more to play. I am sure that people that travel to regionals wouldn't mind paying more to guarantee more impressive prizes....

just my thoughts.

I found the prize support for our nationals in 2009 fairly lackluster to be honest. The regional prize kits and nationals prize kits are overpriced to be honest. I found that aswell in worlds of last year, the prize support was absolute garbage. To be quite honest, depending on how worlds turns out in capacity and prize support, it will be determine whether I will consider staying in the game.

The prize support for Can Nats this year was downright terrible.

I finished 3rd and walked away with next to nothing (small trophy thing and a lifecounter)

Prize support for Last years US Nationals was also ridiculously bad.

Worlds always has very solid prizes and POTM was supported well, but outside of those events the support is always a bit grim

Archimedes said:

Actually Naruto winners do get to design their own card but since there are no characters in that game its usually just a really powerful mission card.

And this isnt really about being greedy, I mean we are all sharing the same economy and love playing the game. But is it really that hard to print special promos for the event or split some product with players that do better. People dont mind paying more for an entry fee when there is more to win. I also realize Bandai is a bigger company, I dont care about getting a Laptop, Xbox, ipod for winning getting my own personal character card is cool enough, but what about those people who do well but dont win? What about 9th place? or even 8th place? Yay a 10 dollar life counter (that I still wish they would put on sale normally)

I actually think the life counters are pretty cool for prizes, but if I top 8 worlds and get the same thing I got for top 8ing a regional I wouldnt be very happy

I uderstand that the company is smallish, but come on foil light hearted? I dont expect alternative art cards or anything crazy, but shouldnt everyone walked out with foil versions of red lotus or the new reprints? When STG ran things, when you went to tournys you got all sorts of unreleased promos that made the trip and/or entry fee worth it. Last years can nats I walked away with all sorts of promos to trade to people who didn't go. This year I got light hearted and kairi from kingdom hearts. It sure doesn't encourage me to want to travel when I can get the same prize support playing in my local meta (minus the kairi).

A few notes:

1) For Canadian Nationals this year Fantasy Flight Games had offered to put together a special Nationals Kit, which due to some communication issues was refused by the organizers. What happened instead was when I got there and found out that there was no prize support from FFG, I paid out of my own pocket to have FFG overnight prize support up.

They sent basically a regionals kit, which since it was put together in under an hour to be able to have it shipped to meet UPS's deadline, while the cards might have been lack luster, it was better then nothing. After that, you need to talk to Jay and Mike about how the cards were given out, because I had nothing to do with that.

Additionally the Kari Promos were not sent as part of the regionals kit. They were from something else, and I have no idea how they appeared. But I confirmed with the person who put together the emergency pack, and their answer was "What the hell?!"

2) While some companies can afford to offer up those big prizes, keep in mind, UFS doesn't charge a $20 entry fee. Last time I checked, the entry fee is free, and all you pay is the mandatory price Gencon charges for the space.

What they do offer in terms of prize support is better then other games that charge a similar amount, and in some cases, better then companies that charge $20 a head to enter the tournament. Imagine paying $20 to enter a championship, and all you get is 1.5 year old promos that everyone is so saturated with, you can't give them away.

3) If you want FFG to know this stuff, contact them directly. Posting here on the forums means that the community sees it. FFG does not tend to read these forums, so posting here won't get the action that you're looking for.

4) As already mentioned, keep in mind the current economic conditions. How much money does a company have to throw around at a free championship?

Our local store has Mox tournaments every month, Naruto appairantly folks get to design their own card and various other cool schwag, YuGiOh... Well every card that's good is like 10000 dollars anyways...

Our regionals kit had ONE good promo pack. ONE ! My life counter still sits in it's box and while cool, it's just too cumbersome to use in a major tournament when you have three games of grey wars on one side of a very small table.

If FFG wants folks to play this game (and given their lack of any sort of constructive involvement in the past six months or so I'm highly starting to doubt it), then they have to make it worth it to play said game. Yes designing your own character card is nice, BUT it's given to one person, usually playing the most expensive deck. I'm not saying give character cards to the top 8 of Nats or Worlds or whatever, but at least make it worth it TO top 8. Bragging rights are nice, but foil LIght Hearted? Really? Not even foil Tae Kwon Do Zephyr? At least that card's playable.

