After all this time playing the game I just realised (what a genius) that even a freshly new created PC cannot die from a single shot from, let's say, a blaster rifle.

I just thought of the situation where a PC is fighting a Stormtrooper (let's suppose this trooper has Agility 3 and Ranged heavy 2). Well, the trooper cannot kill the PC with a single hit of his blaster rifle unless the PC was already critically wounded, no matter how lucky the trooper may be (like rolling two triumphs or so).

Combat is fast and furious in this game (soak monsters aside), but all of a sudden the game does not seem that lethal to me anymore. Just a random thought.

It's not meant to be lethal, it's meant to be more action-oriented.

It's hard to die, easy to go down in this game.

Long ago (decades) I would have had a problem with this and house ruled the system. I was all about realism. Today, fun and playability trumps.

Allowing a Stormtrooper on a great roll to one-hit-kill a PC creates a problem - A dead PC from time to time. What does that lead to? Fudging of dice rolls by the GM to save the PC. What does that lead to? PCs think they are invulnerable; the GM will always save them! What does that lead to? Boredom. What does that lead to? "Hey lets play XYZ instead this week".

By allowing PCs to easily get knocked out of the fun without dying, it creates enough insentive to not get hit (it's no fun being a spectator) without the problem of having to roll up a new character or GM fudging.

Yeah TPK is unlikely. Instead you get TPKO which leads to player prisoners and the escape.

It's notoriously difficult to actually kill PCs in this game, as the rules go out of their way to make sure they have plenty of opportunities to be rescued or else captured and escape. It can cut both ways, with recurring villains who survive to trouble the party again later, but for GMs and players used to the specter of death waiting behind every roll it can seem tame.

Of course, being lethal rather defeats the purpose of this game, which is to create a group of awesome heroes who have a bunch of wicked cool and fun adventures. The challenge here is in creating a cinematic experience in keeping with Star Wars tradition, not skating the knife's edge between life and death.

(If you're looking for this game's opposite number, where even a kind and forgiving GM will usually end the game with a TPK, see Call of Cthulhu.)

Somehow the main characters in Star Wars movies very seldom get killed by one shot from a blaster either.

Perhaps there's a connection?

Sure, its not very lethal. But its not difficult to knock a PC out.

I think it strikes a good balance. because frankly 100% realism wouldn't be much fun. Otherwise 90% of PCs would die trying to escape Mos Shutta

This is all about having fun in the Star Wars universe. So making PCs mostly immune to death makes a little more sense. And everyone getting knocked out, sold into slavery/tossed into prison, and losing all their swag seems just as punishing as actual death. Except you don't have to bother making new characters which would be a royal pain.

Only a couple of group's PCs have been knocked out ever. And we're pretty motivated to keep that number down.

And if you really MUST add lethality to the game, have opponents with a few ranks of Vicious on their weapons and start laying on the crits. Vibro-axes in particular can easily get to having +40 to +50 on the crit chart, and that makes death a possibility. Especially once you are hitting a target thats already been crit'd.

Of course, being lethal rather defeats the purpose of this game, which is to create a group of awesome heroes who have a bunch of wicked cool and fun adventures. The challenge here is in creating a cinematic experience in keeping with Star Wars tradition, not skating the knife's edge between life and death.

Actually, I find your comment very interesting to me. My taste for rpgs has moved from rpgs where there is a strong component / goal of rising a PC to the uber-hero level, like in D&D and in this game may be? to rpgs where all that matters is the story being told (your character also develops of course, but changes are not so drastic).

Yes, yes, I know. I come from a long tradition of lethal games Rune Quest, Cthulhu, Ars Magica, Cyberpunk...

Actually, I am ok with the combat philosophy in this game, it is similar to Warhammer 1st and 2nd editions, or The One Ring (my favourite rpg probably).

It was just a realisation I had, I have a long tradition of killing PCs, as well as my own characters dying in the games and I miss it a bit in this game. May be that is why I have moved away from the kind of rpgs where rising your PC to demi-god state is a strong component of the game.

We had the groups Trando Marauder/Force Muppet go down a few games ago with 5 x Level 3 crits... but didn't die!

