dutpotd said:

Amazing my ass. The three symbols hardly have any 6 checks, and most importantly, it has even fewer 6 checks are of any use.

Chaos is a momentum symbol, second only to Air. It does not need Destiny.

Death has La Superba and Military Combat Arts for some reliable momentum.

Good is becoming extremely momentum-rich, what with White Magic and White Gi.

Also, your opinions are off. Death has arguably the best foundation base around, and also has a large list of decent attacks (thanks Nightmare!). However, not only does it not have access to any popular actions (Tag, KFT, Reject), it lacks a good pilot. While Zi Mei and Donovan are brilliant characters, they have Evil and Order respectively, making their adjacent symbols pretty much better. I love Death right now, but there's simply no denying it's hard to justify running it over a symbol such as Evil, which may lose Inhuman Perception and No Memories, but gains Red Lotus and Chester's.

Chaos is in an interesting place right now, mostly because it is no longer, "I can generate 20+ momentum in a turn, but can't do bullcrap with it", and is now, "I have no true goal at this point, and am overshadowed by other symbols in almost all of my support." Nevertheless, Chaos has a little bit of everything, making it somewhat like All, but with a purpose.

Good is not a "splash" symbol; it's done better than Death and Chaos in Regionals, and finally has enough means to compete. However, as Good is my favorite symbol, I'm going to be Harold Hill and be perfectly frank: Good is having a hard time competing against its commonly-shared symbols Air and Water. Good gets the benefit of Torn Hero and Red Lotus for uber lame Trojan-esque protection, but Air gets to use a lot of Good's stuff + other goodies, and Water is the bulkiest symbol right now packing 4x China, Coffee Pot, and Chester's.

So blah, you guys need to stop being so **** positive. You list me a card's pros, as if I don't know them, without thinking maybe I think the card sucks because it has never proven its worth in large-scale tournaments, AND has no practical use?

Destiny sucks because if the opponent is not running hax (which as I said, the only true hax symbols right now are Evil and Order, leaving 10 that either rarely hack, or don't), then it just sits there, and I've read regionals reports that support my claim. It's R is situational as Hell, ain't gonna save you from a beating, and coupled with all the reasons I've listed, simply leads to an ineffective card.

If C/D/G can get good from Tekken, then it'll be a consideration. Simply put, Destiny dampers Akuma, and some other decks, and that's about it.

MarcoPulleaux said:

I'm beginning to think that there is absolutely no point in arguing with you. It seems you get something in your head re: what is 'the best' and then spend the rest of your time complaining about everything else. It was the same with your analysis of Mina, she is undeniably good, but becuase Akuma/Chunli/Donovan are slightly better in a few more circumstances you lambaste her to no end.

The oddest thing I find about you Mr. Polo is that in some posts you speak as if your word is god, you present yourself as someone who is greatly aware of what the best is and what needs to be changed with the game to make things more balanced. And yes, sometimes what you say has some strong merit, and is well thought out, etc. But then in other posts you come across as oddly ignorant, stating that your little experience is limited to one regional, and that becuase of this you aren't the most qualified or confident that a showing at nationals or a major tourney like worlds would be worth your while. Does it ocur to you that your theoretical analysis of some cards like Destiny may be falling short becuase of your relative lack of practical experience?

Furthermore, does it occur to you that I am 'too postive' because I have as much practical experience as I can feasibly get my hands on between a full time professional career and managing a number of other social networks? My point being that, according to you, someone like me who attends as many tournies as possible and plays as often as possible, should be 'as frustrated as you' with the meta becuase all I should be seeing at the top level is a severe lack of diversity and commonly run symbols??? It just doesn't make sense does it? That someone who lives it more often than you would be positive about the game? Not when all of your tunnel-visioned comments are supported by theoretical fact! I feel for you in this respect, and hope that you do, not only get out more to more tournies, but that when you do you open your eyes to the richly different viable and comeptitive techniques that do run rampant in UFS and that are used often in the top 8 decks, I can assure you each of them have a personal flare, or so to say, that utilize cards that you would spend threads upon threads undermining here on the forums.

