Ever since the new ruling on "results" added by abilities/effects one particular bit caught my eye:

Results that are added are treated as dice results that can only be canceled (they cannot be modified or rerolled).

Since hit results would be added after the defender has an opportunity to modify them, things like Sensor Jammer couldn't affect them anyway.

So are there any other abilities that add/modify hit results (aside from ones that change hits to crits) that this ruling would affect?

Accuracy corrector does not allow any further modifications anyway. So the ruling does not affect it.

Edit:

Accuracy corrector triggers during compare results, not during modify attack dice. At the time being, there is no ability that modifies during compare results.

Kir Kanos and accuracy corrector are the only effects which add hit results. So no, I do not think there is anything the ruling applies to.

mistake editing above post

Accuracy corrector does not allow any further modifications anyway. So the ruling does not affect it.

Edit:

Accuracy corrector triggers during compare results, not during modify attack dice. At the time being, there is no ability that modifies during compare results.

Kir Kanos and accuracy corrector are the only effects which add hit results. So no, I do not think there is anything the ruling applies to.

Accuracy corrector does not allow any further modifications anyway. So the ruling does not affect it.

Edit:

Accuracy corrector triggers during compare results, not during modify attack dice. At the time being, there is no ability that modifies during compare results.

Kir Kanos and accuracy corrector are the only effects which add hit results. So no, I do not think there is anything the ruling applies to.

Accuracy Corrector says you cannot further modify your dice not the results from AC (not that it matters anyway with the new ruling) - it's to prevent you from spending a TL to reroll the dice you just cancelled. Also, nowhere on the cards does it specify that it happens during the compare results phase. It has to happen during "attacker modifies attack dice" because this is the only time you get to use abilities to modify your attack.

Core rule book P12:

All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be

resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step.

And the Compare result step comes after the modify steps for both attack and defence dice.

Now I've managed to confuce my self...

Acording to the rule I just quoted, how does Ion weapons work? They instruct you to cancel dice, but only if the attack hits.

So cancel dice, must happen at the start of compare result step.

Hit or not you don't know until the end of the same step...

Or is there a difference between canceling dice (rule book) and canceling dice results (ion weapons)???

What dvor and Smuggler said. Unless FFG forgot about that blurb in the rule book and decides to pretend it doesn't exist, Accuracy Corrector triggers after all dice modification is complete.

It seems likely that we'll see more of both sides of these in the future - abilities that add results directly, and abilities that modify results, and the ruling is to keep them from having to put "Your dice cannot be modified again during this attack" on every one of them.

Interestingly, the ruling actually closes off an interesting path for effects. Since the added results can't be modified, adding eyeballs does nothing. That kills possible effects of the "Get this advantage but only if you have a focus to spend, and do so". Kind of like Sensor Jammer can be nullified by the opponent using focus.

Now I've managed to confuce my self...

Acording to the rule I just quoted, how does Ion weapons work? They instruct you to cancel dice, but only if the attack hits.

So cancel dice, must happen at the start of compare result step.

Hit or not you don't know until the end of the same step...

Or is there a difference between canceling dice (rule book) and canceling dice results (ion weapons)???

The ion weapon is not strictly a cancellation effect - it's a triggered ability which results in canceling dice.

The Modify and Cancel dice abilities don't really have triggers to them - they're activate-at-will abilities, which just have a specific window where they can be used. That doesn't preclude other effects from triggering and modifying dice at other times. The HLC does the same thing - it modifies dice outside of the Modify step, triggering on the roll.

Accuracy corrector does not allow any further modifications anyway. So the ruling does not affect it.

Edit:

Accuracy corrector triggers during compare results, not during modify attack dice. At the time being, there is no ability that modifies during compare results.

Kir Kanos and accuracy corrector are the only effects which add hit results. So no, I do not think there is anything the ruling applies to.

Accuracy Corrector says you cannot further modify your dice not the results from AC (not that it matters anyway with the new ruling) - it's to prevent you from spending a TL to reroll the dice you just cancelled. Also, nowhere on the cards does it specify that it happens during the compare results phase. It has to happen during "attacker modifies attack dice" because this is the only time you get to use abilities to modify your attack.

Core rule book P12:

All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be

resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step.

And the Compare result step comes after the modify steps for both attack and defence dice.

