All black dials with ship type printed on it should be legal.

That's highly unlikely. Because then the TO or the other guy can't tell what dial you actually have. You're allowed to make a mark so you can tell your dial from the other persons. But painting the whole thing black is not by any means the same thing.If you have a TO who won't allow you to use a dial from the wrong faction, they won't let you use one painted black either. The TO has the final say and can tell you that you can't use those dials.

But then again, if I use the front of an Y-Wing dial, with the back-part of an A-wing dial it still looks rebel but is utterly wrong.

So what's wrong with painting them all black?

But then again, if I use the front of an Y-Wing dial, with the back-part of an A-wing dial it still looks rebel but is utterly wrong.

How is the fact that you can cheat a reason why this should be allowed? If anything this would make cheating like you say even easier.

The back of the dial has a YW or XW or TF or TI printed on it, so you can actually check at a glance if the dial is the correct one or not. Painting over that mark could very well be grounds for being kicked out of a tournament if the TO wished to.

The TO has the final say on if a modification of a component is allowed or not. So if you're at a tournament where the proper dial is a big deal, dials painted black aren't going to protect you. The TO can simply require that you produce unmarked correct faction Dials or else be removed.

It's the TO's call, and no loophole is going to let you get away with breaking what ever rules the TO sets.

But then again, if I use the front of an Y-Wing dial, with the back-part of an A-wing dial it still looks rebel but is utterly wrong.

How is the fact that you can cheat a reason why this should be allowed? If anything this would make cheating like you say even easier.The back of the dial has a YW or XW or TF or TI printed on it, so you can actually check at a glance if the dial is the correct one or not. Painting over that mark could very well be grounds for being kicked out of a tournament if the TO wished to.The TO has the final say on if a modification of a component is allowed or not. So if you're at a tournament where the proper dial is a big deal, dials painted black aren't going to protect you. The TO can simply require that you produce unmarked correct faction Dials or else be removed.It's the TO's call, and no loophole is going to let you get away with breaking what ever rules the TO sets.

My answer was based on the premise all the backs of the dials look the same in colour of the chosen side. So if you made all your dials black, or any colour, why should it matter. I must admit I never noticed the prints on the back. So your arguments do indeed counter my idea.

Or in other words: I stand corrected sir.

Or in other words: I stand corrected sir.

But even if that weren't true, there's still an issue here. Or perhaps more accurately that there isn't a loophole that can be exploited.

Lets say I own 2 Rebel Z-95's and 2 S&V Z-95's, I have a total of 4 dials. Lets say I wanted to run a list with 4 Z-95's. I'd have to use all my dials to do so, For the sake of argument lets say there's nothing on the back of the dial, so painting it black wouldn't have any effect.

I still have 2 Rebel colored dial covers and 2 S&V colored dial covers. So you haven't gained anything by painting the backs. Lets say you also paint the covers, so you have black on both sides. With the only thing showing the Z-95 title on the dial. There's no way of knowing which dial is Rebel and which is S&V.

But the tournament rules state that the TO has the final say on matters. So if you're playing in an event in which the TO isn't going to allow you to use mixed dials in the first place, they're very unlikely to let you use ones painted black either.

My whole point is, that just because the rules allow you to mark your dial, doesn't mean the TO will accept a dial that's been painted all black, and there's nothing you can do about it, because the TO has the final word.

here is the argument to me:

a ship is a game component.

a cardboard ship ID is a game component

a ship dial is a game component.

I can mix components as I see fit. i.e. I can use a rebel y-wing, and a scum ID card.

This has been spelled out, and is in fact the point of Most Wanted as a core principal:

You may mix and match game components(even cross faction).

How can it be that you can mix some...but not all components if they serve the same function?

To exclude a dial simply because it does not have the same "paint job" as a rebel dial seems a touch strange.

If the color is the only difference, would it not follow that you would not be allowed to use a blue rebel aces A-wing to represent Tyco? They did not come in the same box.

I have heard that Frank said that you will not be allowed to mix dials, but I hope he is wrong. It is not a question of money, but of continuity. To not introduce a silly restriction that contradicts another allowance.

And this brings up the one true gripe I have about how FFG makes rulings, they are inconsistent!

And this brings up the one true gripe I have about how FFG makes rulings, they are inconsistent!

No they aren't.

They've always said that you can paint or modify your models if you wish. So using a S&V Z-95 in a rebel list isn't any different than using a X-Wing with a green stripe painted on it.

They have however never said that other components are interchangeable. Lets say you have a Imperial and Rebel ship with the same dial, or same stats. You couldn't use a the Imperial dial for the rebel ship, or the rebel base card for the Imperial ship.

Or in other words: I stand corrected sir.

But even if that weren't true, there's still an issue here. Or perhaps more accurately that there isn't a loophole that can be exploited.Lets say I own 2 Rebel Z-95's and 2 S&V Z-95's, I have a total of 4 dials. Lets say I wanted to run a list with 4 Z-95's. I'd have to use all my dials to do so, For the sake of argument lets say there's nothing on the back of the dial, so painting it black wouldn't have any effect.I still have 2 Rebel colored dial covers and 2 S&V colored dial covers. So you haven't gained anything by painting the backs. Lets say you also paint the covers, so you have black on both sides. With the only thing showing the Z-95 title on the dial. There's no way of knowing which dial is Rebel and which is S&V.But the tournament rules state that the TO has the final say on matters. So if you're playing in an event in which the TO isn't going to allow you to use mixed dials in the first place, they're very unlikely to let you use ones painted black either.My whole point is, that just because the rules allow you to mark your dial, doesn't mean the TO will accept a dial that's been painted all black, and there's nothing you can do about it, because the TO has the final word.

