I've yet to pick up the 7th ed 40k book yet. I've not 'quit' but following moving house, I need to lay out ~£200 on a 6x4 table to play on, £50 rulebook, minimum £60 on two codexes, more like £120 to bring all armies up to date and probably £20 on various extras like the apocalypse templates and mission cards. That's a whooping £330 investment just to be able to play again, and not considering the multitude of new models I'll most likely need to make my current armies work under the new rules and codexes.

I picked up the 40K 6th Edition rulebook, and I've played all of 4 or 5 games in the 3 years since. Some of my friends tell me 7th Edition is great, but I'm unconvinced it's worth the time, effort and expenditure.

To contrast, I've played 7 games of X-Wing in the last 5 days. Double figures in the last two weeks. And I haven't had this much fun with a miniatures game in years, if ever.

If you've played 6th you've played 7th pretty much, they added random objectives and pushed WFB style magic in to replace psychic powers thats pretty much all that changed.

7th was such a pathetic edition it broke my camels back and i quit.

I love Warhammer fantasy. Love it. The fluff, the models, the game itself. I love the epic feel of a large game board with huge units marching across the table at each other. Great stuff.

BUT

It's too freakin' expensive. It takes so long to paint up your army. It takes hours to play the game.

X-wing also has an amazing IP that we all know and love. It comes already painted to a nice standard, is 1/4 the price, and can be played in 1/3 the time. I love my Tomb Kings army. I will probably never sell it. But every week I find myself playing x-wing, not warhammer.

I'd like to add that the most "broken" aspects of X-wing are Biggs, Fat Han and Phantoms. the " "'s are denoting that i really don't think they are broken. Wheras 40K... where to start.

Invisibility, death star units, massive codex imbalances, wave serpents.... oh my!

Honestly I'm not sure that selling your collection is always the best idea. I sold mine to pay for X-Wing but some small part of me regrets it. Not so much because I miss playing 40k, but rather because I put a lot of time and work into them, and if GW ever puts out a good rule set maybe it would be worth playing.

Now that's not even a remote option, no way I'd go to that much work and spend that much money again.

Honestly I'm not sure that selling your collection is always the best idea. I sold mine to pay for X-Wing but some small part of me regrets it. Not so much because I miss playing 40k, but rather because I put a lot of time and work into them, and if GW ever puts out a good rule set maybe it would be worth playing.

Now that's not even a remote option, no way I'd go to that much work and spend that much money again.

This is true. it was a wrench to give up some of my GW stuff, but to be honest I had far too much anyway, some of which were never getting used again or even seeing the light of day, for that matter - the models were sat in my cupboard, gathering dust. I decided to let them go to someone who might actually paint/play with them, and at the same time put the money towards a game I would play and really enjoyed.

I played my first games of X-Wing last Christmas when a friend brought them around. Pretty much immediately afterwards I sold some unused Space Marine / Black Templars stuff on eBay along with some old school Slaanesh/Tzeentch Daemons (which went for a ridiculous amount), raising about £500. That got me some gaming mats, the core set, a number of expansions and pre-orders for the Tantive IV and Rebel Transport.

Recently I did the same again - a fully built but unpainted High Elf army, the rest of my Templars and some other bits and bobs raised another £350 or so. It was tough to let the Elves go, but I had to be a realist. It was the OCD collector in me that wanted to keep them - despite the intentions I was never likely going to paint them, I was unlikely to play them that often again so I may as well move them on.

I still have a fully painted 40K Eldar army sat at home, and a large Chaos fantasy army as well. If they don't get used soon, they might come in useful when Scum & Villany arrives.. or when we get word of Imperial Epic ships, maybe.

I had about 1500pts of completely painted Dark Angels. I had a bunch more that ranged from new in the box to partially painted. However, with a wife, dog, work, and a social life, it is too hard to find time to paint, let alone play a four hour game of Warhammer.

I fought it hard, real hard, but I came to the realization I just wasn't getting the full worth out of the hobby. Also, my man cave seems to be much less cluttered. Luckily, all of my small ships still fit in my Terminator trays for my Battlefoam bags.

Honestly I'm not sure that selling your collection is always the best idea. I sold mine to pay for X-Wing but some small part of me regrets it. Not so much because I miss playing 40k, but rather because I put a lot of time and work into them, and if GW ever puts out a good rule set maybe it would be worth playing.

Now that's not even a remote option, no way I'd go to that much work and spend that much money again.

