I proposed this idea to one of my regular opponents Sam last week but it really needs a group environment to work.

Basically rather than setting up all your card and pilot cards etc on the side board you have a printed list to the agreed points that is 'ok'd' by a neutral 3rd party to check its legal.

You only reveal upgrades and abilities when you play them.

This could reflect the fact you'd see six tie fighers coming towards you, you'd have no idea one was flown by howlrunner until you felt the effect of the extra fire, likewise your xwing migh have an astromech but the imperal player wont know who until its used.

Not suggesting it as a change to everyday games but i think it would be a fun way to add 'fog of war' to the game as forces rarely engage each other with a full and accurate break down of what the other side is doing.

I mean its unlikely that you'd know the exact bombload of a tie bomber but as the god like player you do by looking over the table.

Views?

I have always wanted to try this. Give it a shot and let us know. Sounds really fun in my opinion.

Neat idea. I think I would just face-down all the cards and flip each up as it is used. You'd have to use numbers on all ships, obviously.

thumbs up for sure

This is how a lot of Warhammer games used to be played. Goblin Fanatics aren't as cool when you know they're coming.

To be fair, you always know they're coming.

Ok next time i've got a third party to check the lists (prob the wife) i'll see if Sam wants to give it a go.

I think the only info you know to start is the ship type and the PS and obviously if its a named person... no real way to get around that given the arcs and stats are on the cards...

you could start all ships off with the base level 'chit' but it would be a lot of faffin about changing it once you'd 'id'd' the ship as say 'tycho'

Yea not worth it to hide PS or names. Knowing that you have Corran plus 3-upgrades doesn't really give the game away, you know? Luke with 2 would be scary. Could be EU/R2D2, could be Predator/r7.

I used to play a computer game called 'combat mission'

that had a similar 'fog of war'

If you had green troops you'd get a report of 'tank engine noise' and a marker on the game board... as it got closer someone would shouot 'tiger' and they would panic... it would get to within 200 metres and be recognised as a panzer IV mk H

An elite unit would clock it for what it was much sooner but not knowing what your opponent actually had against you until you were close and or engaging them was great fun and nail biting

I used to play Close Combat. I remember now being able to see certain enemy units at all, especially ones in buildings. All you knew was that someone was in that building wailing on you.

Id certainly like it. I want to find some way to generate random 100-point lists and play those against each other, just to make things a bit more interesting

Voidstates xwing squad builder will build you random lists at a set points value

you can also tell it what sets you own so it only uses ships and components you have.

IMO its the best squad bulder there is.

If i were FFG i'd buy it off him and make him rich

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build#

This seems like a great way to stop seeing the same lists being matched time and time again

Voidstates xwing squad builder will build you random lists at a set points value

you can also tell it what sets you own so it only uses ships and components you have.

IMO its the best squad bulder there is.

If i were FFG i'd buy it off him and make him rich

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build#

I was just about to plug this tool but then saw somebody already did. So.... +1 - great utility. Clean, easy to use. Really well done.

I think it's a great idea to put a little twist on X-wing! It doesn't make sense that we all start off with full knowledge of the other side's ships, pilots and upgrades.

I was also thinking about a 'Fog of Space' mod for X-wing. Here's what I was working with if you're interested:

FACE-DOWN CARDS

Everyone starts with their cards face-down on the table. This includes ship cards. Upgrades are face down, under the pilot card for the ships they're on, making a stack for each ship. For each ship's card stack, you identify it with one of the numbered chits we all have a million of (the little number tokens).

EMPTY SHIP BASES

On the playing mat, all you place at the start of the game is the ship's plastic base, all numbered to match their respective card stacks. As you get closer, you put the ship model on the base, but not the stat card.... So you know what type of ship it is but not who's flying.

REVEALING IDENTITY

At close range, you reveal pilot identity, and reveal the type and quantity of upgrades you have on the ship, but not their identity - in other words you let him see the upgrades, but they're still face-down.

When you use an upgrade, it is revealed.

