So I was just messing around with fleet building and I would like some feedback. I'm posting this because in one of my first post, I asked for some sample fleets so I could get a general idea for how to build a fleet at all. Just seeing if I'm Improving so any feedback would be appreciated and if you think you can improve this more than I did, then post it below.

Outer Rim Smuggler (27)

Gunner (5)

C-3PO (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Kyle Katarn (21)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Jan Ors (2)

Roark Garnet (19)

Blaster Turret (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Moldy Crow (3)

Points: 100

The general thought of this is that three ships go in and support each other but the main of the fleet is the YT. Roark's ability mixed with Kyle's pilot ability seemed a good start. Jan's crew ability seemed to be the icing on the cake, but most of the fleets I think are good but can't last long. Above all, I can't wait to play this soon.

I've already come up with a name The "Birds of Prey" squad

You have very little firepower with a maximum of 6 damage at range 2, also RS and/or MC should be on Kyle because he will be tossing the focus around so he needs a lot of tokens. Predator on a ICT ship is also questionable because you'll be doing max one damage per turn. Your YT-1300 has way to many points invested in it for a 2 attack dice ship, I'd much rather have a naked Chewie for 2 more points then your setup.

I don't want to discourage you, but this really is a terrible squad. Tell me which expansions you own and which pilots you like and I'll be able to advise you on what to change.

You have very little firepower with a maximum of 6 damage at range 2, also RS and/or MC should be on Kyle because he will be tossing the focus around so he needs a lot of tokens. Predator on a ICT ship is also questionable because you'll be doing max one damage per turn. Your YT-1300 has way to many points invested in it for a 2 attack dice ship, I'd much rather have a naked Chewie for 2 more points then your setup.

I don't want to discourage you, but this really is a terrible squad. Tell me which expansions you own and which pilots you like and I'll be able to advise you on what to change.

Imperial:

1 Firespray 31

1 TIE Advanced

1 TIE Bomber

1 TIE Defender

3 TIE Fighters

1 Imperial Aces

2 TIE Phantoms

Rebel:

1 Rebel Aces

1 A-Wing

1 B-Wing

1 CR90

1 E-Wing

1 HWK-290

2 X-Wings

1 YT-1300

1 Z-95 Headhunter

As to favorite Pilots, I don't really have any yet. I try to break out of the norm by making my opponent guess at every turn. You can just call me a "Jack of all Trade, Master at none" because I'm still new and I can only play against someone in my area once a week if I'm lucky. Also on that I live in the middle of the desert with only one hobby store and I have no job, i'm 22 and I'm still living at home until I can move to a new area with my family. Really if you were to ask me if I would get into this game two years ago with how much strategy and competitiveness is in this game, I would of said no. I only ask that anyone who reads this doesn't judge me because of what is stated.

Sorry, but I have to echo the "this is a terrible squad" comment. You just aren't going to be killing stuff very effectively with so few dice, and your tanks aren't all that durable. Also, some specific ship issues:

Outer Rim Smuggler (27)

Gunner (5)

C-3PO (3)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

This is too many points to spend on an ORS. The ORS is a mobile asteroid for a cheap price, if you're going to invest a lot of points in a YT-1300 then you need to get one of the named pilots. This is especially true if you're going to make it the center of your list. Something like this would be much better:

Chewbacca (42)

Predator (3)

Luke (7)

C-3P0 (3)

Falcon title (1)

Total: 56 points

Now you have much better firepower and more tank for a fairly small point increase compared to what you already had. This is a ship that can be the center of your list and win games. Support it with Roark (with an ion turret) if people like phantoms in your area, otherwise just take a pair of decent dogfighting ships.

Kyle Katarn (21)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Jan Ors (2)

This is a waste of points. Kyle is only effective when you have the title card and a recon specialist to accumulate a pile of focus tokens in the opening turns before the shooting starts. That allows you to hand one out every turn while still having focus available for his own dice modification. Right now you just aren't going to have enough focus tokens to make good use of his ability, so spend the points on a ship that can be effective on its own instead of mediocre support.

Roark Garnet (19)

Blaster Turret (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Moldy Crow (3)

And this is also really bad. These are the upgrades that should go on Kyle, while Roark should have the ion turret. And in your current list there's really no point in having Roark, you don't have any big threats to boost to PS 12 so his ability isn't worth very much and you just have a really expensive turret.

