Im in the same boat. Im trying to work out a decent build that lets me use Rexler Brath and Echo together. Cheesy i know but the same thing happens every time. It boils down to taking 1 spare Tie Fighter.

Even dropping down to one or the other, the most effective option would just be a swarm of something far less useful.

Echo w/VI, ACD

Brath

OGP

7 points of upgrades. Easily a solid list (I run something similar with Fel instead of Echo) but it would be ideal with Vessery instead of Brath and get yourself two more points for something like FCS on Echo. That's a very good list.

I do kinda like that but i was put off by the naked shuttle. Its easy to forget that, besides the Agility the shuttle has some decent stats.

The obvious Temptation is a HLC on Brath but it may be better to add to the Shuttle for support. Ill have a think about that, thanks.

I really like my Tactical shuttle (2x tacticians). It makes for some really tough choices for an opponent since they really don't want to be in R2 of that, but paying attention to it along with Brath and Echo would be a pain. That leaves three points for predator on Brath. But, with no upgrades, the naked shuttle is often ignored to the detriment of the opponent...

Other good upgrades would be Rebel Captive on Echo (counters other high PS phantoms), Vader on shuttle, and FCS on Echo.

Is this even a serious thread? You honestly cannot pick out great Imperial ships 25 points or under? I find that hard to believe.

ALL of them, with the exception of the TIE-ADV.

A couple TIE Academy, Interceptor, Shuttle with EU. All great choices.

The topic is about 20-25 point ships. Not 25 point and under ships.

Yeah, dangling options, and just that unless you support the ships correctly to get use out of them. A Tie is a great ship, but you usually need Howlrunner and some numbers to make them effective. Lose Howlrunner and your list starts falling apart. Interceptors are great, but need a solid anchor to provide flanking opportunities. They tend to be more situational and fail to be effective or go down in flames without the proper support. The Rookie X-wing, however, is generally good on its own, in large part because it has just enough hit points to stay in the fight even with a bad roll. So while you aren't guaranteed to make a great squad, the ships can all do their thing more independently and you can mix them up a lot more easily without a catastrophic failure.

Which, unfortunately is EXACTLY how the two factions should operate. Rebels have personally individual ships, built to last and able to operate out on their own, while the Imperials have mass produced, uniform ships that are typically more disposable but to me this only extends as far as the basic TIE's though i feel it may be the intention to almost force TIE's in most lists.

Yes, it seems that using TIEs in a build is almost compulsory due to the lack of 20-25 point ships. This is a problem due to the lack of variety in builds, unlike Rebel builds.

I totally agree with the OP, the Empire seems to be focused around High or Low cost ships, with the exception of the shuttle and advanced, which for me aren't great options. It can be limiting and frustrating, but I don't think it's something that's going to change, I think it's part of that faction's design.

This is one of the many reasons I'm excited about scum & villainy. Point-wise I think it will be like a mixture of rebel & imperial ships, but with a very different overall playstyle.

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING WAS MISSING IN YHE IMPERIAL ARMADA FOR MONTHS. TIE ADVANCED DHOULD BE RIGHT HERE. NO BODY LOVES ME.

Currently your best bet is a shuttle with a 3 or 2 point upgrade. Fcs is hot. Yorr is extremely hot. As bakura83 has shown us.

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING WAS MISSING IN YHE IMPERIAL ARMADA FOR MONTHS. TIE ADVANCED DHOULD BE RIGHT HERE. NO BODY LOVES ME.

Currently your best bet is a shuttle with a 3 or 2 point upgrade. Fcs is hot. Yorr is extremely hot. As bakura83 has shown us.

Well we know ffg is working on something new for the Advanced, we just have to wait and see.

A high PS TIE with a good elite talent fit's nicely into the 20+ range.

Mauler Mithel with Pred+EU clocks in at 24 points. Outfitted thusly, your opponent would be silly to ignore this guy if he was lined up as a flanker. Mauler is the only one of the "freebooting" ties that can get you in that 24-25 point range, and he's great with EU. He's an Interceptor with a super cool Pilot Ability at that point. Swap out Pred with PTL or Outmaneuver, whatever floats your boat.

I really hope to see the equivalent of Prototype Pilot for ties so we can get Backstabber in on some Outmaneuver action too.

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING WAS MISSING IN YHE IMPERIAL ARMADA FOR MONTHS. TIE ADVANCED DHOULD BE RIGHT HERE. NO BODY LOVES ME.