It doesn't mean "use them now"

It means "they should be done by now".

It's saying that during the compare results phase you can't trigger any abilities. They should be resolved already and what you're left with is what is being compared.

You're misinterpreting their use of the word "resolved"

It doesn't mean "use them now"

It means "they should be done by now".

It's saying that during the compare results phase you can't trigger any abilities. They should be resolved already and what you're left with is what is being compared.

Edit: Or, even more likely, if it were as you suggest it would be "before the start of the step".

There's also this, which tells you what you can do during the modify step:

During this step, players may resolve abilities and spend tokens that allow them to modify attack dice. This includes adding die results, changing die results, and rerolling dice (see “Modifying Dice Results”).

Canceling dice is not in there, so you cannot voluntarily trigger effects which cancel dice during the modify steps.

So not only do we have something that tells us to resolve the ability at a certain point, we have an ability that cannot be triggered during the modify step at all.

Read step 6 Compare Results. This quite clearly states that abilities that allow the player to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of this step.

Accuracy Correcter is the first card that allows you to cancel dice. Ion effects do not allow the player to cancel dice. They cancel dice after you compare results, meaning later that the start of step 6.

I still think you guys are wrong with Accuracy Corrector triggering in the Compare Results step. You are adding two hit results, and adding results happens during the Modify step. It's even in bold type in the rulebook. And then the last line on the card falls neatly into place with the new "Added Results" ruling. Otherwise, that last line on the AC card is completely superfluous. Why even bother putting it on there?

And I think Smuggler is correct in his assumption. I think there is a difference between cancelling dice and cancelling dice results.

No adding Hit results (or rather modifying dice results in general) happen when the rules/cards say they do. Which in most cases is step 3, but HLC modifies dice in step 2. However the rules are quite clean on when dice cancelling effects must happen. The fact that the cide can not be modofoed further just safeguards against future effects. Which with this new ruling is completely superfluous as you now can't modify the added results anyway.

Dude, we've had this argument before, and I respect where you're coming from, and I hope you respect my point of view as well.

But, you state the rules are clear on when dice cancelling must happen, and I can see it's also clear on when adding results must happen. It's got to be one or the other, as it can't be both. And to have it happen in the Compare step seems to be too much of an exception from the norm, to be probable to me.

So effectively, I think the whole point is at a stalemate until the card is officially released and we can finally ask Frank as to when it triggers. Everyone is just assuming that they have it right, and others are wrong.

And assumption leads to the Dark Side.

But, you state the rules are clear on when dice cancelling must happen, and I can see it's also clear on when adding results must happen. It's got to be one or the other, as it can't be both.

It can actually be both.

The "You can do this during..." limitations refer to standalone abilities that don't really have a trigger. I think of them as at-will abilities. These are things like spending a focus token, or activating Mercenary Copilot - the ability has no trigger, and modifies dice, so you can choose to activate them during these steps.

Your theory seems to assume that being restricted to adding dice during the step means they can ONLY be added during that step. But the same wording applies to all modifications, and we have an exception case with the HLC. Similarly, we have an exception case to the cancellation timing in the ion cannons. Triggered abilities can clearly cause modifications to occur outside the standard windows.

That's the problem with your theory - yes, we have rules that say when you can perform modifications... but nothing stops those modifications from occurring as part of another effect. You're making the leap that saying "You can do this here" means "You can't do this anywhere else", which is wrong.

And then the last line on the card falls neatly into place with the new "Added Results" ruling. Otherwise, that last line on the AC card is completely superfluous. Why even bother putting it on there?

With the new ruling, the added results cannot be modified at all, ever (well, barring something that explicitly contradicts that, at least). So there's no "otherwise" - the last line on the Corrector is superfluous, as it prohibits something the rules would never allow.

So why did they put that last line on the card? To me it indicates the modify step is the logical place for the card to be able to work. Your theory is it says "cancel" so it must be during the Compare step, but why does that overrule the Modify step where it says you add results?

With the new ruling, the last line has been made superfluous, I agree, but prior to that, how would the results have been able to be modified if it was outside the modify step?

So why did they put that last line on the card? To me it indicates the modify step is the logical place for the card to be able to work. Your theory is it says "cancel" so it must be during the Compare step, but why does that overrule the Modify step where it says you add results?