You are probably regretting the selling of your miniatures because you painted them up and put time and careful effort into it. I read somewhere that it is part of the perception of happiness that people are happier when they buy something and can put their own effort onto it. If they buy it straight off the shelf as is then they don't care as much for it and aren't as happy as a product where they add a few things to it.

That is why you have fully powedered pancake mix, where you just add water, and a pancake mix where you add water and eggs. The latter is done for the customers satisfaction and happiness only as powdered egg is just as easy to put into the mix that's in the box but they feel happier adding something more into the mix to make it their own through their own efforts.

Puts a different spin on pursuit of happiness.

I am a fan of eBay... and selling off armies piece-mail. It is a bit more labor intensive, but you will make more off of them that way. Selling off your army in bulk will insure that you will be taking a beating on the price.

I am a fan of eBay... and selling off armies piece-mail. It is a bit more labor intensive, but you will make more off of them that way. Selling off your army in bulk will insure that you will be taking a beating on the price.

Agreed. I sold an Imperial Guard on eBay a few years ago. I think I ended up only getting around 40% of the retail value. That didn't include the costs of paint and the army transport cases and trays.

Another 40K refugee here. Selling off my 3rd army (Eldar) that I bought used. Actually made enough of a profit to fund my X-Wing game with just selling 1/2 of my Eldar army. Now that I've played X-Wing for a few months, I'm gonna sell my 2nd army too (Alpha Legion). Necrons will be my first love and I definitely won't sell those (since I actually painted all of them), but I already sold boxes of new Necron stuff that I didn't even open from years ago.

I do regret paying $80 USD to buy the 7th Ed Codex, just to learn how to play X-Wing the day after. I haven't even opened that codex yet.

40K fluff will always hold a special place in my heart, but like many here have said, I don't think I'll ever have time again to build, paint, and play 40K, just because of the time and money involved.

FFG, with their great rules, great product, ease of play, and AMAZING customer service, has won me over completely.

Just saying .. it seems there are plenty of players converting from 40K to XWing. If you're a 40K player it seems that every man and his dog are selling their 40K armies to buy more X-wing awesomeness. Win for you fellas right!? A market flooded with 40K products means low prices,

So, lets share our techniques. Is ebay the way to go? What's the best way to offload our shabby umpteen million points worth of 40K trash to get the most X-Wing gold? I really, really ummm .. want to help out .. umm .. want to help the 40K .. ummm .. community.. yes.

I used eBay to unload 4 of my 5 armies in the past two months. I got good prices by following these rules:

1) low ball the initial bid.

2) offer free p+p.

3) ignore international buyers.

4) don't separate out things like cases, books, templates, collectors items - add them to existing lots to make them more desirable.

I never paid more than £20 for postage, and I'm convinced I got a lot more than I would have if there was a £20 shipping cost attached. Only reason I didn't sell the 5th on eBay is because the guy who bought army 4 offered to do a private sale for any other 40k I had.

I wouldn't call X-wing awesome for Warhammer 40,000 players because if they were Warhammer 40,000 players then they would still be playing Warhammer 40,000. To them Warhammer 40,000 offers a different perspective behind table top miniature games of monstrous aliens and power armored clad human warriors getting into the thick of a melee battle with chainsaws and explosions ripping into each other. It is different from say starships and has a much more rich background than Star Wars as the Good Guys are hard to tell and often appear more like the antagonists from stories like Star Wars with their polar moral spectrum of light side vs dark side.

Now what X-wing is awesome for is table top miniature players. It is a good game in its own right and the Star Wars background is a bonus with iconic ships. If you like Table Top miniature games then X-wing is something you should check out.

Point is that while all Warhammer 40,000 players are table-top miniature game players, not all table-top miniature game players are 40K players. You will still have 40k players, and if the rule book or codex get too bad then they will go back to their earlier collection and brush the dust off of earlier codexes (such as ones from 3rd edition). When Warmachine/Hordes came out it didn't pull all the Warhammer 40,000 players from 40k. It gave table-top game players other options. X-wing has done the same thing, another option for those that play table-top miniature games.

I wouldn't call X-wing awesome for Warhammer 40,000 players because if they were Warhammer 40,000 players then they would still be playing Warhammer 40,000. To them Warhammer 40,000 offers a different perspective behind table top miniature games of monstrous aliens and power armored clad human warriors getting into the thick of a melee battle with chainsaws and explosions ripping into each other. It is different from say starships and has a much more rich background than Star Wars as the Good Guys are hard to tell and often appear more like the antagonists from stories like Star Wars with their polar moral spectrum of light side vs dark side.