Currently your best bet is a shuttle with a 3 or 2 point upgrade. Fcs is hot. Yorr is extremely hot. As bakura83 has shown us.

Well we know ffg is working on something new for the Advanced, we just have to wait and see.

We do?

I think it depends what you want your 20-25 point ship to do. If you look at the X wing and think you want a solid 5 hit point ship with decent damage, that's kind of what the rebels do, not the Empire. The Empire are a little more specialist.

With Empire, you'll need to decide if your list wants more damage or resilience. If you choose damage you pick Interceptors or Elite TIE Fighters, then give them some upgrades.

The other option is TIE Bombers or the Lambda Shuttle

Yes, it seems that using TIEs in a build is almost compulsory due to the lack of 20-25 point ships. This is a problem due to the lack of variety in builds, unlike Rebel builds.

Alternatively, you could look at it as a good game design choice to have the two factions use different strategies. Outside of high-end aces rebels favor mid-range pilots with the ability to act independently, while imperials favor a larger number of cheap ships and brutal math efficiency. If you give the imperial side too many rebel-style ships then you just have one faction with different paint schemes.

We do?

There was an interview where FFG acknowledged that the TIE advanced is not a good ship right now and needs to be fixed. So there's no word at all on what the eventual answer will be or when it will happen, but we can assume that something will be done eventually.

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING WAS MISSING IN YHE IMPERIAL ARMADA FOR MONTHS. TIE ADVANCED DHOULD BE RIGHT HERE. NO BODY LOVES ME.

Currently your best bet is a shuttle with a 3 or 2 point upgrade. Fcs is hot. Yorr is extremely hot. As bakura83 has shown us.

Well we know ffg is working on something new for the Advanced, we just have to wait and see.

We do?

Watch this interview, around 15-17 minutes in Alex Davy hints that something is in the works for the Advanced.

Also as for the topic of this post, in the same interview they refer to the Empire as the faction or either, fast maneuverable elites or lots of cheap ships (I forget the exact words he used). So I doubt we'll see any change from that, at least not while these guys are the head designers.

hmm. not the answer I want to hear. I want to see some more options and midrange material.

24: shuttle with vader crew

24, 2 academy ties

25 royal guard interceptor with PTL

those 3 are the best options for the 20-25 point range for imperials

This right here is the answer. Depends on the list of course, but these are the options I would be most likely to look at.

No list is complete unless it has at least one shuttle.

The more the merrier.

My current fun-list is having three of them!

Tie Fighter: Mauler Mithel with the EPT or Mod of your choice, Howlrunner with the EPT or Mod of your choice

Tie Interceptors: Alpha with Hull, Avenger, Saber and Royal with PtL, Lorrir, Kanos, Cowell, Turr

Tie Bombers: Generics with Ordnance and/or charges, Jonus

Tie Phantom: Sigma Squadron Pilot

Lambda-Class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot + Upgrades

Tie Advanced: .... soon enough...

Looks like a good enough list for me. They might not be all top Quality, but neither is the rebel choices in that range all Top Competitive ones (except for Biggs... **** him and his godly 'stache!). The importance is to be able to find a ship that serve the purpose you want, and looking at the list above, you should be able to do so.

It's the wave 6 worries thread. I didn't examine builds and point costs but unless you're running a near naked bus or RGP interceptor or a bomber with 2 missiles/torps that 18-25 range is pretty empty. Even if that's what you're into those options are pretty locked. You can't really do much with anything except the shuttle and it's pretty hard to get value with it at that point cost (although it can be done in the right list!).

IMO, it's actually very easy to get value out of the shuttle at that cost. It's once it gets more expensive that you're going to struggle.

Let me clarify:

Many pilots feel like it's hard to get value out of a shuttle before putting enough time in to it. If you fly them often, they're great. But you're pretty much always 1 mistake away from losing that ship for 3+ turns. It's never easy, but you can get a lot of value out of it.

Props to Red Castke for mentioning the sigma squad phantom.

DO NOT underestimate the sigma. At 25 points, it's a monster that can and will one shot you. It's essentially a super Tie.

