Just saying .. it seems there are plenty of players converting from 40K to XWing. If you're a 40K player it seems that every man and his dog are selling their 40K armies to buy more X-wing awesomeness. Win for you fellas right!? A market flooded with 40K products means low prices,

So, lets share our techniques. Is ebay the way to go? What's the best way to offload our shabby umpteen million points worth of 40K trash to get the most X-Wing gold? I really, really ummm .. want to help out .. umm .. want to help the 40K .. ummm .. community.. yes.

Seriously, pretty much ANY FFG game is awesome if you're a 40K player.

Once you realise there are games out there which are not only fun to play but actually affordable as well, there's pretty much no going back.

edit: incidentally, only a couple of weeks ago I ditched a full High Elf army plus several Space Marine vehicles and other assorted unpainted, unassembled, never used GW models on eBay. Guess what the proceeds went on?

I'm tempted to claim that just about ANY game is awesome compared to the slop GW produces these days.

There is always Facebook groups to sell your stuff.

Got a bunch of stuff to ditch myself.

Have to agree it's not just the price it's the utter lack of concern for their customers, I think the fact kirby wrote in his own words they don't know what their customers want and don't care enough to find out is what finally removed the scales from people's eyes.

what GW *had* going for it (way back when i got into it until i stopped working there) was the sense of 'community'

They were 'high street' in the Uk and you could pop in and talk geek all day (pre internet),play the odd game... aspire to be like the long haired dude who sat and painted minis all day and got paid for it.

Up until about 1990. After the buy out and going shareheld they tried to have a strategy for every home in the uk to have a copy of warhammer, be a bit like having a copy of monopoly in most house or cluedo. They did a lot of co operation with milton bradly and other more traditional toy lines. They targetted younger players... everything was painted red and everyone shouted waaagh a lot... they thrived.

Then the pokemon craze hit, kids stopped wanting warhammer, the older players had left as it was marketed for kids and thei stock price plummeted (the canny held on to their shared or bought up), rumours abounded hasbro was going to buy GW out!

But they clawed back the older gamers with things like necromunda and the grittier looking 40k (note around 1996 things stop being painted primary colours so much). Tough lesson learnt by GW

For a good while they had a policy of *not* overselling to kids, they also encouraged older gamers back in... mainly so they could say to a mum and dad 'look little johnny will be doing this hobby for years... look at beardy dave back there driblling over his paints in the corner... hes 40 and still plays!'

The problem is they are a shareheld company. They make a profit every year ... but if its 27 million and the year before it was 30 million the shareholders get whiffy about it. For a while while i was there we had meetings about 'premium pricing'... i.e how much could you make something cost before it was 'too much' and you saw a steady creep in prices of regiment boxs while the starter boxs to suck you in got cheaper.

The core problem Gw always had was 'customer retention'. The classic example is the kid who plays at 12 to about 15 or 16 then discovers beer and girls, which are far more interesting to most guys, GW expect the 18-25 market to drop off drastically and the idea was to pull them back in once they were more settled / married with gaming clubs and more 'grown up' things like forgeworld.

Unfortunately they have priced themselves out of most peoples markets.

I put together a 3000 point skaven army for 3rd edition warhammer fantasy. All lovely models in lead, sculpted by Jes Goodwin... probably a few hundred minis and by buying carefully on ebay i probably spent about £200 tops.

You cant get started in warhammer in *plastic* now for that.

Basically the 'buy in' for warhammer (and 40k) is about £300 for a playable force.

In xwing its what... a core set and two rebel ship expansion as a minimum.

In the Uk you could field a 100 point force of say XXX or XBX for about £50

empire bit more expensive unless you bolt phantoms or defenders onto the core ships.

But all the same cheap game to get into. Also great marketing strategy of putting rules and cards with the ships.

I've worked in wargames marketing and i *hate* the fact i bought an e wing that i dont like just for the cards as i know i'm being 'played' but on the whole less so then GW do.

But the thing GW do well that most other companies simply cant is 'have a high street presence' and they are *very* good at letting mums and dads use it as a creche while they go shopping and also at looking after parents and not making it bewildering when they go to buy xmas presents (one year we even had bags made up that said the 'grim dark fuschia' in floral looking script so they wouldnt obviously be GW bags and giveaway where they had been shopping!). But we briefed staff on having a 'parents area' , making them a cup of tea, advising what we thought their kids wanted and deciphering a scrawled wish list to santa.

FFG have sort of cracked this a bit with getting xwing into supermarket chains and books stores like tescos and Waterstones etc but its not quite the same as having an FFG store you can wander into, have a chat, sit down play a game over a coffee etc.

