I'm having a fleet building issue with playing Empire. I am trying to find 20-25 point units that are good for the points to use. I like ships within that point range because they are usually at least decently strong (i.e. not mere cannon fodder) but are not so high-costed that it becomes difficult to fit much else into the build. Many Rebel ships fit the bill: X-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, Y-Wings to a lesser extent. Empire on the other hand seems to be divided into low-point cost ships (e.g. TIE Fighters) and high-point cost ships (Firesprays, TIE Defenders, TIE Phantoms - the ones worth using anyways, TIE Interceptors - the ones worth using - Turr Phennir, Soontir, Carnor Jax). Shuttles and Bombers do sort of fall within the 20-25 point range, but they are very specialized ships and are not easy to fit into more generalized builds.

So, my questions:

1. Any good Empire ships that are 20-25 points?

2. If there aren't any good Empire ships that are in that range, is it likely that there are going to be good Empire ships in that range in the future? That is, are there yet-to-be-released Empire ships that are likely to fall in that point range?

I've thought about this, too. Most of the time, I reach for my trusty Royal Guard Pilot + Push the Limit. "Fel's Wrath" isn't terrible in this meta either (bad, maybe, but not terrible). But I've started to realize that the shuttle can fit the bill here, depending on how you equip it. Captain Yorr, for example, can really help if you're facing squads that like to deal out stress. And if not, you still can keep your action on your red maneuvers. Omicron Group Pilot likes to sit at the 28 point mark (Fire-control System + Gunner; Adv. Sensors + Engine Upgrade; Heavy Laser Cannon), but you can find some decent builds that have less in the way of upgrades (Enhanced Scopes + Anti-pursuit Lasers maybe, though I haven't had much luck with that one).

As far as future ships, I think we all trust that the TIE advanced will get some love, and that may turn out to be a great 20-25 point ship.

Any of those thoughts tickle your fancy? I assume you're going up against Millennium Falcon lists, which is probably why Saber Squadron Pilots and Royal Guard Pilots didn't jump out at you.

Depends on what else you've got in the list.

A Saber Squadron Pilot (or Royal Guard Pilot) with Push the Limit, or Lieutenant Lorrir: they'll tear up anything of lower Pilot Skill, and can stack Focus and Evade for tougher fights. if you come up against the Millennium Falcon, these can hunt the escorts very well, or hang back at Range 3 for the extra defense dice.

A Gamma Squadron Pilot with:

- Ion Pulse Missiles and Cluster Missiles if you're worried about large ships (especially Falcons),

- Flechette Torpedoes and Assault Missiles if you're expecting fighters,

- Concussion Missiles and Proximity Mines as an all-arounder (or to bomb Phantoms with the new FAQ).

If you're confident in your shuttle handling (or would like to improve at it) that's also a very efficient option.

And you can never go wrong with two Academy Pilots.

Personally, though, I tend to build Imperial lists in three sections of 30-40, rather than four of 25. Thinking about it like that makes it easier to mentally arrange things, as 3 TIE Fighters ~ 2 TIE Bombers ~ 1 of anything else with upgrades.

I'm having a fleet building issue with playing Empire. I am trying to find 20-25 point units that are good for the points to use. I like ships within that point range because they are usually at least decently strong (i.e. not mere cannon fodder) but are not so high-costed that it becomes difficult to fit much else into the build. Many Rebel ships fit the bill: X-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, Y-Wings to a lesser extent. Empire on the other hand seems to be divided into low-point cost ships (e.g. TIE Fighters) and high-point cost ships (Firesprays, TIE Defenders, TIE Phantoms - the ones worth using anyways, TIE Interceptors - the ones worth using - Turr Phennir, Soontir, Carnor Jax). Shuttles and Bombers do sort of fall within the 20-25 point range, but they are very specialized ships and are not easy to fit into more generalized builds.

So, my questions:

1. Any good Empire ships that are 20-25 points?

2. If there aren't any good Empire ships that are in that range, is it likely that there are going to be good Empire ships in that range in the future? That is, are there yet-to-be-released Empire ships that are likely to fall in that point range?