Sure, he's blind, both knees broken and several other things don't work, but very hard to actually wipe a PC out despite a fairly concerted effort. It seems to some extent the more hit points and soak you have, the more crits you end up wearing before running out of the old life/strain bar.

More 'normal' people just get blown up, fall down and have a crit, but will otherwise be mostly ok with a decent enough soak in some bacta for a day.

I guess you can have the bad guys just wander up and drop a round in their skull, but its not very heroic...

Of course, being lethal rather defeats the purpose of this game, which is to create a group of awesome heroes who have a bunch of wicked cool and fun adventures. The challenge here is in creating a cinematic experience in keeping with Star Wars tradition, not skating the knife's edge between life and death.

Actually, I find your comment very interesting to me. My taste for rpgs has moved from rpgs where there is a strong component / goal of rising a PC to the uber-hero level, like in D&D and in this game may be? to rpgs where all that matters is the story being told (your character also develops of course, but changes are not so drastic).

Cinematic in this case doesn't necessarily mean raising them to god levels. In my experience, PCs in this game start out shakily competent, quickly move to solidly competent (so long as they know what area they want to focus on), and stay there for a long time before even approaching Epic. Before we knew about Signature Abilities, in fact, I would have said this game doesn't have the possibility for Epic.

The fact that it's hard to kill PCs in this game is actually fairly liberating with regard to telling character stories, since your players don't have to worry about their characters' dying and losing what progress they made in their own narrative. Conversely, your job as GM is made easier by the simple fact that, instead of killing them, you can cripple them, capture them, have them be rescued and left in someone's debt. These are all setbacks and obstacles that need to be overcome in the story without the disappointment of losing your favorite character.

And if you're still worried about them gaining levels too fast, there are two options supported by RAW: 1.) scale everything to match by using minion groups and the Nemesis system, or 2.) give them less XP per session, maybe 5 or 10. Do both, even, but I recommend letting the players feel like they've grown; otherwise, they may become dissatisfied.

It can be very lethal, don't be fooled. The right weapon, skills, etc... and you'll easily one shot someone. I did it once, without realizing what I had built because we were all new to the game still, GM included. I could have one shotted another player, Wookie, using nothing more than a vibroknife but killing him wasn't really what I was trying to do so I pulled the hit.

(If you're looking for this game's opposite number, where even a kind and forgiving GM will usually end the game with a TPK, see Call of Cthulhu.)

Try Cyberpunk 2020, where my entire party didn't get out of the nightclub in the first "So you meet at a bar" starting game. 3 hours of rolling up, 10 minutes of gameplay, the rest of the night arguing if a helmet would have done squat against a .357

3 hours of rolling up, 10 minutes of gameplay, the rest of the night arguing if a helmet would have done squat against a .357

Having a moment you can hold against your players for the rest of their lives: priceless.

3 hours of rolling up, 10 minutes of gameplay, the rest of the night arguing if a helmet would have done squat against a .357

In Steve Jackson game's "Car wars" a person cannot commit suicide with a heavy pistol, unless they use two bullets and a helmet.

Explanation:

My characters are so afraid of being knocked out they run away from everything. I had them face two Cybernexu and had to remove the enhancements or I would have killed them all off in three rounds.

I like the current system. To me PC death should be incredibly rare. And my group's GMs fortunately agree with me often house ruling more lethal rules systems to reduce the odds of PC death In the past 4 years my group had very few PCs killed and almost all of those were deliberately killed by their Players so they could make new ones, or because they wished to retire a character in one of our campaigns where we had parties in multiple factions.

In my case we were doing a muilti-faction campaign with players having PCs in each faction but ear the end the factions basically merged and I had two character who had started in different factions but filled similar roles in their faction One was an admiral/head of his faction's main ship and fighter R&D/sector governor. The other was benevolent military dictator of a small alliance of systems, including his homeworld which was one of the three largest shipbuilding centers in the setting and head of his homeworld's ship and fighter R&D wing, though he didn't get to spend as much time there as he wished, plus commanding Admiral of his government's first fleet. (For most military dictators that would be an honorary title but he preferred to lead from the front. Of the onscreen major battles his forces participated in there was only one he didn't take part in either being play or off screen. The only reason he didn't take part in the exception was because it took place a few days after he seized power and he was still getting his government structure in place and support firmed up while he sent part of his fleet to aid an allied government outside his territory.)

