Recently, I have flown Fat Han a lot and I have become a huge fan of the "Engine Upgrade". On large ships, however, I think it is a bit too powerful and I would like to suggest a tiny nerf on the boost action for large ships.

Large ships gain more from boost actions than small ships:

The move ahead a lenght of 3, as opposed to a length of 2 on small ships and the difference in covered ground is even greater with bank boosts, as the the base is wider, which works quite well with the 360° turrets on Decimator and YT's.

To counter this I would suggest following changes:

The forward boost is executed by using the broad side of the 1-Forward-Template, so the large ships moves ahead only 2,5 ahead in length.

The bank boost is executed by putting the bank template next to front guide and not between the front guides. So, the right bank is executed by putting the template next to left guide and the left bank is executed by putting the template next to right side.

The changes are small, but nerf the boost action on large ships a little. Not a big change, but a small step in the right direction, imho.

I have attached a screenshot for better visualization. The YT-1300 uses the standard FFG rules, the YT-2400 boosts according to my suggested rules:

I would like to hear what you think of this.

I like the idea. Small changes but still viable.

It brings it in , ine with the change to barrel roll. I like this idea.

Not a bad idea at all. I always thought the enlarged base on the large ships gave them something of a bonus when it came to movement. It kinda balances out when you're trying to weave through asteroids, but when you can outpace an A-wing with a large ship, something's not quite right.

I like it. A lot, in fact.

I'd honestly rather just see Engine Upgrade banned from large ships. Even with these changes, they gain a stupid amount of mobility from boosting. A shuttle should not be keeping up with an A-wing in a drag race.

But this would be better than nothing.

But this would be better than nothing.

It is better than nothing, and is a fair amount like the change to the BR ruling already in place. Doing it the way Farlander suggested means about half a base less forward movement, and about half a base less left to right.

I'm not sure if just banning EU from large ships is the right answer or not, it may come to that, but I think it might be good to try this first and see what kind of impact it has.

Such a great idea!!!

Sounds pretty good to me, limit those large ship builds a bit

When a freighter can equal a fighter for speed, their is a problem.

When a freighter can equal a fighter for speed, their is a problem.

Not just a freighter, but a lumbering shuttle... and not just a fighter, but the (supposedly) fastest interceptor of the era.

<shrug> I honestly don't think it would be that bad if it weren't for the turrets. The shuttle often uses Engine Upgrade to get to some minimal parity with fighters, which is fine. But on a ship whose sole concern for maneuver is making sure it doesn't get shot at, it's an incredible tool.

Well with the Drag race Phantoms are just as fast as the big ships.

Even though we know they are not.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/Starship-Comparison-Chart-star-wars-24719398-638-479.jpg

I personally don't like it, and that's coming from someone who players mainly small based ships.

The barrel roll solution is fine because the template is used in the same regards just with a different edge.

This changes the orientation of one template out of two as well as where the templates are placed to begin the manuver which, in my honest opinion complicates matters further.

Furthermore, I feel the change is marginal at best, barely any change at all really. The change to the barrel roll was to restrict lateral movement because you can shift the template back and forth along the side, with boost it's different because of how you use the guides.

For new players it would be a severe disadvantage to them since every move seems to work differently.

Lest us all not forget, this is a game, and sometimes mechanics has to trumph fluff. Yes the YTs were not as nimble as most fighters, however if we were to follow the fluff exactly we'd end up with YT's only able to perform 1 and 2 straights as well as a 1 bank and 1 turn. In such circumstance an A-Wing pilot could quite simply destroy one ship and run away from someone using a YT for an entire game. Hardly fair or sporting behaviour to encourage.

Well with the Drag race Phantoms are just as fast as the big ships.

I think that's a little disingenuous though. You're assuming both a decloak move and an Engine Upgrade to give it boost, which it would only be able to do every other turn if it ever wanted to attack. And at least thematically, it's not that the Phantom is actually faster - it just cheats off the starting line

Yeah, cheating little Phantom jumps the start every time.

Even though we know they are not.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/Starship-Comparison-Chart-star-wars-24719398-638-479.jpg

I notice the Albino Space Cow isn't here.

