Fairly sure I was calm also, in fact can't see too many personal attacks in this thread. Maybe i'm just insensitive.

I actually couldn't disagree more with the OP on using ship mods.

First, ships were modified, even in the imperial navy, even little ol Tie Fighters. Second, 3, 4 and especially 10 points does mean an awful lot in a 100 pt list.

As others have pointed out, it made sense in the back story, the point costs and uses for mods so far aren't over the top. I don't see how they make you somehow more lazy as a player. Everyone plays their ships closer to bare to see how they run. However, upgrades are there to be taken, they are not all very good and for some builds they end up almost mandatory if your going for a competitive build.

Finally, they are fun, and as with all the other upgrades the combos and interactions are part of what makes this simple game, feel good at the end of the day. It is simple, yet in some areas complex, and enjoyable from it all.

If someone tried to tell me I couldn't/shouldn't use upgrades, I'd listen, tell them they are wrong, and why and if they didn't wish to play against/with me, well I think that would actually be a good thing.

You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.leave it at that

I've never been a fan of this ... sure people have opinions, but sometimes they are just wrong, and need to listen to those that know and learn something. Sorry if people seemed rude here but when faced with such abject misunderstanding of the rules some of us will try to corect someone.

As to your group banning a fun and interesting part of the game, I can only imagine that none of you read through the rules enough to grasp the concept.

You are 100% correct when you state that this is a game, it has rules.. I suggest you follow them, and dont be so put off by such an intrigal partnof the game. Your members must not go to the local tourneys or you'd have been explained about this already.

Also to the point of, a TIE not being a TIE if it has a ship kod on it, that couldn't be more ridiculous. Honestly, if you're thinking from movie terms.. no one knows what was done to those ships, either imps or rebels.. if the thought comes from'well the ship is set up like this' and you dont feel the need to mod it out, fine, feel free, but dont try to tell me not too, you just look silly.

I felt the need to respond here because after readig this thread, I couldn't fathom that given the facts and obvious benefits of such cards in the game that someone would still be so against them.. it boggles the mind. Also, I've never been a fan of the old 'let's agree to disagree' lines.. especially when someone is obviously wrong in their view point.

For what it's worth, I hope your group has fun playing, but I would be the first to walk out and find a group that plays according to the rules...

Fairly sure I was calm also, in fact can't see too many personal attacks in this thread. Maybe i'm just insensitive.

It's all perspective Daruis...

I actually couldn't disagree more with the OP on using ship mods.

First, ships were modified, even in the imperial navy, even little ol Tie Fighters. Second, 3, 4 and especially 10 points does mean an awful lot in a 100 pt list.

As others have pointed out, it made sense in the back story, the point costs and uses for mods so far aren't over the top. I don't see how they make you somehow more lazy as a player. Everyone plays their ships closer to bare to see how they run. However, upgrades are there to be taken, they are not all very good and for some builds they end up almost mandatory if your going for a competitive build.

Finally, they are fun, and as with all the other upgrades the combos and interactions are part of what makes this simple game, feel good at the end of the day. It is simple, yet in some areas complex, and enjoyable from it all.

If someone tried to tell me I couldn't/shouldn't use upgrades, I'd listen, tell them they are wrong, and why and if they didn't wish to play against/with me, well I think that would actually be a good thing.

You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.leave it at that

I've never been a fan of this ... sure people have opinions, but sometimes they are just wrong, and need to listen to those that know and learn something. Sorry if people seemed rude here but when faced with such abject misunderstanding of the rules some of us will try to corect someone.

As to your group banning a fun and interesting part of the game, I can only imagine that none of you read through the rules enough to grasp the concept.

You are 100% correct when you state that this is a game, it has rules.. I suggest you follow them, and dont be so put off by such an intrigal partnof the game. Your members must not go to the local tourneys or you'd have been explained about this already.

Also to the point of, a TIE not being a TIE if it has a ship kod on it, that couldn't be more ridiculous. Honestly, if you're thinking from movie terms.. no one knows what was done to those ships, either imps or rebels.. if the thought comes from'well the ship is set up like this' and you dont feel the need to mod it out, fine, feel free, but dont try to tell me not too, you just look silly.

I felt the need to respond here because after readig this thread, I couldn't fathom that given the facts and obvious benefits of such cards in the game that someone would still be so against them.. it boggles the mind. Also, I've never been a fan of the old 'let's agree to disagree' lines.. especially when someone is obviously wrong in their view point.