Now what X-wing is awesome for is table top miniature players. It is a good game in its own right and the Star Wars background is a bonus with iconic ships. If you like Table Top miniature games then X-wing is something you should check out.

Point is that while all Warhammer 40,000 players are table-top miniature game players, not all table-top miniature game players are 40K players. You will still have 40k players, and if the rule book or codex get too bad then they will go back to their earlier collection and brush the dust off of earlier codexes (such as ones from 3rd edition). When Warmachine/Hordes came out it didn't pull all the Warhammer 40,000 players from 40k. It gave table-top game players other options. X-wing has done the same thing, another option for those that play table-top miniature games.

Sorry fella, i don't think you read the original post. The OP was making the observation that a lot of people on these forums are selling off their 40K collections. Therefore, it is a great time if you're a 40K player as there are plenty of collections going on ebay .. therefore, maybe some cheaper models.

Games Workshop died the day it ceased to be a privately held company. There is nothing wrong with a corporation but that is a harsh conversion from a gamer run private company to corporate entity. The difference before and after were drastic. In the early days we used to call GW in the UK from Hawaii and speak to Rick and Andy. Today you call GW and get a Troll.

I cant say much about it or i'd break confindences but if GW *hadnt* been bought out and floated shareheld then it might have ended up being something you'd hate even more.

it was done to pre-empt some people taking the company down an even worse route than the 'space marines sell, that makes profit for shareholders, so lets make more space marines' avenue currently pursued.

Last time i was privy to sales figures around 2006 imperial space marines made up over 75 per cent of 40k sales, about 10 per cent were chaos space marines, the remainder all the other races.. I think Orks were about 5 per cent at the time.

Even worse when you broke down the ranges. Pre plastic guard when the most numerous army you could have (IG) was all in metals and cost a fortune 'catachans' sold about 70 per cent better than anything else... its why plastic catachans were made rather than a generic guardsman.

Probably the worst thing was the mark up to the customer. As staff we got things at 'lead weight' (wierdly plastics were at the same price per KG) and this was about £27 per kilo.

You'd go down to mailorder in your lunchhour.. buy an entire army of say undead (skellys were light per figure) and it would cost you about £30 for something that would have cost the customer *hundreds*

Any idea how many leman russ sprues you can get for a kilogramme? Its a *lot*.

The stuff cost pennies to make once the initial mould/press costs had been covered but we were charging a fortune for stuff.

The problem is that while in general the studio staff are all still hobbyists and make stuff they think is cool, (and cool is subjective) and the management to a degree are the same (although around the time i was leaving they were putting a lot of th e'old guard' out to pasture and recruiting people who knew what they were doing.

To give you an idea, it always felt like GW had a 'least dangerous' policy to project management. If something new came up then rather than recruit someone outside the company who could do it well they'd just pick someone they thought had some free time and was least likely to screw it up.

Bringing in people like Mark Wells was an attempt to put real businessmen into the business. And funnily enough I remember being called into Mark Wells office around 2004/2005 and being asked how much i thought (as a gamer) we could realistically get away with pumping up the price of regiment sets to hit that 'premium price'. I have to say I was in favour of keeping them low but I dont think (as history shows) he agreed with me

The problem is after a while there you get divorced form the reality of playing.

Your minis are at most half price. if you're in a position like i was in as a dept manager it was pretty much all free. You either got management samples of all new stuff or you knew people who would give you stuff. If the guy from plastics came up from wisbeach with test runs of the new Tau he's swing by my desk and give me a stack of them to build up and try out etc.

But you forget two important things... one how much it *really* costs to play, you build these conversions and then realise it would cost a player £80 to make that one figure as it use a different limb off four figures, a gun off another and shield from another etc. You also forget what people are exicted about. You've been seeing , lets say, Tau in development, you've had early sprues, you built you army three months ago... you're excited about the concept stuff for say ogre kingdoms (i wasnt i thought they were toss, its just an example) and you've forgot about Tau but you go to events and forget the customer isnt where you are. You lose touch.

Part of me worries FFG does this to a degree by revealing too much about stuff months in the future and diffusing the excitement of the current release.