What really grinds my gears is the codexes and army books they charge you £50 for the rules then £30 for the army book then they've started the supplement nonsense for another £30 so before you've even touched a model you're down £110 and that buys alot of x-wing, then there is the limited editions.

When I started in the 90s I spent a tenner on the space wolf 2nd ed book and around £50 on lead grey hunters, bloodclaws and Bjorn and back in those days that was around 1000 points which is what you played in store.

Now they are advertising unread armies for £500 on the web page and I struggle to comprehend how they fail to realise how that's not a selling point but a big warning sign.

Wait... you can buy Xwing stuff in Tescos? (No that's not all I got from that, I agree with all points but that one surprised me).

Dreamblade was a good game compared to 40k...

Right now i'm kinda minimally on 40K (a friend plays a lot) still kinda building a dark elf army kinda sorta but mainly working on Mordheim warbands.

Mainly X-wing though.

I have about 4000 points of Space Marines and 3000 points of Tyranids .. in a box .. that probably won't see natural light in the next year.

I have about 200 points of X-Wing awesomeness .. that will see light in the next 24 hours.

yay

I did a study abroad semester at the University of Winchester back in 2008. My buddies had just gotten me into Tau the previous semester, so I was all gung-ho and excited to find a GW shop downtown. It was awesome, I could wander down, talk shop, and kill an afternoon with fellow geeks. About halfway through the semester, the old manager was swapped out with a new one, and he declared people were no longer welcome to just come in and shoot the breeze. You either had to be playing, painting, or buying something. there were suddenly a lot less people in there...

Gadge .. you're talking about basic marketing principles.

GW places emphasis on position. Their dross is every where. They have presence. They have their product in all the right places. Eg. mum and dad can do the shopping while johnny goes to the GW store and plays games with his friends.

FFG throws its eggs into the pricing basket. For a fraction of the price you can play the X-wing game ... but where?

As you said, we get older and aren't reliant on that lift to the mall anymore. GW loses us. But who cares, we have already spent a tonne of cash there and 20 new kids are in the store.

It's exactly the same as telephone companies (Aussies, I use Optus as an example). Some companies offer deals to new customers .. yet zero rewards to existing customers. It is easier keeping customers than finding them .. this is fact.

Also, word of mouth is proven to be the best advertisement. When was the last time you saw an advertisement for any FFG product? Zero. Consider how many posts we see on these very forums titled "help with introducing friends to X-Wing ..". You just don't see these threads on 40K forums.

FFG do an amazing job at both gaining customers through their product (Star Wars license) and pricing strategies .. and retaining customers through promotional support and customer service. Well done FFG. I tip my hat to you fellas. Your product is good .. but your marketing strategy is better.

Just saying .. it seems there are plenty of players converting from 40K to XWing. If you're a 40K player it seems that every man and his dog are selling their 40K armies to buy more X-wing awesomeness. Win for you fellas right!? A market flooded with 40K products means low prices,

So, lets share our techniques. Is ebay the way to go? What's the best way to offload our shabby umpteen million points worth of 40K trash to get the most X-Wing gold? I really, really ummm .. want to help out .. umm .. want to help the 40K .. ummm .. community.. yes.

I used a garbage can.

I am not going to try to villainize GW for wanting to make money. They are a for profit company. They don't do what they do as a sacrifice to our geeky need to play games. And in comparison to other hobbies, like say building motorcycles, rally racing, skiing or even golf. GW is very reasonably priced. Unfortunately that reasonable price is too high for me.

I literally spent years waiting for them to release just the right Dark Elf Release. I had a couple of things I was looking for. 1-plasitic witch elves that didn't look like the cartoon version of the background dances at a White Snake Concert. And something to make the Executioners not lame.

And for the first time in my life GW released an army book (and accompanying models) that was just what I wanted. But with the new "horde rules" and price changes, I realized it was going to take hundreds (plural) just to update my already playable Dark Elf Army. I just couldn't do it.

But if Warhammer and Warhammer 40k were as fun as X-wing I would probably still be playing them.

But those games are so much about what lists you bring, and so much less (compared to X-wing) about how you play your army.

Sure I love how cheap X-wing is (compared to GW) but I love even more that it is just more fun.

I am not going to try to villainize GW for wanting to make money. They are a for profit company. They don't do what they do as a sacrifice to our geeky need to play games. And in comparison to other hobbies, like say building motorcycles, rally racing, skiing or even golf. GW is very reasonably priced. Unfortunately that reasonable price is too high for me.