There might be TO's who allow the, hypothetical, neutraly coloured dials with the ship-type print, but if I am reading your answer correctly, that is a significant risk to take when you wish to enter a tournament.

Edited:

Should a TO announce in advance whether they allow painted or mixed dials?

All black dials with ship type printed on it should be legal.

That's highly unlikely. Because then the TO or the other guy can't tell what dial you actually have. You're allowed to make a mark so you can tell your dial from the other persons. But painting the whole thing black is not by any means the same thing.If you have a TO who won't allow you to use a dial from the wrong faction, they won't let you use one painted black either. The TO has the final say and can tell you that you can't use those dials.

And the REVERSE would hold true as well! Each TO could tell you if they allow mixed faction dials!

Or in other words: I stand corrected sir.

But even if that weren't true, there's still an issue here. Or perhaps more accurately that there isn't a loophole that can be exploited.Lets say I own 2 Rebel Z-95's and 2 S&V Z-95's, I have a total of 4 dials. Lets say I wanted to run a list with 4 Z-95's. I'd have to use all my dials to do so, For the sake of argument lets say there's nothing on the back of the dial, so painting it black wouldn't have any effect.I still have 2 Rebel colored dial covers and 2 S&V colored dial covers. So you haven't gained anything by painting the backs. Lets say you also paint the covers, so you have black on both sides. With the only thing showing the Z-95 title on the dial. There's no way of knowing which dial is Rebel and which is S&V.But the tournament rules state that the TO has the final say on matters. So if you're playing in an event in which the TO isn't going to allow you to use mixed dials in the first place, they're very unlikely to let you use ones painted black either.My whole point is, that just because the rules allow you to mark your dial, doesn't mean the TO will accept a dial that's been painted all black, and there's nothing you can do about it, because the TO has the final word.

If the TO is insistant on using the original, unaltered dials. Then yes, you're right.

There might be TO's who allow the, hypothetical, neutraly coloured dials with the ship-type print, but if I am reading your answer correctly, that is a significant risk to take when you wish to enter a tournament.

Just ask ahead of time!

Stop argueing about this already.

What only matters :

- What your gaming group wants to do.

- TOs decissions.

- Game stores you may play in and their rules.

Otherwise it is pointless, we have had this discussion enough times already, and people who think FFG is right on this decission will never change their mind, same as we, who think this is silly, won't change opinion, because both of us have legitimate points about it.

So just drop it on the forums, talk to your friends and make your choice where it matters, where you are going to play.

that is a significant risk to take when you wish to enter a tournament.

Yeah that's my whole point. I was responding to this comment...

You may have just found the loophole. All black dials with ship type printed on it should be legal.

But the bottom line is that the TO decides what is or isn't allowed, and has the final say. So if you were to do this then point at the tournament rules that say you can paint your dials to mark them, thinking that will let you get away with it... the TO can point to the part that says he or she has the final say on what's acceptable.

Each TO could tell you if they allow mixed faction dials!

Sure, and I think you'll find some that do. Best thing to do is to check with the TO before you show up and find out. Because they may or may not.

But if they're a stickler for such things, there's nothing you can really do to get around the ruling that FFG had made, short of borrowing someone else's dials of course.

Otherwise it is pointless, we have had this discussion enough times already, and people who think FFG is right on this decission will never change their mind, same as we, who think this is silly, won't change opinion, because both of us have legitimate points about it.

Its great to know that if a topic has been discussed here, new discussions are not allowed. Definitely not a good ol' boys club!

Otherwise it is pointless, we have had this discussion enough times already, and people who think FFG is right on this decission will never change their mind, same as we, who think this is silly, won't change opinion, because both of us have legitimate points about it.

Its great to know that if a topic has been discussed here, new discussions are not allowed. Definitely not a good ol' boys club!

If you didn't use the search option before, i won't feel any pity for you if you feel offended by what i said.

that is a significant risk to take when you wish to enter a tournament.

Yeah that's my whole point. I was responding to this comment...

Conclusion of it all, ask your TO

:-)

If you didn't use the search option before, i won't feel any pity for you if you feel offended by what i said.

If you actually read my original post, I was asking whether there was any update on this issue. Search allows you to search for past posts, and it didn't reveal any recent chatter on the topic...so I asked.

But hey, I forgot that this board was chartered for only what you find relevant at the time. Next time I'll be sure to PM you and ask you whether you think i should post. Or, ya know, you could just mind your own business and not click on topics in which you don't have an interest.

I really don't know how painting the top and back of a dial morphed into changing the maneuvers on the dial. My point was if it's legal to paint a model why then wouldn't it be legal to paint the dial as long as you aren't changing the maneuvers. It's really all a moot point though...you have to have the correct dial as of now according to FFG. It really is a good value for what you get in the box. I will have four Z-95's, possibly six, it depends on how they play. No one makes you purchase anything...only what you want to field at one time. Of course this comes from a guy that bought three transports so I could play mission eight so buying a couple of extra boxes of most wanted will not bother me very much.