I was thinking now that Woodlands is out what if both the Warlock and the Magus had their Special Abilities added too the Warlock is way OTT and the Magus is so poor..

So hows this Adding this to the Warlock

You can never gain a Destiny.

and add this to the Magus:

You start the game with a Destiny.

Now with the Magus maybe another "pay for it" ability like "at the start of game you may lose all your fate too"?

Whatca think?

Honestly, I doubt this is necessary. Talisman is a very random game. I continue to think that the Ghoul is a bit deficient but one of the overwhelming victories I've seen in this game involved the magus (who worked the spell deck and stables to acquire 3 warhorses). The only thing I think the game really needs is more reset cards like Cursed by a Hag or Horse Thief.

Yeah of course any character can win given the right cards at the right time. The point is compared to other characters.

The Magus sucks and the Warlock is ott given most gamers i know play with character selection (drawing a number of character cards at start if the game and just like the online option) given the Magus is so weak a character no one picks him and everyone picks the Warlock. Drawing one character card fixes this of course but its not a great gaming option.

I think we agree to disagree. The Magus is a strong character. Perhaps the Warlock is stronger but neither one is as weak as the Ghoul, Elf, or Dwarf.

Well that is a interesting statement "The Magus is a strong character. Perhaps the Warlock is stronger but neither one is as weak as the Ghoul, Elf, or Dwarf. .

The thing is the "perhaps" thats the most interesting in the statement and "The Magus is a strong character" now I'm only human and cant spell for a goblins diper so please inlighten me on why The Magus is a strong character. I will set it of in stating why the Ghoul, Elf, and Dwarf are good characters.

1 Ghoul: good life gaining ability is a counter to the powerful and quick strength gain of the assassin plus his raising dead ability is a good counter when fighting in combat with little creatters thus allowing him to have a insurance plan when anbushed by other charaters eg the assassin . Good fate plus evil and beause of the life gaining ability does not find it hard to gain life as other evil charaters.

2 Elf: Great wood travelling ability if used right can beome a real power in the game and also an evade in woods so once you land in a woods your set for game (unless you draw bad cards in each woods) the protental is stagering one gaining place and "wammo" of course not "dead certain" but the protental is there. Better now with the woodland Oh man.

3: Dwarf: One of the only true "race to the crown" characters get in early get a Talisman and jump right in great fate allows you access early. Although not great "long term" he's a get in quick hope its a good ending charaters. Given a bit of luck the Dwarf can be a nasty character forcing other players to take more risk to get to the coc.

Now please inform me why "perhaps" the Warlock is stronger than the Magus and.. Why the Magus is not as weak (or weaker) as the Ghoul, Elf, or Dwarf.

I await your wisdom. "because you could know something I don't, stranger things have happened" "like that horse becoming pope for one"!

Well the Priest sucks at everything.

The ghoul is pretty crappy as well, but viable.

Dwarf is probably one of the best characters for winning.

Magus is just odd in that he can't fight in psychic combat, though a trip to the City can solve that now, making him not quite the crappiest thing around (the Priest seems to dominate that role).

Well I could give you reasons why the priest is good (better than Magus) but I don't want to sound like a expert or anything, I just have a good understanding on the charcaters in the game but I am keen to find out what others think because I could be wrong or missed something. Vandal has not responed so I'm gathering his insight and wisdom on the subject is lacking.

I find the reasoning of "a trip to the City can solve that now" is a counter arguement becuase a trip to the City can solve that for any character not just the Magus .

I'm normally very long in my explanations, but on this subject I wil keep it short.

The Magus is a strong character because he can gain Spells regularly.

The Warlock is surely stronger than the Magus because he gains Spells at a even higher rate. He's actually the character that gains the most Spells in 4th edition.

Spells are powerful and your chances of winning the game (or making the others lose the game) increase dramatically with characters that have regular access to Spells.

I'm normally very long in my explanations, but on this subject I wil keep it short.

The Magus is a strong character because he can gain Spells regularly.

Ok... I think we should go back to the city trip .

I'm normally very long in my explanations, but on this subject I wil keep it short.

The Magus is a strong character because he can gain Spells regularly.

The Warlock is surely stronger than the Magus because he gains Spells at a even higher rate. He's actually the character that gains the most Spells in 4th edition.

Spells are powerful and your chances of winning the game (or making the others lose the game) increase dramatically with characters that have regular access to Spells.

QFT

QFT

PFF

FFG?

FFG?

Using Internet Slang "PFF" means "An expression of annoyane or disappointment"

"QFT" means "Agreement"

Just commented that way in response.

Well the Priest sucks at everything.

And not just in Talisman, Relic has the Tech-PRIEST, he (it?) is not quite as bad as Talisman Priest, but I'm not happy drawing either one in a game.