I literally spent years waiting for them to release just the right Dark Elf Release. I had a couple of things I was looking for. 1-plasitic witch elves that didn't look like the cartoon version of the background dances at a White Snake Concert. And something to make the Executioners not lame.

And for the first time in my life GW released an army book (and accompanying models) that was just what I wanted. But with the new "horde rules" and price changes, I realized it was going to take hundreds (plural) just to update my already playable Dark Elf Army. I just couldn't do it.

But if Warhammer and Warhammer 40k were as fun as X-wing I would probably still be playing them.

But those games are so much about what lists you bring, and so much less (compared to X-wing) about how you play your army.

Sure I love how cheap X-wing is (compared to GW) but I love even more that it is just more fun.

The placcy shadow warriors are awesome. (mordheim warband awaaay + female heads, woo!)

I am building regiments of Dark Riders for my Fark Elves (i've typoed that so many times that i just call them Fark Elves now), So far I've found assembling them to be a complete (sentence redacted).

My whole thing about the 40k (or GW for that matter) "versus" X-wing of FFG games is the time in the week I have. I had a one point about ~3000 points of Marines, 1000 of Tau and a 3500 point Empire army that I had no time to play. So whenever I got time to play I was playing against more seasoned players who play more and know the game better, so I get beat. Not that that's a problem, I enjoy a good close loss any day over a huge win that I just blast every model off the table (of course I play to win but I want all parties to enjoy themselves).

I have a wife, dog and full-time career that sees me getting to game maybe 1-2 times a week (if lucky) so when I actually get to game I want to make the most of it. It takes hours (plural) to just get one 40k game in. I can play 2-3 X-wing games in during that time! I spent all saturday (11am-9pm) playing in a fun 40k tournament a couple weeks ago (went 0-3 as well...) and I just kept thinking of all the x-wing I could have been playing!

It's all about enjoyment for me. If I was having fun with 40k and fantasy I would still be playing them more, but I wasn't so I jumped into x-wing, selling my Tau, Empire and over half of my marines.

Fly casual fellas

I used to play Warhammer Fantasy because I liked a game with actual strategy instead of just lining up and shooting each other

What burnt me was the game balance and game play. I played Orcs and Goblins for 13 years and seen their fortunes just wane. In 6th Ed WHFB, it used to be about Core units that were trying to outmanuever the other...with some elites thrown in. It was a good game. 7th Ed made special units silly tough. Dark Elves can charge your unit of Orcs. They attack first, kill the whole front rank, and you don't get to fight back. Then, they cause Fear with a magic banner and you auto-break. So....your big unit of tough guys just died without rolling a single die. 8th Ed made the core game better and is the best that I've played, but the rules changed the whole game. To sell more minis and make it "epic". The game isn't about Core units anymore. It's about your uber unit or your uber monster that smashes face. The only real Core unit you want to take is as one giant block to house all your special characters, magic banners, etc. Doesn't matter if you get flanked. You can still kick in teeth.

I also have to comment on the cost differences in the UK and US as I spent a bit of time in the UK. Yes, there are overall price differences for gas and housing and other stuff. Still, the price of a combo meal is about the same in USD and BPS. The amount you have in your budget to spend on hobby is about the same each month no matter what country you live in. With the exchange rate almost doubling the price of GW, it's even worse in the US than in the UK. People complain about spending 12 BPS on something when we are spending $20! It's criminal.

What I love about X-wing is the game balance. You can take almost any list and if you play it well, you can win. You don't have to play the (insert unbalanced army of the quarter) to win.

Just weeks ago, I touted that I was not going to sell my Dark Angels army. As of Sunday, I began listing my models, books, and accessories on eBay.

@Hobojebus, you were right.

"FFG throws its eggs into the pricing basket. For a fraction of the price you can play the X-wing game ... but where?"

Many of our FLGS have gaming groups that use them. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday you can play X-wing at 3 stores in our city. Every now and then a tournament pops up to draw us all in. Regionals was 31 people filling up a local store.

Hobby stores are becoming gaming hubs. The most recent one has more play area, a movie screen for movies, a games collection so you can try it out before you play it. All that's missing from this place is a small snack/sandwhich add on and you wouldn't need to leave the store.

My whole thing about the 40k (or GW for that matter) "versus" X-wing of FFG games is the time in the week I have. I had a one point about ~3000 points of Marines, 1000 of Tau and a 3500 point Empire army that I had no time to play. So whenever I got time to play I was playing against more seasoned players who play more and know the game better, so I get beat. Not that that's a problem, I enjoy a good close loss any day over a huge win that I just blast every model off the table (of course I play to win but I want all parties to enjoy themselves).