I used to think this until I figured out how to play the shuttle well. I keep mine cheap -- either no upgrades or 3-4 points (tactician x2 or Vader). i usually run two expensive ships (interceptors/defenders) and grab the shuttle to fill in with its healthy amount of hit points and 3 attack dice. Fly it well, and use your other ships to dictate where the fight happens and it will be the most efficient points in your list.

I really recommend getting to know it at that point range.

Im in the same boat. Im trying to work out a decent build that lets me use Rexler Brath and Echo together. Cheesy i know but the same thing happens every time. It boils down to taking 1 spare Tie Fighter.

Even dropping down to one or the other, the most effective option would just be a swarm of something far less useful.

2 ties

shuttle

RGP...

Just posted a long post in "concerns" thread about how the imps have a lack of options.

Yes, I find myself building "Some high-cost ship + Miniswarm" most of the time when I am playing Empire. It's starting to get a bit stale.

Just posted a long post in "concerns" thread about how the imps have a lack of options.

Link please?

It's the wave 6 worries thread. I didn't examine builds and point costs but unless you're running a near naked bus or RGP interceptor or a bomber with 2 missiles/torps that 18-25 range is pretty empty. Even if that's what you're into those options are pretty locked. You can't really do much with anything except the shuttle and it's pretty hard to get value with it at that point cost (although it can be done in the right list!).

Yes. Another problem is that since Wave 6 is all Scum, Imperial players must wait until Wave 7, at the earliest, to get any more ships (unless there's an Imperial Aces II in the works, but nothing has been announced so far). The TIE Phantom and TIE Defender will be the last ships the Imperials get for a while.

At least the Rebels got Rebel Aces...That and some upgrades in the Most Wanted Pack that can also fit well in a Rebel build.

I love the nimble fast ships of the Empire, but I noticed the same thing. I don't mind Tie fighters, but I don't particularly enjoy flying swarms. I like the Tie advanced, but just find them a little under gunned for the cost. The Intercepters are my favorite, but I found the lower PS pilots not that effective with my playstyle. I loved the sabers with push the limit and a stealth device, but they cost 27 points. I couldn't run 4 of them like I wanted.

With the new releases, I've found Saber and RG pilots to be effective with the Predator ept. You get to reroll an attack dice for offence, and you can use an evade action for defence,all for a more reasonable price. Lone Wolf also works wonders for Interceptors, I just wish it wasn't unique.

Shuttle+Fleet officer soon will be worth a go especially with Rexlar

Shuttle+Fleet officer soon will be worth a go especially with Rexlar

I was tempted by this myself.

Jendon, with Experimental Interface and Fleet Officer so he can support Brath AND a Bomber at the same time. Having trouble squeezing everything in though.

Rexler - HLC

Jendon - Fleet Officer, Experimental Interface

Scimitar - Concussion Missiles, Ion Pulse Missiles

99 pts

Pretty one dimensional, hits hard, but proves the point. Theres almost no wiggle room in this list for EPT's or additional upgrades other than perhaps dropping one of the missiles for something extra.

Pretty much every Imperial list i build really wants an x wing or b wing, every rebel list i build wants a generic interceptor or named tie. I like that it differentiates the factions, but sometimes i build a list with a flanker and a hitter and outside of mini swarm i cant support the hitter as an imperial player.

Imps have great low-cost options: Backstabber, Dark Curse, Night Beast, Black Squadron w/ EPT of choice, Doomshuttle, Yorr, Saber w/ EPT, Royal w/ EPT, cheap Bomber with ordnance... Not to mention 2x Academy or Obsidian.

If you failing to find anything, look harder.

TIE Advanced fighters were supposed to be this, but in the end, ordinance turned out to perform poorer than perhaps expected. Same thing with the dial, except there other fighters always outperform it.

Hopefully that miracle fix FFG hinted at will put it back into the competitive range. It's not a bad looking model.

Is this even a serious thread? You honestly cannot pick out great Imperial ships 25 points or under? I find that hard to believe.

ALL of them, with the exception of the TIE-ADV.

A couple TIE Academy, Interceptor, Shuttle with EU. All great choices.

I really do like normal Ties, but Academies really don't do enough or last long enough now that there are so many predators in lurking in the galactic spaceways.