I once used the Magus for a game that included the Dragon and Blood Moon expansions, and barely won as it was at Night.

Some characters can be good at some games, and not good at others.

It just depends on the strategy the player uses, as well as whatever cards are drawn.

I once used the Magus for a game that included the Dragon and Blood Moon expansions, and barely won as it was at Night.

Some characters can be good at some games, and not good at others.

It just depends on the strategy the player uses, as well as whatever cards are drawn.

At Night in game or At Night when you played .

Oh yeah of course some games are good and others are bad but my point is what strategy can you use for Magus that works to some degree (other than what all or some other characters can also do eg get gold and go to city, rely on spell draws).

I once used the Magus for a game that included the Dragon and Blood Moon expansions, and barely won as it was at Night.

Some characters can be good at some games, and not good at others.

It just depends on the strategy the player uses, as well as whatever cards are drawn.

At Night in game or At Night when you played .

Oh yeah of course some games are good and others are bad but my point is what strategy can you use for Magus that works to some degree (other than what all or some other characters can also do eg get gold and go to city, rely on spell draws).

There are some characters that could be played following a certain strategy, or more precisely, that could exploit a synergy between their abilities and other game components, but they are relatively few.

The Warlock has no more strategy than the Magus, only more Spells, higher Craft value, a Middle Region start space and the option to complete Warlock Quests to gain Purchase cards, which is not a great ability. Magus' indoctrination is better, but he's a step behind the Warlock in all other aspects. A Fate value of 1 is what puzzles me the most in Magus' design.

An ability to get Spells regularly is the best ability a character can have. The Magus has not the best version of it, but still it gives him an evident advantage over the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf; the only difference is that you can plan your moves with those characters, while you cannot with the Magus, because his abilities don't suggest obvious objectives or ways to approach the game. But I don't need a fixed strategy when I gain Spells every turn; I make my "strategy" according to the Spells I draw.

I think your putting to much faith in spells. Sure some are very powerful but because there are alot of spell using characters (not just the Magus and the Warlock). I totally disagree with the "but still it gives him an evident advantage over the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf" statement totally wrong on so many counts. It is easy to become spell locked and stuck unable to cast for awhile. Just like having a bad adventure card draw really.

But my point was other than lucky card draws and things that neally any other characters can do "travel to city etc etc" what is the strategy for the Magus? I mean the Elf has the wood travel/evade, Dwarf has the early COC acess, Ghoul has the psychic combat life gain abilities. But what can the Magus do? hope to get followers? Get all the Mules? I mean what?

Hench why I thought the character should have another advantage.

The only thing I can think of is that the Magus is a "tough you got him" character for no character selection (games in which players only get one character card to play with, no choice of characters" thus forcing players to think on there feet. Mind you in a 6 player game no-one takes the Magus seriously.. I suppose thats a advantage .

I've always thought the magus is missing a craft ability as a compliment to his follower ability. Discard 1 life/gold/follower to use craft instead of strength during this battle/turn/round. Not as much now as before as the game is more twosided now. Base game and the early expansions are in many ways easier with a strength based char.

I've always thought the magus is missing a craft ability as a compliment to his follower ability. Discard 1 life/gold/follower to use craft instead of strength during this battle/turn/round. Not as much now as before as the game is more twosided now. Base game and the early expansions are in many ways easier with a strength based char.

Yeah totally it feels there is something missing somewhere.

I think your putting to much faith in spells. Sure some are very powerful but because there are alot of spell using characters (not just the Magus and the Warlock). I totally disagree with the "but still it gives him an evident advantage over the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf" statement totally wrong on so many counts. It is easy to become spell locked and stuck unable to cast for awhile. Just like having a bad adventure card draw really.

Spell using characters are 11 out of 61, considering characters that receive Spells regularly if their Craft allows. That's not "a lot" and this should suggest that gaining Spells it's quite a valuable ability. It's also an ability that improves with expansions, as powerful Spells are added to dilute the Spells you used to get stuck with.

The evident advantage of Spells over all other abilities are that they are many, different and hidden to the other players (unpredictable). On the contrary, other players know very well what the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf will be up to do in a game, and they can come up with good plans to disrupt their actions.

But my point was other than lucky card draws and things that neally any other characters can do "travel to city etc etc" what is the strategy for the Magus? I mean the Elf has the wood travel/evade, Dwarf has the early COC acess, Ghoul has the psychic combat life gain abilities. But what can the Magus do? hope to get followers? Get all the Mules? I mean what?

Hench why I thought the character should have another advantage.

He has no strategy to follow, except what he may do with Spells + Followers will back him up well in psychic combat. But there are other characters that share his destiny of not having plans to pursue during a game. I think they are about 80% of the characters.