Just becuase the symbols haven't won a tourney recently (and yes, chaos is splashed or ran at a high level, and so is death, without 'great' 6 checks, and as you mentioned good is close and in my opinion the 'trojan' defense is worth splashing becuase it is good's highpoint) doesn't mean that they aren't viable, and perhaps if they were often run with 'useful' cards like Destiny they would be doing even better.

If you want me to directly address your post I can do that too.

Chaos has a lot of momentum gain yes. But you completely ignored the fact that Destiny makes your opponent re-check when they check 6s. Chaos is a hack based symbol, and if you can start by making them recheck 6s and then follow up with the hack (after control check) cards you are sitting that much more pretty. And - as you are quick to point out - other symbols that are 'competitive' are the ones with a lot of 6s to their name, so this should and is (my Destiny's are used often) are strong ability.

Death has Fio support for momentum... Yeah, but this is not long term momentum gain. This is 'enhance' based momentum gain. Any deck that relies on momentum needs multiple sources of gain, i.e. response and enhance, and sometimes form. The biggest problem I have with the cards you listed is that they all gain momentum with a serious cost, i.e. 2 cards from the staging area (setback) or cards from the hand and your opponent gains momentum too...

Good has momentum gain? White Magic and White Gi are extremely suspect, they gain momentum every turn yes, but slowly and one at the cost of a committed foundation on your opponents turn and the other giving your opponent momentum as well. Why wouldn't more momentum gain, if you plan on using some of Good's better momentum necessary kill cards (powerful 3, etc.) be a good thing? The point is, Destiny is useful in a good deck for alot of reasons. Perhaps the biggest reason it is good is becuase at the very least a lot of good's characters require 'commit 1 foundation' costs, and Destiny can be committed and still be useful becuase of the static text - this is a huge plus.

Finally, and not to be rude, but rather funny, k? K. Please don't start out your post with your flavor contradiction. Your ass is not amazing , at least I would place more money, pride, and happiness than I could ever have up against anyone who says it is.

- dut

I'm beginning to think that there is absolutely no point in arguing with you. It seems you get something in your head re: what is 'the best' and then spend the rest of your time complaining about everything else. It was the same with your analysis of Mina, she is undeniably good, but becuase Akuma/Chunli/Donovan are slightly better in a few more circumstances you lambaste her to no end.

Just becuase the symbols haven't won a tourney recently doesn't mean that they aren't viable

But you completely ignored the fact that Destiny makes your opponent re-check when they check 6s. Chaos is a hack based symbol, and if you can start by making them recheck 6s and then follow up with the hack (after control check) cards you are sitting that much more pretty. And - as you are quick to point out - other symbols that are 'competitive' are the ones with a lot of 6s to their name, so this should and is (my Destiny's are used often) are strong ability.

Death has Fio support for momentum... Yeah, but this is not long term momentum gain. This is 'enhance' based momentum gain. Any deck that relies on momentum needs multiple sources of gain, i.e. response and enhance, and sometimes form. The biggest problem I have with the cards you listed is that they all gain momentum with a serious cost, i.e. 2 cards from the staging area (setback) or cards from the hand and your opponent gains momentum too...

Good has momentum gain? White Magic and White Gi are extremely suspect, they gain momentum every turn yes, but slowly and one at the cost of a committed foundation on your opponents turn and the other giving your opponent momentum as well. Why wouldn't more momentum gain, if you plan on using some of Good's better momentum necessary kill cards (powerful 3, etc.) be a good thing? The point is, Destiny is useful in a good deck for alot of reasons. Perhaps the biggest reason it is good is becuase at the very least a lot of good's characters require 'commit 1 foundation' costs, and Destiny can be committed and still be useful becuase of the static text - this is a huge plus.

Finally, and not to be rude, but rather funny, k? K. Please don't start out your post with your flavor contradiction. Your ass is not amazing , at least I would place more money, pride, and happiness than I could ever have up against anyone who says it is.

G,

Welcome to why most players refuse to use the forums. There are a select few negative individuals who chase multitudes away from the forums.