Imps have great low-cost options: Backstabber, Dark Curse, Night Beast, Black Squadron w/ EPT of choice, Doomshuttle, Yorr, Saber w/ EPT, Royal w/ EPT, cheap Bomber with ordnance... Not to mention 2x Academy or Obsidian.

If you failing to find anything, look harder.

Its not that there arent options, its that the Empire dangles tempting options and then limits the choices you can make around them. The most tempting units (Brath/Echo etc) really limit options when it comes to their supporting squadron, so it feels like a lack of choice, especially when compared the the rebels.

Im not saying both sides should be the same because that just makes it boring, but when you see Rebels tooling up named B-Wings, for less than a Base level Defender, and then putting another 3 supporting ships, that arent just cannon fodder, in there its frustrating.

It's the wave 6 worries thread. I didn't examine builds and point costs but unless you're running a near naked bus or RGP interceptor or a bomber with 2 missiles/torps that 18-25 range is pretty empty. Even if that's what you're into those options are pretty locked. You can't really do much with anything except the shuttle and it's pretty hard to get value with it at that point cost (although it can be done in the right list!).

IMO, it's actually very easy to get value out of the shuttle at that cost. It's once it gets more expensive that you're going to struggle.

24: shuttle with vader crew

24, 2 academy ties

25 royal guard interceptor with PTL

those 3 are the best options for the 20-25 point range for imperials

Yeah, dangling options, and just that unless you support the ships correctly to get use out of them. A Tie is a great ship, but you usually need Howlrunner and some numbers to make them effective. Lose Howlrunner and your list starts falling apart. Interceptors are great, but need a solid anchor to provide flanking opportunities. They tend to be more situational and fail to be effective or go down in flames without the proper support. The Rookie X-wing, however, is generally good on its own, in large part because it has just enough hit points to stay in the fight even with a bad roll. So while you aren't guaranteed to make a great squad, the ships can all do their thing more independently and you can mix them up a lot more easily without a catastrophic failure.

Im in the same boat. Im trying to work out a decent build that lets me use Rexler Brath and Echo together. Cheesy i know but the same thing happens every time. It boils down to taking 1 spare Tie Fighter.

Even dropping down to one or the other, the most effective option would just be a swarm of something far less useful.

Echo w/VI, ACD

Brath

OGP

7 points of upgrades. Easily a solid list (I run something similar with Fel instead of Echo) but it would be ideal with Vessery instead of Brath and get yourself two more points for something like FCS on Echo. That's a very good list.

Yeah, dangling options, and just that unless you support the ships correctly to get use out of them. A Tie is a great ship, but you usually need Howlrunner and some numbers to make them effective. Lose Howlrunner and your list starts falling apart. Interceptors are great, but need a solid anchor to provide flanking opportunities. They tend to be more situational and fail to be effective or go down in flames without the proper support. The Rookie X-wing, however, is generally good on its own, in large part because it has just enough hit points to stay in the fight even with a bad roll. So while you aren't guaranteed to make a great squad, the ships can all do their thing more independently and you can mix them up a lot more easily without a catastrophic failure.

Which, unfortunately is EXACTLY how the two factions should operate. Rebels have personally individual ships, built to last and able to operate out on their own, while the Imperials have mass produced, uniform ships that are typically more disposable but to me this only extends as far as the basic TIE's though i feel it may be the intention to almost force TIE's in most lists.

Im in the same boat. Im trying to work out a decent build that lets me use Rexler Brath and Echo together. Cheesy i know but the same thing happens every time. It boils down to taking 1 spare Tie Fighter.

Even dropping down to one or the other, the most effective option would just be a swarm of something far less useful.

Echo w/VI, ACD

Brath

OGP

7 points of upgrades. Easily a solid list (I run something similar with Fel instead of Echo) but it would be ideal with Vessery instead of Brath and get yourself two more points for something like FCS on Echo. That's a very good list.

I do kinda like that but i was put off by the naked shuttle. Its easy to forget that, besides the Agility the shuttle has some decent stats.

The obvious Temptation is a HLC on Brath but it may be better to add to the Shuttle for support. Ill have a think about that, thanks.