I've just got rebel aces, i am excited about it but im also not giving it my full attention as im speculating about S&V

Anyway so the problem a lot of the time is that withing GW you're in a bubble. You dont see what the end result gamer is really doing, you dont see until you get sales figures who is buying what or if you're overpricing yourself. The other problem you have is that when codexs get written some people are obvious choices as they play that army (say Phil Kelly for skaven at one time) but sometimes no one plays that army and you get a weak army codex (6th ed dark elves... i did my best to fix them during playtesting but i didnt write it and i wasnt in games dev so only had the slightest influence on things like points costs on that one).

One of the worst things we ever did was not having focus groups. The logic form on high was 'we're all gamers, we know what gamers want'.

while 'design by comittee' or being guided by forums is equally as unsound as a design/games dev concept, the rrognace of 'we know what you want' was outstanding.

Personally i used to conduct unofficial 'focus groups' anyway. If i'd ran a tounry or event I'd ask representatives from gaming groups, players i knew who were quite switched on guys etc and a e newbies to stay behind and have a pint or two on the house and give me honest feedback on how the event could be made better, wht was good or bad about the game at the mo etc etc. While my findings had *minimal* impact on grand strategy it did mean i could put an events schedule out that consisted of the sot of gamespeople wanted to play.

The massive irony was that in our lunches and after work a hell of a lot of us were playing 'rapid fire' 20mm WWII games, battletech or that pirates ship came that came in blind bags that wizards of the coast did as you just get sick of warhammer after five years of it day in and day out and need a break.

At the time it was very easy to almost *live* at GW HQ as you'd finish at five thirty then go upstairs to the bar and play some games, leave for home around closing time! Good way of getting us to pump our wages back into the business if you're cynical

There was also a lot of encouragment to do social activities together, a lot of staff parties etc and the danger was that your work group was also your social group which just became dangerous when someone said something drunk that they probably shouldnt have said in the company bar then got into trouble for it later.

...the danger was that your work group was also your social group which just became dangerous when someone said something drunk that they probably shouldnt have said in the company bar then got into trouble for it later.

...go on...

Oh i had a mate punch someone out in the bar once.

It was two guy who worked in UK trade sales and they ended up having this row but my mate was not sacked becuase he argued GW had a drinking culture and he'd been pressured into drinking (which was partly true) with someone he hated.

Quite often on a friday night you'd have two free pints put behind the bar for staff as an edn of week thank you, usually after an early finish after a team meeting on a friday.

I cant remember details and woulnt say who if i could ten years later but more than once would someone be drunkenly slagging off someone who was sitting behind them.

I can rememebr who it was but i do remember once someone having to grovel out of a sacking because they had been slating Mark Wells (head of GW UK at the time) with Mark being behind him in the queue....

Mind you i've done similar, i once speed dialed a colleague and launched into a rant about our tosser of a boss and then was moritifed to hear my boss say 'you're sacked' as i'd accidentally speed dialed my boss.

I got my job back as he needed me more than i needed him on that mag but it was close...

...

There was also a lot of encouragment to do social activities together, a lot of staff parties etc and the danger was that your work group was also your social group which just became dangerous when someone said something drunk that they probably shouldnt have said in the company bar then got into trouble for it later.

Ah, the memories, watching Marines getting a drink with all the NCOs SNCOs and Officers. 1 brawl later and the following monday morning having to stand witness to the NJP. Note to everyone "STAY OUT OF BASE CLUBS"

a good mate of mine joined group studio around 2003. we had to work briefly together and at the time we were just work acquaintances not the good friends we are now.

I said discretely while we were discussing the project (in the bar.. gives you an idea of what it was like there) "Dont get matey with people, keep your personal life and your work life seperate and you'll survive here longer without the politics"

He's still there.

Gadge .. amusingly, you made the job sound pretty sweet mate. I just saw a bunch of awesome keywords thrown on the screen. Free beers .. YAY .. gaming time .. WIN!... early finish on Fridays ... HUZZAH! ... cheap minis .. WOOOP, etc .. I've had some great jobs in my day .. but nothing that offered sweet perks like that.

But yes, I understand when politics gets in the way of a great job. Stay away from universities .. moreso .. academics with authority.

I wouldn't call X-wing awesome for Warhammer 40,000 players because if they were Warhammer 40,000 players then they would still be playing Warhammer 40,000. To them Warhammer 40,000 offers a different perspective behind table top miniature games of monstrous aliens and power armored clad human warriors getting into the thick of a melee battle with chainsaws and explosions ripping into each other. It is different from say starships and has a much more rich background than Star Wars as the Good Guys are hard to tell and often appear more like the antagonists from stories like Star Wars with their polar moral spectrum of light side vs dark side.