There's are two main reasons why I don't travel to major events outside of Oshawa (and back in block 2 Toronto). It's simply not worth it. Yes hanging out with folks from the States or England or whatever is awesome, but (and this is ZERO disrespect meant at anyone who I've hung out with via UFS tournies outside the Shwa) I can hang out with my friends and drink/shoot the sh%^ for free around town, and not have to spend exorborants amounts of money to do so.

The other is that, while I do fancy myself a decent player, at the current time I don't take the game seriously enough to fancy myself a guy who'll win a major tournament. Hell y'all should've seen me at the Shwa regionals. The whole day I was going: "What the hell? This deck aint sposed to work! I aint sposed to win!" As such, what driving factor, besides bragging rights (which I never see the point of) is there for me going to a major event?

I do understand that times are hard and all, but that goes both ways.

When times are hard you want to excite your playerbase into coming to a major event, at least this is how I feel.

My thoughts overall really come down to: Charge more for the major tournaments.

I really don't know of any game that has major events that are "free" (or as close to as possible) since the entire point of a major event is higher stakes and bigger prizes.

If a tournament is $20 for a constructed event and you get 16 players (using MWCC2's turnout as an example) you have $320 that can be used to purchase prizes. Take $120 out for the tournament kit or whatever the exact cost is, and you still have $200. Even at full retail that can get you a couple boxes of boosters, as well as ancillary prize support. Sleeves, playmats, gift cards to the convention/venue, Street fighter figures, My little ponies, or whatever else you can think of.

When times are hard it is the perfect time to have these events in which you can get a PS3, 360, wii or other console. People want that since there is a guaranteed value to the item. At $25 a head, any players in the area would be stupid to not try their luck. I know for the recent Yugioh 360 tournaments, people borrowed others decks just so they could give it a shot. People will come to an event that has appropriate prize support.

Yes we want this game to grow, and I understand the company is small, but when a "top tier" deck is playing playsets of cards that are supposedly valued at 25$ each or more, they are going to be spending/trading more than the top prize (save for character cards) is worth.

I agree, anyone unhappy with prize support should absolutely email FFG, and politely voice their concerns. However I believe this is still a casual debate, as there has been no flaming or antagonism present in this thread, and I do enjoy the discussion.

To be honest I am dissapointed with prize support as well recently . I thought after the switch over from FFG by now things would be back to where they were but I guess the economy changes things if your not wizards of the coast or bandai. I just hope FFG does make an effort for worlds and Nats if its like last year I might question about traveling as frequently.

I really think the coolest prize in gaming is more than enough.

But then again I don't play for prize support. Duh, if I wanted some cool catz SF poster I would go buy it with all the money I spend on cards.

I play becuase I enjoy the challenge. So... my comment to those in charge of prize support: please put some research into what will attract the most players to the events to challenge me. If the most players are greedy and want bling, then please increase prize support. If charging $20 per person sees a 40 person event drop to 30, then don't do it. Whatever works for more people!!!

Also, I tend to see prize support as a representation of the sucess of the game, becuase more people = better prize. It is weird to see so many people say better prize = more people... hmmm, self fulfilling prophecy? It's like advertising! Spend money to make money? hmm.... This is actually much more difficult than my few insincere words make it sound.

Perhaps, what we should do is collect our thoughts on what $ value should be handed out for prizes for what # of people attend. Then, factor in the cost incurred to coolest prize in gaming etc. and see where we land?

What price should FFG put on your attendance? Thoughts?

- dut

Last I heard the MWCC2 prize support was pretty decent =P Anyways, the main reason I go to events is not necessarily for prize support, but to play the game. However, with an entry fee comes expectations of what prizes should be like, and if the fee is 20+ per person, I'm going to expect it to be awesome. If the expectations are met, all is well, if they aren't, I'll complain a little and then move on, because chances are I'll have got my money's worth somehow (either in play experience, good times and or shiny cards/packs).