For what it's worth, I hope your group has fun playing, but I would be the first to walk out and find a group that plays according to the rules...

Eeeh. For home groups gentlemens agreements tend to exist, so that's fine. Indeed i find playing RAW in some(40K) games tends to get pretty bad pretty quickly. Even X-wing isn't immune to this (play evac of hoth mission two with RAW rather than RAI - dosn't say which way the turbolaser tiles have to be, or if they can be stacked..., get a defender or two to ionize rebel important ships then stack the turbolasers on them).

This said, this thread is almost totally nothing about that. Yeah, gentlemens agreement not to field mod cards. Fine. I sometimes gentlemens agreement not to field Biggs. When I am playing the rebels. And am doing an escort mission. Such gestures are for the player to decide and surely not to be arbitrarily made. My continual posts in this topic lean from an inability to understand why you would actually outright ban mods. It's kind of like banning spices from a kitchen. Yeah the food doesn't really need them per se but really, they do so much for it that you would rather have them.

You can gentlemens agreement not to field any named characters also, or agree to only field ships from a given time frame (i do this for narrative, stupid E-wings). You and your group can ultimately make any gaming decision you want to, but at least acknowledge the whys, wherefores and reasoning. When your reasoning is proven false, consider counter arguing or changing your opinion. Come up with a good reason why modifications should not be in the game. I could argue for you that the basic TIE is factory built all just the same. But a counterargument would be that the unit they were supplied to REALLY needed that shielding for atmospheric operations, so their ground crew installed some generators.

The problem with this thread is we have one person saying "don't think this should be in the game" another 37 saying "yes, it should because..." and the original poster not really acknowledging the reasons for the mods being in.

Convince us otherwise, else it'll be a very lonely voice.

A couple thoughts...

One I don't agree with mikeespo in the least... But that doesn't mean we couldn't be a bit less forceful in our disagreement around here. There's a pretty big difference in the following.

"I don't agree with you, because of X, Y and Z" and "Wow you're an idiot for thinking that"

Not saying there was a lot of the former, but it never hurts to be as respectful of someone's opinion as you can, even if you don't agree with it.

But on the other hand, just because someone doesn't agree with you opinion, doesn't mean they're trying to silence you. If someone has the right to post an opinion on something, then everyone has that right, including the right to disagree with you and list their reasons why.

There's plenty of people who have posted here with an opinion and people were able to point out the flaws in that opinion, because it was based on faulty info or faulty logic. Not always but sometimes it happens.

So when says "I don't like X because of reasons Y and Z" there's nothing wrong with pointing out the if any flaw in those reasons.

A highly upgraded force can be annoying when you forget you had a hull upgrade after you've already taken the model of the table... or miss a critical shot and then remember you had predator

This is exactly why every time something either misses or dies, I stare at the relevant ship's pilot card and upgrades. If I'm playing a synergistic list, I stare at EVERYTHING. Slows me down but I've never forgotten my free target locks with Corran, or Wedge's free reroll.

Jeeessshhhh. Did not mean to stir up a hornets nest here...

Let's just agree to disagree. Of course there are numerous examples in history of weapons mods. Low tech stuff wwi and wwii. All these mods were one time special experiments, not general issue.

Again as I stated before did not mean to offend. Just stating an opinion. I thought that is what these forums are for.

Well, if we're getting into it the bulldozers they put on Sherman tanks would probably be a modification. Maybe the flamethrower on the KV-8 would, since I believe they replaced the turret machine gun with it. Lots of the mods in this game could represent adjustments that have been made to some but not all of a given ship, either because they just decided to start or because it's only cost effective to have so many of your X-Wings capable of short boosts or something. Personally I feel that by banning them from your games you're missing out on a lot of interesting tactical decisions, but if that's how you want to play then go ahead.

Now I want a World War II game with this upgrade system. Shermans would have so many upgrade slots, it would be awesome. Maybe have different variations represented by different cards (buy a Sherman expansion and you get the regular M4, the Crocodile, and the Easy Eight) with upgrades like bulldozers, smoke launchers, and Calliope rockets as separate cards kind of like missiles or systems. Some tanks would have an "Ace Crew" that basically adds a pilot ability, but most crews can only drive a specific tank. I would spend so much money on this game, you have no idea.