Now what X-wing is awesome for is table top miniature players. It is a good game in its own right and the Star Wars background is a bonus with iconic ships. If you like Table Top miniature games then X-wing is something you should check out.

Point is that while all Warhammer 40,000 players are table-top miniature game players, not all table-top miniature game players are 40K players. You will still have 40k players, and if the rule book or codex get too bad then they will go back to their earlier collection and brush the dust off of earlier codexes (such as ones from 3rd edition). When Warmachine/Hordes came out it didn't pull all the Warhammer 40,000 players from 40k. It gave table-top game players other options. X-wing has done the same thing, another option for those that play table-top miniature games.

Sorry fella, i don't think you read the original post. The OP was making the observation that a lot of people on these forums are selling off their 40K collections. Therefore, it is a great time if you're a 40K player as there are plenty of collections going on ebay .. therefore, maybe some cheaper models.

Sorry that I misunderstood if that was the point you were trying to make. From the first post it sounded like asking for advice on how to sell models as the "great GW exodus" begins. That plus the title gave me some confusion thinking you were addressing other 40k dissidents.

Gadge .. amusingly, you made the job sound pretty sweet mate. I just saw a bunch of awesome keywords thrown on the screen. Free beers .. YAY .. gaming time .. WIN!... early finish on Fridays ... HUZZAH! ... cheap minis .. WOOOP, etc .. I've had some great jobs in my day .. but nothing that offered sweet perks like that.

But yes, I understand when politics gets in the way of a great job. Stay away from universities .. moreso .. academics with authority.

I agree on the University front. recently left one. So many people in meetings that will have suggestions for a project just so they get their name in the minutes... and apparently every faculty needs a representative or two there.

GW HQ is a great place to work for a year or two.

More if you can break past the middle management barrier, you really have to be 'one of the guys' and your face had to fit.

I was a dept manager and just hit a glass ceiling but then i had rubbed up a few senior managers the wrong way by being quite outspoken.

But its great for a while really good fun.

While you do get free toys and get to play games at work you do start of on ridiclously low wages as they know there are hundreds of people who want jobs in the creative depts.

At one point i was doing a 35K (uk GBP) a year job for about 17k because people are desperate to work there.

Most the guys in mail order and retail or bugmans shared houses as you just cant run a home on your own on the wages they were paying.

I think i started as a sub editor at Black Library in 2000 on just under £10,000 a year. But i'd just left the army and really wanted the job so when they said 'what wage do you expect' i deliberately bid low then worked my way up fast by performing well.

Its a career for a *few* but its a cracking job for many.

I'd recomend any gamer to work there for a year or two at least if you could afford to as its fun (or was) ... there just comes a time when you realise free toys are great but you cant eat lead and plastic (well you can.. you can eat *anything* at least once if you dont mind dying afterwards).

Subsidized toys lose their novelty and fun when you have a house crammed full of stuff you're never going to paint.

GW HQ is a great place to work for a year or two.

More if you can break past the middle management barrier, you really have to be 'one of the guys' and your face had to fit.

I was a dept manager and just hit a glass ceiling but then i had rubbed up a few senior managers the wrong way by being quite outspoken.

But its great for a while really good fun.

While you do get free toys and get to play games at work you do start of on ridiclously low wages as they know there are hundreds of people who want jobs in the creative depts.

At one point i was doing a 35K (uk GBP) a year job for about 17k because people are desperate to work there.

Most the guys in mail order and retail or bugmans shared houses as you just cant run a home on your own on the wages they were paying.

I think i started as a sub editor at Black Library in 2000 on just under £10,000 a year. But i'd just left the army and really wanted the job so when they said 'what wage do you expect' i deliberately bid low then worked my way up fast by performing well.

Its a career for a *few* but its a cracking job for many.

I'd recomend any gamer to work there for a year or two at least if you could afford to as its fun (or was) ... there just comes a time when you realise free toys are great but you cant eat lead and plastic (well you can.. you can eat *anything* at least once if you dont mind dying afterwards).

Subsidized toys lose their novelty and fun when you have a house crammed full of stuff you're never going to paint.

I'm kinda glad I didn't get that job at white dwarf I applied for, but I got to meet fat bloke and got a tour of the office so it wasn't a wasted trip to Nottingham.

But yeah GW has always treated the staff poorly not giving them proper breaks and the like, I used to do lunch runs or grab them drinks from the local shop because they couldn't get away them selves, course that was way back when staff were allowed to be your mates, no wonder the stores are always empty these days.