It doesn't matter how much experience, knowlege, or anything else. In Shinji's eyes it's either not relevant, not current, or if you do manage to refute him he'll just have to "agree to disagree". He is a troll pure and simple. He has been banned from the STG forums countless times, and because FFG doesn't care about trolls, and ignores their forums, he gets to run amok doing untold damage to the game.

dutpotd said:

*cracks knuckles, attempts best DJ Aligator impersonation* LET'S, BEGIN! *cue whistle song*

#1 - Well, I've had lots of time to think about my comments made about Seong Mi-Na, and while I will ardently take back my comments that she CAN'T win, I leave my foot down that she WON'T. The reason why is simply because her difficulty curve makes victory that much harder, as opposed to "simpler" characters, like the ones I'd mentioned. Her reliability on draw is one of the major things that brings her down, and while she has some lovely unique tricks, like I said, the fact that she's a harder-to-use character than the ones that DO win is the reason why she WON'T win. But yes, I'll admit, stupid Shinji was stupid, and yes, she CAN win.

#2 - Um, yes, that's EXACTLY how viability is determined. Sure, I can USE Evil Iori much like one would use Evil Akuma, and the deck would more than likely be similar, but without actual proof that the deck DOES do well, it only lies in the UFS limbo of "Theoretical". If something either shows up and does poorly, or doesn't show up at all, there's no way to give it much credit short of "well, this LOOKS good."

#3 - Chaos has NEVER been a hack-based symbol, and never will be. Sure, it HAS hax, but, thankfully, CCHax are not a gigantic part of this game, and with BRT being the biggest and best hack around (followed shortly by the Akuma-exclusive Seclusion), Chaos' hax are pretty much overshadowed by Evil's, who may not have Forethought, but has BRT/Seclusion/Expelled Humanity. Also, dude, your opponent WON'T be running 6 checks because 6 checks SUCK EVER-LOVING BALLS RIGHT NOW! Once again, you're trying to push your theory against my evidence. There are very few 6 checks that are any good. The days of spamming 6 checks to pass multiple Shadow Banishments or Challenge the Master attack strings are over. Right now, 6 checks lie in only a few symbols, and do next to nothing, which is exactly how 6-checks SHOULD be. Also, as I said, MAKING YOUR OPPONENT RE-CHECK IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH ABILITY TO JUSTIFY RUNNING DESTINY! Relying on the OFF-CHANCE that my opponent will check a 6, re-check into a 3 or lower, and that will save my ass, is far too low a possibility to ever care for.

#4 - Your comprehension as to what momentum's usage is is mind-numbing. Lord of the Makai, for your information, is a BAD EXAMPLE OF MOMENTUM GENERATION. Look at the other momentum generation we have. Chinese Boxing, lol. Natural Leader is a 3/5 that makes you discard, and is an E. White Magic can only be played during the opponent's turn. Nine Lives requires a non-attack in your card pool, and is an E. They all have costs. THAT is how "direct" momentum generation SHOULD be. Also, your thoughts on how Superba, Military Combat, White Magic and White Gi are somehow bad, or slow, or whatever, is flat-out wrong, and ignorant as to how momentum REALLY works in this game. If you're running any of the 4, obviously YOU know why they're in your deck, right? If you're running *Fio*, for example, Military Combat Arts can quite possibly strip your opponent of their hand in one fell enhance. Sure White Magic activates on your opponent's turn, but that's only good news for The Curse of Immortality or Torn Hero, which are only really used on your opponent's turn. Multiples win games, period. As such, you don't need turns of momentum generation, you just need 2-3. La Superba and Military net you 2 instantly. White Magic and Gi, especially in conjunction, can get you your momentum quickly, enough so to seal the game. You mentioned Powerful: 3, and I'm assuming you're referrring explicitly to Ryu's Shin Shoryuken. As a Good player, lemme tell you, RSS needs little to no momentum to rip a dude's face off.

#5 - Destiny is NOT useful in Good, thanks to Galford. Galford gave us not just himself, but Koga Ninja Arts, and more importantly, AYAME'S SCARF! Ayame's Scarf, unlike Destiny, HAS AN ACTUAL USE OUTSIDE OF STOPPING HAX! It can clear the card pool (to an extent) AND generate momentum! It's like a mini-Felicia! As such, move over Destiny, move in Ayame's.