With the new ruling, the last line has been made superfluous, I agree, but prior to that, how would the results have been able to be modified if it was outside the modify step?

My guess is that it was future-proofing. They wanted it to be "These are the only results you can ever have when you use this" and not have to worry about future abilities that could trigger to modify those. Then they decided that was a good universal statement, and extended it to be a core rule.

I don't think it's a cancellation ability just because it says "cancel". I think it's a cancellation ability because that comes first. More importantly, it's the part that you can choose. You can't choose to just add two hits - it only comes as a followon effect. The only thing you can choose to activate is the cancellation, which puts it in the cancellation window, and the add just follows along, just like the ion cannon cancellation when its effect starts.

Read step 6 Compare Results. This quite clearly states that abilities that allow the player to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of this step.

Accuracy Correcter is the first card that allows you to cancel dice. Ion effects do not allow the player to cancel dice. They cancel dice after you compare results, meaning later that the start of step 6.

Your inability to read and understand my point makes me unlikely to trust your judgement. I am not arguing that the word "must" is in there - I am arguing about your understanding of the word "resolved".

Read this part, also on page 12:

During this step, players compare their dice results

to determine whether the defender was hit

Where in there does it say that players use abilities that cancel dice?

Where does it say anywhere else that players can use abilities that cancel dice? The "at the start of the step" is the only thing with any guidance. Cancellation abilities are not actually referenced anywhere else. You certainly can't choose to activate them during the Modify Step, which explicitly lists the operations you can.

Actually rmust be resolved means exactly that they must be executed at hhat time. Not that they should be resolved no later than that time.

As it was pointed out we have had this discussion before. Rjisbis justvthe firat time I have seen others agree with me on the timing.

Looki g forward to Franks response. Hopefully he will keep answering questions for unreleased matrrial.

Looking forward to Franks response. Hopefully he will keep answering questions for unreleased material.

Unless Frank and FFG have changed their policy of not discussing unreleased product, particularly as this is a wave 6 upgrade we are discussing and wave 5 is yet to actually officially hit the shelves itself, I would assume that we won't be getting an answer on this one….. probably till next year.

Edit:

I assume they made an exception for wave 5 cards seeing as anyone who bought them 2 whole months ago at Gencon have been asking questions I'm sure, and they clearly planned for Wave 5 to have been officially released by now.

The card gives the impression that it would be done during the attacker's chance to modify before the defenders rolls and that the final sentence is there to make it clear that abilities like Etahn's can't be applied.

This whole argument seems like arguing over whether or not Lone Wolf actually did anything or if Farlander could spend his stress if there were no eyeballs to flip.

It is interpretations like this that I don't agree with. You are inferring thongs that are not backed by any rules.

On the other hand I have based my interpretation on the rule in the last sentence on page 12 and the fact that HLC sets a presedent that dice can be modified outside step 3

This whole argument seems like arguing over whether or not Lone Wolf actually did anything or if Farlander could spend his stress if there were no eyeballs to flip.

It's probably worth noting here that Lone Wolf actually did not do anything as printed, which is why it got errata in the last FAQ despite not even being released yet (a first, I believe, although it shares that dubious distinction with Stay on Target). And there was never any question about the rules and precedent concerning Farlander, there were just people who refused to accept it.

Accuracy corrector does not allow any further modifications anyway. So the ruling does not affect it.

Edit:

Accuracy corrector triggers during compare results, not during modify attack dice. At the time being, there is no ability that modifies during compare results.

Kir Kanos and accuracy corrector are the only effects which add hit results. So no, I do not think there is anything the ruling applies to.

I don't think it triggers during compare results. I think it triggers during modify attack dice stage.

Now since wave 6 cards have not appeared on FAQ as of yet we might see something different but I am willing to bet that Accuracy corrector is on the modify attack dice step.

As for Mercenary Co-pilot it is quite clear on the accuracy corrector card "your dice cannot be modified again during this attack" If you had both accuracy corrector and mercenary copilot you could modify a hit into a critical hit but if you use accuracy corrector you will cancel your critical hit.

Now for Kir Kanos, Tie Interceptors does not have the sensor upgrade slot so accuracy corrector won't matter to that pilot.