The Magus has that kind of "unpolished" feeling, like its design was interrupted at some point or cut in half for some reason. He is not full fleshed out as a character, and as many people observed he could at least have received the ability to initiate psychic combat. Another thing I cannot justify is the fate value of 1, which is something you see on characters with top notch abilities.

Character design in the Sacred Pool expansion was the most conservative and penalising of all expansions. I like the Cleric, it might be my favourite character for my style of play, but the other 3 are weirdos with incredibly low fate value and a some kind of in-built bad luck (especially the Dread Knight)

The only thing I can think of is that the Magus is a "tough you got him" character for no character selection (games in which players only get one character card to play with, no choice of characters" thus forcing players to think on there feet. Mind you in a 6 player game no-one takes the Magus seriously.. I suppose thats a advantage .

I don't know if you play with chosen characters, or if you use the alternative rule "deal 3 choose 1" suggested in the base rulebook. I can imagine why the first option is not contemplated anywhere in the rules, because characters are not balanced by any means. There are characters that are outright strong and can adapt to all situations, and others that work only in special conditions. The Magus is not the best one by all means, but he is part of the first category.

Alot is more than 2 but less than 12 I think saying thats alot is justified. Given to most characters can gain spells anyway I stand by my statement before. I totally think your understanding of spells power and ability is way over board I don't think you are taking into consederation you are playing against other players who to can draw spells. No way the Magus is a better character than the Ghoul, the Elf or the Dwarf.

So your saying that the Magus has no "strategy to follow" you "think" there are about 80% of all the characters that are the same? I suppose the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf are in those 80% even though they have clear strategy "not game winning" or "nasty" strategy but strategy thay can do to gain advantage "possible" to other characters without those abilities.

I agree with your "Magus has that kind of "unpolished" feeling" statement totally but I totally disagree with "Character design in the Sacred Pool expansion was the most conservative and penalising of all expansions" I mean you are entitled to a opinion of course but it just sounds like that a "opinion" 3 other "weirdos".. 1 "weirdo" yes but not 3 hehehe.

We always play with the draw a few pick one out of them as character seletion. But Im thinking personally that just getting one random is better in some regards. Never choose on to play... Eh thats crazy . I think we all know that the characters are not not balanced by any means but the whole point of this thread was to put forward something that weakens the Warlock and strengthens the Magus.

I do not agree with the Magus being a "character that is outright strong and can adapt to all situations" even though not the best by any means at it as you said. But hey we all have our opinions I would like some cold hard facts though. Saying spell drawing just does not stack up to me at all and certainly does not put the Magus a better character than others without spell draws not even some without spell draws . The Magus is the worst character there is in Talisman at the mo and I'm very confident in that statement indeed but your free to disagree .

Alot is more than 2 but less than 12 I think saying thats alot is justified. Given to most characters can gain spells anyway I stand by my statement before.

Gaining 1 Spell when you roll on a random table, or buying it from a card, or after you killed/destroyed an Enemy, it's not like drawing a Spell at the start of your turn or drawing a Spell every time you cast your last Spell, allowing you to spam Spells during other characters' turns. Such abilities give you a lot of Spells and I'm convinced that they give a significant advantage to the character who has them from the beginning of the game.

I totally think your understanding of spells power and ability is way over board I don't think you are taking into consederation you are playing against other players who to can draw spells. No way the Magus is a better character than the Ghoul, the Elf or the Dwarf.

Ok, I don't have to convince you of that. My experience is that Spells decide the winner more than everything else and if all characters have a way to gain Spells every turn, the character who draws the best Spells at the right moments wins, regardless of other abilities in play.

Personally I think the Ghoul has almost no abilities to use: hunting other characters for life... for what purpose? It might work well on the Crown of Command to turn the final fight in your favour, but during the game it's a waste of time. Raising small Strength Enemies to kill the bigger ones? Who says you'll be encountering the weak first and the strong second, and that you'll be able to defeat the critters with your Strength value of 2? The Elf can get stuck very easily teleporting from Woods to Woods, which are only draw 1 card spaces where you are "relatively" safe, because you can evade Enemies and characters but not Events, Strangers, nasty Followers and Places. Once 2 out of 3 Woods are clogged with useless cards that you can't remove, your shiny strategy is over. It's sweet when you draw Magic Stream or Fountain of Wisdom, but the chances of it happening with the huge Adventure deck are tiny. The Dwarf has many abilities related to base game content that have lost some of their usefulness, but he's still a great early runner. But now not all games have the standard CoC ending and it's not so wise to run fast just to be defeated by an ending boss or to trigger an hidden Ending that doesn't favour you for being there first.