#6 - My ass has to be relatively amazing, considering I've worked as a male stripper, and quite successfully I might add =)

dutpotd said:

*cracks knuckles, attempts best DJ Aligator impersonation* LET'S, BEGIN! *cue whistle song*

#1 - Well, I've had lots of time to think about my comments made about Seong Mi-Na, and while I will ardently take back my comments that she CAN'T win, I leave my foot down that she WON'T. The reason why is simply because her difficulty curve makes victory that much harder, as opposed to "simpler" characters, like the ones I'd mentioned. Her reliability on draw is one of the major things that brings her down, and while she has some lovely unique tricks, like I said, the fact that she's a harder-to-use character than the ones that DO win is the reason why she WON'T win. But yes, I'll admit, stupid Shinji was stupid, and yes, she CAN win.

#2 - Um, yes, that's EXACTLY how viability is determined. Sure, I can USE Evil Iori much like one would use Evil Akuma, and the deck would more than likely be similar, but without actual proof that the deck DOES do well, it only lies in the UFS limbo of "Theoretical". If something either shows up and does poorly, or doesn't show up at all, there's no way to give it much credit short of "well, this LOOKS good."

#3 - Chaos has NEVER been a hack-based symbol, and never will be. Sure, it HAS hax, but, thankfully, CCHax are not a gigantic part of this game, and with BRT being the biggest and best hack around (followed shortly by the Akuma-exclusive Seclusion), Chaos' hax are pretty much overshadowed by Evil's, who may not have Forethought, but has BRT/Seclusion/Expelled Humanity. Also, dude, your opponent WON'T be running 6 checks because 6 checks SUCK EVER-LOVING BALLS RIGHT NOW! Once again, you're trying to push your theory against my evidence. There are very few 6 checks that are any good. The days of spamming 6 checks to pass multiple Shadow Banishments or Challenge the Master attack strings are over. Right now, 6 checks lie in only a few symbols, and do next to nothing, which is exactly how 6-checks SHOULD be. Also, as I said, MAKING YOUR OPPONENT RE-CHECK IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH ABILITY TO JUSTIFY RUNNING DESTINY! Relying on the OFF-CHANCE that my opponent will check a 6, re-check into a 3 or lower, and that will save my ass, is far too low a possibility to ever care for.

#4 - Your comprehension as to what momentum's usage is is mind-numbing. Lord of the Makai, for your information, is a BAD EXAMPLE OF MOMENTUM GENERATION. Look at the other momentum generation we have. Chinese Boxing, lol. Natural Leader is a 3/5 that makes you discard, and is an E. White Magic can only be played during the opponent's turn. Nine Lives requires a non-attack in your card pool, and is an E. They all have costs. THAT is how "direct" momentum generation SHOULD be. Also, your thoughts on how Superba, Military Combat, White Magic and White Gi are somehow bad, or slow, or whatever, is flat-out wrong, and ignorant as to how momentum REALLY works in this game. If you're running any of the 4, obviously YOU know why they're in your deck, right? If you're running *Fio*, for example, Military Combat Arts can quite possibly strip your opponent of their hand in one fell enhance. Sure White Magic activates on your opponent's turn, but that's only good news for The Curse of Immortality or Torn Hero, which are only really used on your opponent's turn. Multiples win games, period. As such, you don't need turns of momentum generation, you just need 2-3. La Superba and Military net you 2 instantly. White Magic and Gi, especially in conjunction, can get you your momentum quickly, enough so to seal the game. You mentioned Powerful: 3, and I'm assuming you're referrring explicitly to Ryu's Shin Shoryuken. As a Good player, lemme tell you, RSS needs little to no momentum to rip a dude's face off.

#5 - Destiny is NOT useful in Good, thanks to Galford. Galford gave us not just himself, but Koga Ninja Arts, and more importantly, AYAME'S SCARF! Ayame's Scarf, unlike Destiny, HAS AN ACTUAL USE OUTSIDE OF STOPPING HAX! It can clear the card pool (to an extent) AND generate momentum! It's like a mini-Felicia! As such, move over Destiny, move in Ayame's.

#6 - My ass has to be relatively amazing, considering I've worked as a male stripper, and quite successfully I might add =)

*cracks knuckles, attempts best DJ Aligator impersonation* LET'S, BEGIN! *cue whistle song*

#1 - Well, I've had lots of time to think about my comments made about Seong Mi-Na, and while I will ardently take back my comments that she CAN'T win, I leave my foot down that she WON'T. The reason why is simply because her difficulty curve makes victory that much harder, as opposed to "simpler" characters, like the ones I'd mentioned. Her reliability on draw is one of the major things that brings her down, and while she has some lovely unique tricks, like I said, the fact that she's a harder-to-use character than the ones that DO win is the reason why she WON'T win. But yes, I'll admit, stupid Shinji was stupid, and yes, she CAN win.