Yeah, dangling options, and just that unless you support the ships correctly to get use out of them. A Tie is a great ship, but you usually need Howlrunner and some numbers to make them effective. Lose Howlrunner and your list starts falling apart. Interceptors are great, but need a solid anchor to provide flanking opportunities. They tend to be more situational and fail to be effective or go down in flames without the proper support. The Rookie X-wing, however, is generally good on its own, in large part because it has just enough hit points to stay in the fight even with a bad roll. So while you aren't guaranteed to make a great squad, the ships can all do their thing more independently and you can mix them up a lot more easily without a catastrophic failure.

I absolutely disagree with this assesment of the Tie Fighter. I've almost never take Howlrunner and have played many games with large numbers of Tie Fighters. I disagree that Tie Fighters require anything to buff them. I also strongly disagree with the mentaility that you need to fly all your Tie Fighters in a giant formation. I think that completely takes away the strength of what the Tie Fighter does. It's a highly manueverable ship.

If you have just two Tie Fighters working together as wingmen, you have a good setup. Yes, 2 red dice is not the best situation, but you know what, the game favors red dice. I have seen plenty of times that I roll double hits or crits with my little Tie Fighter shots and the opponent flubs his green dice. Does it happen all the time? No. Does it happen enough that you don't have to buff them? Yes. The key to Tie Fighters is their ability to manuever, especially with that 1 white sharp turn. If you survive the first pass, you can just swarm people and pester them all day long. If you can get within Range 1, you are getting the extra dice.

Overall, two Tie Fighters cost about the same as an X-wing, but have more hull points than an X-wing has hull and shield. Also, it's easier to perhaps corner one ship and get a good turn on it than it is to get both. Yes, the Rebels do get a lot of 20 or so point ships with shields and all to tank, but that's what they are about. The Imperials get the large numbers of Tie Fighters, but if you think of the pairs of them as one ship, then it's about the same.

I also like having at least one or two Academy to throw in someone's way. You can really muck with someone when you try to jam up their flight path. Obsidian guys only cost a point more, as well. I think it's good to have a mix of both.

Also, I don't think the Lambda Shuttle is a specialized ship. You can deck it out and build various builds that use it, sure, but you dont' have to. It's a really cheap ship with lots of hull and shield and 3 red dice! It's pretty much exactly what you are looking for. You don't even have to gear it up to be useful, but I have found Engine Upgrades really do help it.

Props to Red Castke for mentioning the sigma squad phantom.

DO NOT underestimate the sigma. At 25 points, it's a monster that can and will one shot you. It's essentially a super Tie.

They fly very differently than named Phantom but can still be a pain for your opponent. They can be a good addition if your team is in need of a sniper/damage dealer that can get away if things go bad.

I absolutely disagree with this assesment of the Tie Fighter. I've almost never take Howlrunner and have played many games with large numbers of Tie Fighters. I disagree that Tie Fighters require anything to buff them.[ ...]

I don't recall who made this squad but it looks fun and is fully independent of Howlrunner. In fact she isn't even included.

Death Squad

here's some of my often used 25pt range stuff, in various broad categories

Combat Support

OMG Shuttle (23-26)
>>Darth Vader
>>FCS Ion
>>Tactician Tactician

Scimitar Bomber (21)
>> Fletch torps Ion Pulse Missile

Sigma Phantom (25)
>> just fly it like a normal TIE, treat it as a mobile HLC. f**k cloaking


Health / presence

2x Academy (24)

Tempest TIEadv (21)
>> HAHAHAHAHA please dont, unless it is a fun casual game or if you are flying 2 ACD phantoms

OMG Shuttle + FCS (23)

Flanker / Ace

TIE interceptors (21-26)

>> Lt Lorrir
>> Saber PTL
>> Royal PTL
>> Turr VI / Adrenaline Rush / Empty
>> Alpha + Stealth


I realize that the Imperial has more answers for lower point cost fillers (ie 15-16pt range), or around the 32pt range where you could bring in heavier stuff like Firesprays, Soontir, Deltas etc

I think I'd price an Assault gunboat around the 20-25 range...

I absolutely disagree with this assesment of the Tie Fighter. I've almost never take Howlrunner and have played many games with large numbers of Tie Fighters. I disagree that Tie Fighters require anything to buff them.[ ...]

I don't recall who made this squad but it looks fun and is fully independent of Howlrunner. In fact she isn't even included.

Death Squad

I've run a number of squads like this. They are quite fun and effective. I also like all the named Ties, except Howlrunner. My favorite usually has Darth Vader in there, too, but he can cut into the special Tie Fighters. I find once you get it all mixed up, you can avoid firing arcs well enough and get the close range dice, too.

OMG with gunner.