High cost prizes is what killed VS in my opinon. When people go to the tournaments for huge prizes the moment the company can't afford it things go down hill fast. You have players conditioned get huge prizes the moment that doesn't come through the scene dies. Right now having your own character card that can impact the game is the most awesome unique prize in all of collectable games.

sir_shajir said:

Nothing will ever equal the greatness of the Canadian Nationals 2007 prize support I'm afraid.

My problem with it is that it really doesn't give off that "this is a large tournament" feel. Especially for Nationals. It's not a question of : "People play for prize support." more than it makes the game look particularly dainty and low quality. If you don't believe you're extremely awesome, why should others believe so? The "Coolest Prize in Gaming" is fine and all, but that's only for select events and we've been hearing rumors down the line that may restrict even more the amount of events that will have access to such a prize.

Again, if you're driving out for Regionals, there should be a prize worthy of said drive, and the prize kits simply do not represent such a thing. When I want the poster that came with the tournament kit more than anything in the prize support (of course we may be biased in that Target X's joke/"I don't know what I want to put on there okay" actually became a reality... for some strange unexplainable reason), there's a problem.

There's a tournament tier, obviously, as there should be : Local Tournaments are bottom of the ladder, then Regionals, and then Nationals/Worlds (there isn't really much of a difference between the two other than FFG splurging a whole lot for Worlds prize support, but the top prize really is the same - a character card. Yes, that's still awesome, but the fact remains that the World champion is just a glorified National champion if we go by what is offered by FFG alone). We've the Fight Life series (did I mention I hate the name? What do you mean I did several times? Oh well.) that we have no idea how that will work. Here's a tentative idea pulled out of my ass :

World Championship
(Gen Con / Prize Support splurge / Coolest Prize in Gaming EXTRA - like maybe your character and a your character only action/foundation to show that you are the World champion and none of these other guys are, I dunno I'm just tossing ideas here.)

|

National Championship
(Convention or large event / Prize support involving unreleased promos or timed exclusives / Coolest Prize in Gaming)

|

State/Province Championship (related to Fight Life, IIRC and if plans haven't changed)
(Standard venue, advertised by FFG on the main website / Regionals Prize Support EXTRA)

|

City Championship / Regionals (related to Fight Life, IIRC and if plans haven't changed)
(Standard venue / Regionals Prize Support)

|

Local Tournaments
(Standard venue / Monthly prize support)

The way I see it, I'm not sure FFG will be able to support something like this. It's really just an idea out there of how that might work. I'm not really hoping they take notice, except if it's to tell us more things about Fight Life and how I'm completely wrong and thus should never post again or things of that nature.

Prize Support for an event does not fall solely on FFG's shoulders. Yes for US Nats, Worlds, and PotM it is all FFG, like others have said Nats 08 was terribad for support. However for the other events the organizers have the greatest influence on what the prize support is. So if you go to a regional or local event, it is not FFG's fault, go yell at the organizer.

As for the regionals kit....it is HAWT. Legend of the Five Rings players use them for honor counters and they retail for $20 a piece, so having UFS ones is super baller.

People still play L5R?

B-Rad said:

I guy who plays Kingdom Hearts plays it religiously still. Apparantly it is the second longest running CCG, and longest living CCG.

- dut

When it comes to Regionals and smaller tournaments, why don't the organisers charge slightly more for it and use they're own excuses for prizes? If I use the earlier example of an XBox 360, those normally cost around $250, right? (I'm in England, so forgive me if thats wrong...) Well, if you divide 250 by 32 (the supposed minimum number of players for a regional), thats anb extra $7.50 for each player, which when you consider, isn't that much and puts the extra prizes into the tournament.

Or better yet, only charge a dollar (or pound) extra for the tournament and use the surplus money on booster prizes?

However, my comment isn't all going to be a bed of roses, I do think that FFG's prize support has become lacking of late, but only in the sense of the tournament promos being released being extremely disappointing. I must admit, I was a little ticked off when I saw that the reprinted Cursed Blood and Mark Of The Beast were tournament promos. Those are the sort of thing that belong in a league kit or regional kit. That was how we were given Widoe Maker, Power Dunk, Nagase's Blog etc back in the day. If you want to reprint something in foil for tournament promos, it should be the Starter Characters from the previous sets, as those would be something that people would actually want (although I still feel that would be a bit of a copout).