You have very little firepower with a maximum of 6 damage at range 2, also RS and/or MC should be on Kyle because he will be tossing the focus around so he needs a lot of tokens. Predator on a ICT ship is also questionable because you'll be doing max one damage per turn. Your YT-1300 has way to many points invested in it for a 2 attack dice ship, I'd much rather have a naked Chewie for 2 more points then your setup.

I don't want to discourage you, but this really is a terrible squad. Tell me which expansions you own and which pilots you like and I'll be able to advise you on what to change.

Believe me. You didn't discourage me. This is the reason I posted this. If I can get any tips from anyone that'll be great. I've been only playing this game since May and Have zero win. I ended up only counting achievements like how I destroyed an advance with Darth Vader as the pilot, or how I came within three shots of destroy Boba Fett with a YT non-unique pilot. I don't have a problem with anyone giving me constructive criticism and to tell you the truth I've never been good with strategy so I thank you for your input.

Start thinking about how many attack dice you throw each turn. And how much damage you can actually do. Note that Ion is only 1.

Thus at R2, you can do a MAX of 4 damage a turn. and youre only throwing 2 regular dice and 6 ion dice. ... really something like 6 dice total, for an approximate 3 damage a turn.

Your list would simply be greatly improved by using Han (whom is infamous and overused for good reason), and by not putting an Ion ship into the mix.

If you really just HAD to do it, maybe one HWK and add a Z.

You can also go for Biggs to make the Falcon last even longer and a Z.

That's Paul Heaver's list from Nationals.

Han with 3 Zs is the Fat Han list that is ubiquitous everywhere.

---

General squad building in wave 4:

Have a PS 9 or higher ship with some mobility options (boost barrel roll) that attacks for at least 3 dice.

Have as many ships as possible, try and only use upgrades if you really need them. (Exception for Falcon, load that baby up).

Be able to do lots of damage.

8 ties rolls 16 dice a turn.

howl swarm 7 rolls 14 with 6 rerolls. Nearly TL + F.

Roark + 3 Bs with FCS rolls 9 + 3 ion, with a lot of shots with TL + F.

Whisper 5 tie rolls 14.

Nationals winning list rolls 10, but is meta specific and comes with very good flying tricks.

Consider 10 to be the minimum. Try and be above that. 12 is a good number to shoot for.

Start thinking about how many attack dice you throw each turn. And how much damage you can actually do. Note that Ion is only 1.

Thus at R2, you can do a MAX of 4 damage a turn. and youre only throwing 2 regular dice and 6 ion dice. ... really something like 6 dice total, for an approximate 3 damage a turn.

Your list would simply be greatly improved by using Han (whom is infamous and overused for good reason), and by not putting an Ion ship into the mix.

If you really just HAD to do it, maybe one HWK and add a Z.

You can also go for Biggs to make the Falcon last even longer and a Z.

That's Paul Heaver's list from Nationals.

Han with 3 Zs is the Fat Han list that is ubiquitous everywhere.

---

General squad building in wave 4:

Have a PS 9 or higher ship with some mobility options (boost barrel roll) that attacks for at least 3 dice.

Have as many ships as possible, try and only use upgrades if you really need them. (Exception for Falcon, load that baby up).

Be able to do lots of damage.

8 ties rolls 16 dice a turn.

howl swarm 7 rolls 14 with 6 rerolls. Nearly TL + F.

Roark + 3 Bs with FCS rolls 9 + 3 ion, with a lot of shots with TL + F.

Whisper 5 tie rolls 14.

Nationals winning list rolls 10, but is meta specific and comes with very good flying tricks.

Consider 10 to be the minimum. Try and be above that. 12 is a good number to shoot for.

Han Solo (46)

Marksmanship (3)

Gunner (5)

C-3PO (3)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Biggs Darklighter (25)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Roark Garnet (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Fire-Control System (2)

Flechette Torpedoes (2)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Fire-Control System (2)

Tarn Mison (23)

R3-A2 (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Wedge Antilles (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Wes Janson (29)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Keyan Farlander (29)

Opportunist (4)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Here's a fun one. Just for kicks.

Chewbacca (42)

C-3PO (3)

Gunner (5)

Millennium Falcon (1)

Knave Squadron Pilot (27)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Unfortunately, I don't have the Gr-75, so any pilots or upgrade cards in there are not in my hands at the moment...