A thought came to me today. How about the idea of a tractor beam? Use your action to activate on target in arc and your opponent loses the ability to boost or barrel roll.

I am so hoping to see the TIE Avenger in game one day and this might be its special ability, besides ludicrous stats and a better dial than the Defender... *dream on*

Well with the Drag race Phantoms are just as fast as the big ships.

I think that's a little disingenuous though. You're assuming both a decloak move and an Engine Upgrade to give it boost, which it would only be able to do every other turn if it ever wanted to attack. And at least thematically, it's not that the Phantom is actually faster - it just cheats off the starting line

Even though we know they are not.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/Starship-Comparison-Chart-star-wars-24719398-638-479.jpg

I notice the Albino Space Cow isn't here.

Yeah I noticed that as well and said it doesn't make sense to start the phantom cloaked.

and if I forgot the picture is from SableGryphon in his post The Fastest Ship. Didn't meant to claim the picture as my own, so here is giving credit to where credit is due.

Buhallin a while ago, I apologize if it wasn't you/him or if I get it wrong, suggested not allowing Engine Upgrade for Large Ships. Then coming out with a Combat Upgrade for the shuttle.

I personally prefer this. Boost and Barrel on Large Ships are tough especially with turrets. But the shuttle without an Engine Upgrade moves to nearly useless quickly. I I like this idea

Engine Upgrade can only be used on Small Ships. The Lambda only gets a Combat Upgrade which is equivalent to the Engine Upgrade.

Buhallin a while ago, I apologize if it wasn't you/him or if I get it wrong, suggested not allowing Engine Upgrade for Large Ships. Then coming out with a Combat Upgrade for the shuttle.

I personally prefer this. Boost and Barrel on Large Ships are tough especially with turrets. But the shuttle without an Engine Upgrade moves to nearly useless quickly. I I like this idea

That was me

Honestly, I'd rather see other upgrades for the shuttle which let it actually function in what I think was its intended role - support ship. I don't believe the shuttle was ever intended to function as a first-line dogfighter, and the fact that Engine Upgrade lets it do so points to the silliness of boost on large ships. Give it specific titles or crew to let it function in the support role, and give it a good use outside of being a dogfighter.

But barring that, yeah, I could live with a shuttle-only engine upgrade.

I actually think 4 points is too much for boost on a small base ship. Its about right for a Large Base ship.

Does anyone have a number that they think would be appropriate for boost on a Large Base ship? 6, 7, 8?

I actually think 4 points is too much for boost on a small base ship. Its about right for a Large Base ship.

Does anyone have a number that they think would be appropriate for boost on a Large Base ship? 6, 7, 8?

The problem (and this is a general problem with X-wing's upgrades) is that it depends greatly on the ship.

On a Lambda, Engine Upgrade makes it minimally flyable. 3 points is probably good.

On a Falcon, combined with a turret, it makes it an impressively tough arc-dodger that doesn't have to point at its target. This one is probably closer to 7.

On the Outrider, it turns it into a boosting and barrel rolling unhittable target of doom that flings freight trains every turn. There is no price tag you can put on it that is reasonable for that.

I've been running Dash pretty much since Gen-con and have won two small local tourneys with him. Considering the times Ive used Boost to dodge or get away this change might not be that relevant, I'm still moving a range increment. Thank god they nerfed the Barrel Roll cause that was just obscene. While a absolutely ingenious 'fix' I'm not sure it would have the intended effect. Not fully anyway.

And yes the Outrider in all it's upgrade studded glory is abso-freaking-lutely derp level bananas. But he crumbles when you put any stress on him. Not that anyone I've played against has figured that out yet but hey, that's what you got to do and there are plenty of ways to do it. Or ion him when he's stressed and then really screw him up. or triple bounty hunters worked well. Royal Guard Squad had a chance. At the end of the day he's two x-wing hulls strapped together with the same agility to boot. Just like worlds is showing that meta can find ways of thrashing broken ship builds, the meta will bend to just nerf all bigs for the coming year. Speaking of which Scum seems loaded to bear to eliminate almost completely the playability of Dash so just wait a while and it will be like there was never a problem in the first place:D

But I'm hoping there will be an good all around imperial counter, not if you want to beat Dash you need to fly Scum