PROBLEM WITH PILOT SKILL AND IDENTITY

This is pretty much the only reason I haven't proposed this mod already:

I'm still working out how to handle the interplay of PS with maintaining secret identities. We all know who the PS9 Large base rebel ship is, for example. So even if all I put on the playing mat was a large base, if I moved it at the PS9 step, you pretty much know that it's Han. It isn't a problem at 'close range', because pilot ID is revealed, but at the start of the game in order to conceal identities you would have to mess around with PS order of movement.

why not this:

1) use coloured paper or something, cut out 4cm x 4cm squares. Do about 15 x 2 = 30 of them total.
2) pass the squares to each player, 15 per player
3) using a pencil, write down the identity of your ships on the squares. Leave the rest of the squares blank. eg. if you are flying say Howlrunner 7 TIE swarm, you would put Howlrunner, TIE #2-7, and have 15 - 7 = 8 blank squares
4) both players would setup the squares on their respective sides at the same time (or player with initiative would put all of his 1st, or players would take turns placing 3 by 3 starting with initiative player first, whatever)
5) once both sides are ready, reveal all squares, replace squares with actual ships.

I like the idea! It could lead to all sorts of mind games, lol!

To simulate specific pilots, you could do the following:

- In the case of a generic pilot, use the appropriate generic pilot base template.

- In the case of a named pilot, use a generic pilot base, but put numbers on the base equal to the modifified pilot skill (if veteran instinct is used).

- When a pilot's ability is used, flip the pilot card up, switch the base template with the appropriate one!

So is it truly Soontir heading towards you or Turr... no one can tell early on!

We actually did this in our trench run campaign game. It was allot of fun. We just put genetic name plates under the ships and double cards in the sleeves. When the pilot revealed their abilities they began acting in their skill order and played with revealed cards. The imperial players kept guessing wrong which one was Luke until the very end when he and Porkins went into the trench. Porkins died immediately of course. All in all a really fun and cinematic way to pay.

I don't run the same list week after week and neither do my mates, we both go in blind and it makes it more interesting as you have to build a list to take on anything.

"Most" wargames are played this way... It is only with the (relatively recent) advent and and popularity of "competitive/tournament/points-based" wargames, that gamers have become fixated on "fair fights", in which the "fog of war" does not exist. The only reason that XWM is played with everything known to one and all is for the sake of said "fair fights" and to reduce complaints during tournaments. In "casual" games, you can do whatever you want; incorporating a little "fog of war" adds uncertainty and suspense, and makes for better games*.

* that is if FUN is your goal.

Would certainly try this in a social setting. Competitively, It's strategically useful to be privy to your opponents loadout, obviously, so trading that away would be fun and could be a way to make it less like a game. A pitched tournament match is kind of a "meta" thing. Not game meta, meta meaning that it's mind of aware of itself and both players are aware of everything at all times, quite unlike what it would be like if two opposing squads met by chance. Not to mention, card text is a little arbitrary when you step away from the game as a game. For instance, Wedge is fielded because his card is great, not because he is Wedge.

Oh. I was hoping you would suggest we play a coop game when you have four players. One guy is blindfolded and directs all the ships. The other guy on the team executes the maneuvers for him.

Yes. Someone would have to act as "umpire" Double blind system.

Guys could take turns as XWM scenarios are short.

Great idea!

Maybe if you add in a scanning mechanism as well. Such as at the start of combat spend 1 focus to look at one upgrade card at range 3 or spend a target lock at range 1 to reveal all upgrade cards.

Just something that reminds me of the old X-wing game where you had to inspect certain "non-hostile" ships to complete the mission.

Firstly, GREAT IDEA Gadge! Seems like a tonne of fun.

Secondly, I don't think we need to over-complicate the 'fog of war'. I think it's realistic to start with the fighters on their bases. A simple fix for the pilot skill issue is put a small piece of electrical tape over the name, keeping the PS visible. Alternatively, have your neutral 3rd party assign the number tokens and place them in order of PS highest to lowest. That way, players know who will move first, second etc, without giving away who it is.

Great idea!

We've had a few games with not revealing pilot abilities and upgrades. Great fun. The issue we had with the TIE swarm was that it was obvious after the first move which one Howlrunner was.

We have tried a game where by high PS ships can move before their actual PS. This does somewhat negate advanced scopes (if I have that right) and alters the usefulness of blockers but we played that the PS to be used had to be written down and then the shooting was used in that order too. This did provide a great advantage initially for the TIE player in 1 game as Howlrunner lived a lot longer than she usually does.

It was not a perfect system but was good fun. Once outed most players than just used the PS skill as written.