#2 - Um, yes, that's EXACTLY how viability is determined. Sure, I can USE Evil Iori much like one would use Evil Akuma, and the deck would more than likely be similar, but without actual proof that the deck DOES do well, it only lies in the UFS limbo of "Theoretical". If something either shows up and does poorly, or doesn't show up at all, there's no way to give it much credit short of "well, this LOOKS good."

#3 - Chaos has NEVER been a hack-based symbol, and never will be. Sure, it HAS hax, but, thankfully, CCHax are not a gigantic part of this game, and with BRT being the biggest and best hack around (followed shortly by the Akuma-exclusive Seclusion), Chaos' hax are pretty much overshadowed by Evil's, who may not have Forethought, but has BRT/Seclusion/Expelled Humanity. Also, dude, your opponent WON'T be running 6 checks because 6 checks SUCK EVER-LOVING BALLS RIGHT NOW! Once again, you're trying to push your theory against my evidence. There are very few 6 checks that are any good. The days of spamming 6 checks to pass multiple Shadow Banishments or Challenge the Master attack strings are over. Right now, 6 checks lie in only a few symbols, and do next to nothing, which is exactly how 6-checks SHOULD be. Also, as I said, MAKING YOUR OPPONENT RE-CHECK IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH ABILITY TO JUSTIFY RUNNING DESTINY! Relying on the OFF-CHANCE that my opponent will check a 6, re-check into a 3 or lower, and that will save my ass, is far too low a possibility to ever care for.

#4 - Your comprehension as to what momentum's usage is is mind-numbing. Lord of the Makai, for your information, is a BAD EXAMPLE OF MOMENTUM GENERATION. Look at the other momentum generation we have. Chinese Boxing, lol. Natural Leader is a 3/5 that makes you discard, and is an E. White Magic can only be played during the opponent's turn. Nine Lives requires a non-attack in your card pool, and is an E. They all have costs. THAT is how "direct" momentum generation SHOULD be. Also, your thoughts on how Superba, Military Combat, White Magic and White Gi are somehow bad, or slow, or whatever, is flat-out wrong, and ignorant as to how momentum REALLY works in this game. If you're running any of the 4, obviously YOU know why they're in your deck, right? If you're running *Fio*, for example, Military Combat Arts can quite possibly strip your opponent of their hand in one fell enhance. Sure White Magic activates on your opponent's turn, but that's only good news for The Curse of Immortality or Torn Hero, which are only really used on your opponent's turn. Multiples win games, period. As such, you don't need turns of momentum generation, you just need 2-3. La Superba and Military net you 2 instantly. White Magic and Gi, especially in conjunction, can get you your momentum quickly, enough so to seal the game. You mentioned Powerful: 3, and I'm assuming you're referrring explicitly to Ryu's Shin Shoryuken. As a Good player, lemme tell you, RSS needs little to no momentum to rip a dude's face off.

#5 - Destiny is NOT useful in Good, thanks to Galford. Galford gave us not just himself, but Koga Ninja Arts, and more importantly, AYAME'S SCARF! Ayame's Scarf, unlike Destiny, HAS AN ACTUAL USE OUTSIDE OF STOPPING HAX! It can clear the card pool (to an extent) AND generate momentum! It's like a mini-Felicia! As such, move over Destiny, move in Ayame's.

#6 - My ass has to be relatively amazing, considering I've worked as a male stripper, and quite successfully I might add =)

Insert Drama cat here. Or a Hatman photoshop creation.

bloodocean said:

Nothing here comes to mind.

I'd have more if René had sent me the pictures from the Canadian Nationals 2009.

You come on here and say your intent is not to hurt anyone, but 99% of your posts are arrogant, spiteful, directed slander of the game and of individuals that many of us like and respect. If that isn't a conscious attempt to cause injury, I don't know what is.

Also, again, stop listing cards that don't see play. Iori's "3/3 foundation" is called Maniac, and has never, and WILL NEVER, see play.