Two more things to add to the general hints:

1) The best defense is a good offense. Durability is nice, but only as long as it is protecting your big guns. The best way to win games is to put a bunch of really scary threats (whether they're elite aces or just a brutally efficient swarm) on the table and kill your opponent's ships as fast as possible. This is the biggest issue with your list, you have only three ships but none of them really scare me.

2) Support ships are a trap. It's possible to use them if you know what you're doing, but you need to be really careful to ensure that the support ship is giving more of a contribution to your list than another conventional combat ship. And you will almost never want to have more than one support ship in your list, with the only exceptions being ships like Garven or Dutch that are effective combat ships that just happen to have a support ability added on. If you break these rules you'll find yourself in an awkward situation where you're handing out tons of buffs, but don't really have anything effective to put them on.

Ahh. Junk. Sorry about that. Forgot you don't have the transport.

We play with proxies haha...

Going to echo the sentiment that you want more firepower red dice beat green dice so you want a bare minimum of eight to nine attack.

I see you have all three ships with turrets- is this because you like the ships, or is it a crutch you are going with because you are worried about keeping ships in arc? Learning about keeping people in your arcs/ staying out of theirs is key in this game, and honestly I think it is better to learn without turrets so that you get good at that. If you stick with turrets you are less likely to learn good manoeuvring.

People are going to advise you- a lot- to use whatever is considered the current "best" list, but that is a) tedious and b) doesn't teach you much. Try different things, figure out how they work, and in the long run you'll be a better player and have way more fun. Try the staples like swarms, BBXX, etc. Not everything is a tournament, you don't have to predicate all your list building on Fat Falcons or phantoms.

I see you have all three ships with turrets- is this because you like the ships, or is it a crutch you are going with because you are worried about keeping ships in arc? Learning about keeping people in your arcs/ staying out of theirs is key in this game, and honestly I think it is better to learn without turrets so that you get good at that. If you stick with turrets you are less likely to learn good manoeuvring.

People are going to advise you- a lot- to use whatever is considered the current "best" list, but that is a) tedious and b) doesn't teach you much. Try different things, figure out how they work, and in the long run you'll be a better player and have way more fun. Try the staples like swarms, BBXX, etc. Not everything is a tournament, you don't have to predicate all your list building on Fat Falcons or phantoms.

Yes I do Like the ships but, in my experience I'm just trying to improve as well. I like to feel the accomplish the feat of building a fleet that works and win a game for once. If nothing else I'd like to know that this is not a waste of time for me because like mentioned above I get to play once a week if I'm lucky and I'm usually battling someone who has different swarms from both the Rebels or the Imperials and how they blast me out of the sky before I can line up a shot. I just like to go for something different but sometimes I get the feeling that I am trying to turn apples into oranges. also with multiple people saying that "Kyle is only good if he's the focus factory" or "you need to have at least 7 Tie Fighters to be effective at all with one being Howlrunner" for some strange reason I want to prove them wrong and show that there other aspects to the game than those that are commonly shown. Lastly I felt like this is a fun fleet to fly regardless of the outcome but I would just like to know how far is too far for coming up with something "outside of the box".

There are a lot of lists that can do well, but the list you have posted here is pretty poor- the HWK is a support ship but you don't have anything for it to support. When I am building a list, the first thing I think of is what the core threat is going to be- what am I basing the list around, that I expect to do some serious damage (because you need to do damage to win). There really isn't anything in your OP list that is any kind of threat. The HWKs are too easy to avoid, and the ORS only puts out two dice per turn.

I almost feel like you are pulling in two contradictory directions as well- you want to start winning, but you also want to use unconventional lists that other people see as "bad". The two goals aren't likely to overlap.

Try building a list around some sort of real threat to your opponent- a pair of B's with Advanced Sensors, Wedge with Push the Limit and Engine Upgrade, a Firespray with a Heavy Laser Cannon, a high-end Phantom, even a named Falcon.

also with multiple people saying that "Kyle is only good if he's the focus factory" or "you need to have at least 7 Tie Fighters to be effective at all with one being Howlrunner" for some strange reason I want to prove them wrong and show that there other aspects to the game than those that are commonly shown.