I have a wife, dog and full-time career that sees me getting to game maybe 1-2 times a week (if lucky) so when I actually get to game I want to make the most of it. It takes hours (plural) to just get one 40k game in. I can play 2-3 X-wing games in during that time! I spent all saturday (11am-9pm) playing in a fun 40k tournament a couple weeks ago (went 0-3 as well...) and I just kept thinking of all the x-wing I could have been playing!

It's all about enjoyment for me. If I was having fun with 40k and fantasy I would still be playing them more, but I wasn't so I jumped into x-wing, selling my Tau, Empire and over half of my marines.

Fly casual fellas

This is huge for me, too. The pricing/game balance stuff is also an issue, but just having the opportunity to play more than one game in an evening is great. The thing is, I don't feel like it's less of a game. I feel like I'm making the same number of interesting decisions, it's just quicker. To be fair, though, I often feel that way about small-point 40k games also, but everybody wants to play big armies.

Killteam is FTW.

Before I initially found X-Wing, I looked at 40K. The models looked great and I could see myself getting behind the whole painting thing. I then looked at the lore wiki site and found the story and concepts interesting (and read a good deal of it). The next logical questions after that was 1 - what are the rules and 2 - how much would it cost... and that's where it failed.

For the life of me, I could not find the rules and the videos that I found on youtube left me with more questions than answers. When asking a friend about it, he told me that his group mostly painted the models... because they could not truly get the hang of the rules (and he never even played his army). The prices were also very steep. So while it looked like a great game and people playing it on youtube made it look fun, I just could not move past that lack of information.

Then I found X-Wing which was playable out of the box, no need to paint (but you could), much less expensive and all the rules were available online. Better yet, I could easily find sites detailing all the upgrade cards, even with full resolution pictures of them, and these sites were not being shut down (to my surprise). The lore is also pretty much there and let's face it, I was a Star Wars junkie to begin with.

Now we have a Facebook group in our area with over a hundred members with favored shops per day of the week, with the group growing steadily. 20 years ago, I don't think that FFG could have succeeded on such a scale, but the presence of social media networking has magnified the effect of word to mouth greatly. Combine that with an interesting game and a company with good service... and you end up with all of us here

I've yet to pick up the 7th ed 40k book yet. I've not 'quit' but following moving house, I need to lay out ~£200 on a 6x4 table to play on, £50 rulebook, minimum £60 on two codexes, more like £120 to bring all armies up to date and probably £20 on various extras like the apocalypse templates and mission cards. That's a whooping £330 investment just to be able to play again, and not considering the multitude of new models I'll most likely need to make my current armies work under the new rules and codexes.

At this point, as a 30 something gamer who's been playing for nigh on 20 years, I am already thousands upon thousands of pounds into 40k, and the constant updating and tweeking of rules, and more specifically the cost of keeping up to date with these changes has worn my patience out.

Want to know why I got into x-wing? Because I was able to read the FULL official rules on FFG's website before I even spent a single penny on thier system. I was blown away. GW were asking for over a £100 off me in new rules just to be able to use my current collection, and here's FFG giving me thier rules for free. I instantly knew I was in love. Plus the rules looked pretty swish, which clearly helped.

If FFG. hadn't done this, I doubt is have ever gotten into xwing, but knowing the rules and seeig that FFG is willing to give you them for free gave me so much confidence in the system I just jumped right in. I'm now at about 250 points of imperials, and still haven't spent as much as it would have cost to get just my 40k rules up to date, I can squeeze games in of an evening and I can even fit my 3x3 matt on my kitchen table.

What a ramble, anyway the point is I've not 'quit' 40k, but every time I look at updating my 40k collection, I just can't justify the expense when I can buy another ship for £12 quid and be equally happy with my gaming time anyway.

I've yet to pick up the 7th ed 40k book yet. I've not 'quit' but following moving house, I need to lay out ~£200 on a 6x4 table to play on, £50 rulebook, minimum £60 on two codexes, more like £120 to bring all armies up to date and probably £20 on various extras like the apocalypse templates and mission cards. That's a whooping £330 investment just to be able to play again, and not considering the multitude of new models I'll most likely need to make my current armies work under the new rules and codexes.

I picked up the 40K 6th Edition rulebook, and I've played all of 4 or 5 games in the 3 years since. Some of my friends tell me 7th Edition is great, but I'm unconvinced it's worth the time, effort and expenditure.

To contrast, I've played 7 games of X-Wing in the last 5 days. Double figures in the last two weeks. And I haven't had this much fun with a miniatures game in years, if ever.