We need to see a batch of promo CHARACTERS all released at once, like they used to be. I remember when K' was released alongside 10 other promo characters or so, and I had to play in at least 2 or 3 different tournaments to get him because he wasn't aways in the prize support, instead, I ended up with fantastic trade bait. Now, the reason I say characters in big capital letters, is because quite frankly, I'm sick of having to get playsets of all the promo cards that aren't characters. (How long did it take YOU to get a playset of Chester's Backing?) Not only that, but people are complaining that we keep seeing the same characters over and over, well, if you're not going to ban them, then more characters that can keep up with the meta need to be released so that they don't have to ban anyone. I'm very sure that people would chase after Promo Birdie, Sodom, Soiree, Jivatma, Mignon, Algol, Hilde, Amy, Rimururu, Kusaregedo, or early Tekken promos far more quickly than they would a foil of a card they most likely already have, wouldn't you agree?

At the montreal and southern ontario regionals we charged a bit extra and gave out in terms of prize support. Hell, my store manager was ok with me giving out some extra older packs to a crazy canuck who travelled from calgary to play

I'll preface this by saying I'm in the boat of more prizes. People who say competition, its fine I can partially agree with that. But do I really need to spend piles of money to attend an event just for that? Evidently thats what all my money is spent on. But it comes to a point when you want some return for your invenstment. And if your thinking you can compete at the highest level without investing serious amounts of money, your mistaken.

And the people saying the economy stinks suck it up, I have an example for you.
Worlds 08
Top 16 cuts, prize support was 2 ipod touches and 6 DS Lites. (not 100% on this correct me if I'm wrong please.)
I'll high ball the prizes worth here.
Say the two ipods are worth $600 combined.
Six DSLites at $800 total.
Brings the grand total of prize support asside from promos and the character card to $1400.


Top 16 decks, 15 of which ran full sets of Blood Runs True.
At the time the only way to aquire BRTs was through buying a starter set box. Those retailed for aprox $50.
So its safe to assume $50 = 1 BRT. I'm low balling the numbers here.
15 sets equals a total of 60 BRTs in top cuts alone.

60 x $50 = $3,000.

Keep in mind that is just from top cuts. This doesn't include the rest of the field. Nor does it include any other card in any deck. Specially during the time of six boxes to pop one of the desired ultra rares.

So basic math says printing one card and clever packaging sold double what they gave away in prizes in the top cuts alone.
Some one explain the economy thing?? /sarcasm

Footnote: I get other cost and printing / design / rent / electricity yea I pay for those two, but after doing this simple math I found things to be slightly rediculous.

Wow... so...

Are you saying that FFG gets the full retail amount that every display sells for?

Because last time I checked:

FFG Sells to a distributor.

Distributor Sells to a store

Store sells to the player.

So lets back out the Taxes - Government cut of the $50

Then lets back out the stores cut of the $50

Then lets back out the Distributors cut of the $50

Then lets back out the cost of shipping the cards from the printer to FFG, then lets back out the cost of printing the cards.

Then lets add on the costs of marketing the game, paying the various wages associated with the people producing the game.

Oh... and lets add on the cost of printing all the promos that everyone wants, and all of the staff's wages to have the staff present at Gencon.

Then lets remember how much you paid to enter the worlds 2008, and how much of that went to FFG - $0

Now - lets add onto that the cost of paying to have a booth at Gencon, paying for the badges for all of the staff to attend the show.

Paying for the hotel costs to house all of the staff at the show.

Sorry dude... your math doesn't fly.

I'd just be happy with foil versions of cards I'd actually play, The way i figure it foil red lotus and mark of the beast cost as much as a foil light hearted and people who go to events walk away with stacks of those.

Antigoth said:

Also... 50$ sounds too low for a Starter Display Box for the player that buys it. I'd wager 50$ from the distributor to the store.

I do believe the Naruto tournament at Gencon is free...and yeah the winner gets a PS3/360/Wii/DS/PSP/Ipod and lots of product...At least thats what i recall. I used to play naruto. hell even the local support for that was great. It was free and every monthly kit came with a playmat for each week and about 80 promos or so.