You aren't going to do this. Which do you think is more likely:

1) That competitive players who spend a lot of hours playtesting and developing lists have failed to see your "outside the box" idea and are wrong about the conventional rules.

or

2) That you're an inexperienced player who hasn't played enough games to see why the conventional rules are true and will quickly discover that your "outside the box" ideas are just the same old things that people have already tried and rejected.

Lastly I felt like this is a fun fleet to fly regardless of the outcome but I would just like to know how far is too far for coming up with something "outside of the box".

How far is too far? Depends on your skill level compared to your opponent's skill level. If you have a major skill advantage you can get away with taking a much weaker list and still win. But assuming equal skill levels making an "outside the box" list just because you stubbornly want to prove people wrong is rarely going to work. There's room for developing your own list, but if you want to succeed you need better reasons than "this is fun" or "everyone says it won't work" behind your choices.

This is especially true since you're a new player who is still learning the game. Until you understand WHY the conventional "do/don't use this" rules exist and how to win with "standard" ships/lists you're not going to get very far with trying to break those rules. Innovation only works once you understand the rules you're rejecting and how breaking them is supposed to give you an advantage. And that's something that only comes with experience.

also with multiple people saying that "Kyle is only good if he's the focus factory" or "you need to have at least 7 Tie Fighters to be effective at all with one being Howlrunner" for some strange reason I want to prove them wrong and show that there other aspects to the game than those that are commonly shown.

You aren't going to do this. Which do you think is more likely:

1) That competitive players who spend a lot of hours playtesting and developing lists have failed to see your "outside the box" idea and are wrong about the conventional rules.

or

2) That you're an inexperienced player who hasn't played enough games to see why the conventional rules are true and will quickly discover that your "outside the box" ideas are just the same old things that people have already tried and rejected.

Lastly I felt like this is a fun fleet to fly regardless of the outcome but I would just like to know how far is too far for coming up with something "outside of the box".

How far is too far? Depends on your skill level compared to your opponent's skill level. If you have a major skill advantage you can get away with taking a much weaker list and still win. But assuming equal skill levels making an "outside the box" list just because you stubbornly want to prove people wrong is rarely going to work. There's room for developing your own list, but if you want to succeed you need better reasons than "this is fun" or "everyone says it won't work" behind your choices.

This is especially true since you're a new player who is still learning the game. Until you understand WHY the conventional "do/don't use this" rules exist and how to win with "standard" ships/lists you're not going to get very far with trying to break those rules. Innovation only works once you understand the rules you're rejecting and how breaking them is supposed to give you an advantage. And that's something that only comes with experience.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say in the first part. I not say that those comment are false. What I was trying to say is that I've seen how good Kyle is with the "Focus factory" setup but is that really all that he can do? Isn't there any other way that he can be used and that's what I was trying to figure out. (I get the sense that I'm beating a dead horse. I only came up with this fleet for a friendly competition with one of my friends, it's not like I was really expecting to win a tournament or anything. Add to that my first would say that if you can't come up any idea for a fleet just fly what you like, you may get lucky.)

What I was trying to say is that I've seen how good Kyle is with the "Focus factory" setup but is that really all that he can do? Isn't there any other way that he can be used and that's what I was trying to figure out.

But that's what I was just telling you: people have tried this stuff before and concluded that the only way to make Kyle effective is the "focus factory" version. If you aren't stockpiling enough focus tokens to use his ability every turn then you're not really gaining any advantage over a basic HWK or y-wing with that ion turret, but you pay a lot more points. You could figure this out yourself by losing more games in the trial and error process, or you could just assume that the conventional wisdom is true until you have enough experience and good arguments to have confidence in your disagreements with it.

And in the case of Kyle you really aren't very far outside the box. If you swap the upgrades you have on Kyle and Roark you have the same ability to use Jan's evade tokens, except now you have more tokens for Kyle to hand out. All you've really done is make a less-effective version of the same Kyle setup that everyone else is using, and there doesn't seem to be any reason to do it your way besides being different.

I only came up with this fleet for a friendly competition with one of my friends, it's not like I was really expecting to win a tournament or anything

Sure, you aren't going to a tournament right now, but you're a newbie who doesn't get to play very often. If you want to improve your skills and understanding of the game you want to make your few games count. And that means taking conventional lists so that you can focus on learning how to play on the table instead of having to overcome the weaknesses of your list.