You seem to like characters that have lots of different abilities. I judge them by their versatility and performance in the game. Talisman has changed a lot from the core set to what we have now, playing with some or all of the expansions, and many old characters have either lost or increased their appeal because of the varied Adventure and Spell decks, and with new options given by new rules.

So your saying that the Magus has no "strategy to follow" you "think" there are about 80% of all the characters that are the same? I suppose the Ghoul, the Elf and the Dwarf are in those 80% even though they have clear strategy "not game winning" or "nasty" strategy but strategy thay can do to gain advantage "possible" to other characters without those abilities.

No, perhaps the Ghoul can be in those 80% because he can't rely on his abilities every game; on the contrary, the Elf and the Dwarf will pursue the same strategy every game, for as much as they can.

I agree with your "Magus has that kind of "unpolished" feeling" statement totally but I totally disagree with "Character design in the Sacred Pool expansion was the most conservative and penalising of all expansions" I mean you are entitled to a opinion of course but it just sounds like that a "opinion" 3 other "weirdos".. 1 "weirdo" yes but not 3 hehehe.

For me Chivalric Knight and Dread Knight are two of the most impaired characters in Talisman 4th edition. The Dread Knight relies mostly on his Warhorse and if he loses it early on he's in serious trouble. Terrain Cards added the option to shut down his Warhorse supply semi-permanently. The Chivalric Knight is a bit better, but his ability also helps other characters, especially in the early game when even a Strength 1 Enemy can defeat you. Moreover, he can't prey on the weak, which is another major problem for a Talisman character. All this considered, they also received low fate values as an additional handicap. They might be nice to play because they have nice abilities, but the Dread's power is fragile and the Chivalric's tends to be too corteous for a competitive game. They are natural-born weirdos (as Talisman characters, of course).

I do not agree with the Magus being a "character that is outright strong and can adapt to all situations" even though not the best by any means at it as you said. But hey we all have our opinions I would like some cold hard facts though. Saying spell drawing just does not stack up to me at all and certainly does not put the Magus a better character than others without spell draws not even some without spell draws . The Magus is the worst character there is in Talisman at the mo and I'm very confident in that statement indeed but your free to disagree .

You don't consider Spells to have become determinant in Talisman 4th Edition, so it's no surprise that your opinion about the Magus is so negative. If you take his Spell replenishment as a standard or not so useful ability, admittedly there's not much substance left for this character.

I consider Spells good and have a strong overall effect on the game but hardly must haves at start of game, sure being able to always have 1 spell is great but it all comes down to what cards you draw not how many or when you can. Sure you have a advantage over other characters but its not a large advantage like your saying.

I think the Magus and his Spell replenishment ability is his best ability but like I said before its not as good of a ability as you say. Still its good to get other opinions like I said before. I suppose on this subject we have to agree to disagree which I'm very happy to do given the substance of your posts.

As for your other thoughts and opinions its good to get a seconds theories on the subject indeed but again you might want to address your reasoning. I think its a good idea for every gamer because sometimes we can become set in our ways of thinking.

Other than that I don't know what else to disccuss. Certainly this has made me rethink my Magus Warlock idea. In which I now come to think its not warrented better off playing with just plain character draws and let the players themselves sort it out.

I consider Spells good and have a strong overall effect on the game but hardly must haves at start of game, sure being able to always have 1 spell is great but it all comes down to what cards you draw not how many or when you can. Sure you have a advantage over other characters but its not a large advantage like your saying.

I think the Magus and his Spell replenishment ability is his best ability but like I said before its not as good of a ability as you say. Still its good to get other opinions like I said before. I suppose on this subject we have to agree to disagree which I'm very happy to do given the substance of your posts.

As for your other thoughts and opinions its good to get a seconds theories on the subject indeed but again you might want to address your reasoning. I think its a good idea for every gamer because sometimes we can become set in our ways of thinking.

Other than that I don't know what else to disccuss. Certainly this has made me rethink my Magus Warlock idea. In which I now come to think its not warrented better off playing with just plain character draws and let the players themselves sort it out.

Confronting different thoughts and opinions is the purpose of this forum. Unfortunately, Talisman forum doesn't host so much discussion about gameplay experiences, at least not as much as other forums on this site; we're more for rules clarification, nostalgia and standard topics ("what's the next expansion?" and such). It's interesting to discuss how we approach and live this game on the table.

It would be nice to have other users contribute to the discussion, making it look less like a verbal crossfire and more like an exchange of ideas, but since it didn't happen we'll be happy with what we've shared so far.

I also think the Magus needs one extra ability, perhaps 2 extra starting fate as well depending on the ability. Giving a Destiny might be too much of an advantage, considering what powerful and game-changing effects they have, but another ability e.g. to initiate psychic combat, and/or to take a Follower from another character as an additional reward in battle and/or psychic combat, that could work.