Anyway I had the first character throw himself on a bomb a traitor smuggled into a high level diplomatic meeting because I felt that was a perfect end for the character and that was that. The last time I had a character die that I didn't want to go was years ago. He got KOed by a fall while rappelling down the side a building after serving as rear guard while the party and some civilians fled a zombie attack then was loaded in the car the party fled in only to be left behind, still out cold, when the party had to abandon the car in the face of an incoming giant super zombie.

It can be very lethal, don't be fooled. The right weapon, skills, etc... and you'll easily one shot someone. I did it once, without realizing what I had built because we were all new to the game still, GM included. I could have one shotted another player, Wookie, using nothing more than a vibroknife but killing him wasn't really what I was trying to do so I pulled the hit.

Can you give specifics? I'm struggling to think how you accidentally built something that could one-shot a fellow PC. Especially if you were new to the game and presumably had starting level characters or close to.

It can be very lethal, don't be fooled. The right weapon, skills, etc... and you'll easily one shot someone. I did it once, without realizing what I had built because we were all new to the game still, GM included. I could have one shotted another player, Wookie, using nothing more than a vibroknife but killing him wasn't really what I was trying to do so I pulled the hit.

Can you give specifics? I'm struggling to think how you accidentally built something that could one-shot a fellow PC. Especially if you were new to the game and presumably had starting level characters or close to.

I don't want to speak for Syralus, but the same sort of thing happened in our game. If you don't spend much time looking at the crit chart you loose sight as to just how easy it is to kill someone when you roll well and have a couple talents.

For example, a Disrupter rifle is vicious 5. A crit roll of 91-100 would be The End is Nigh, which will kill the character. 81-90 on the roll and you get Bleeding Out, which is only 1 failed daunting medical check away from killing a character. Granted, a Disrupter rifle isn't exactly starting equipment, but I could see a GM letting the group find one fairly quickly.

Actually, the Bleeding Out is how one of my characters was almost killed in his second game. I forget what I got hit by, I think it was a vibro weapon, I don't know if the NPC had any Lethal Blows, but I do know the GM rolled well and spent all of the advantages on buying up the crit. He thought it was interesting to have a more dangerous crit than the low end "winded" type crits our group only seems to get. He rolled really well on the dice and I got Bleeding Out. A +40 is all you need to get Bleeding Out on a 91-100 crit roll. Vicious 1 + Leathal Blows 1 + existing crit 1 + rolling four advantages with a crit 2 vibro weapon is all it takes, which is very achievable for a starting character.

Take a vibroknife an add the attachment to reduce the crit by 1. You now crit on only one advantage. The knife with just that one attachment gets Dead on a roll of 91 and 6 advantages. (Just 5 advantages for The End is Nigh.) Granted, that's a hard roll, but for each rank of Lethal Blows you add and each point of vicious you add through attachments and mods (especially if you can add both the serrated and mono edge attachments) and each additional crit already on the target is one less advantage you need or 10 less you need to roll on the crit chart.

If we're talking a vibro-ax instead of a vibroknife, just the first attachment needs a roll of 91+ and only 4 advantages for the Dead result. It just gets easier from there. If you don't pay attention to the crit chart and how deadly your talents and attachments are when working together, it's pretty easy to "accidentily" have the ability to one shot.

Upgraded Vibro-axe+nemesis with lethal blows+trigger a crit with one advantage = +40 to +50 on the chart.

Combat in this game is dangerous, but it's not lethal.

As has been noted, actually killing a PC in this game is rather difficult, since you need to inflict a critical injury and get a result of over 150 to do the deed; a result of 141 to 150 means the target will die in the next couple minutes, which may be close enough for most folks.

Being pushed past your Wound Threshold in this game simply means that your PC falls unconscious until somebody performs first aid or jams a stimpack into them, reducing their current wound total to no longer be over that Wound Threshold, with the only lasting consequence being that critical injury you suffered for being pushed past your Wound Threshold in the first place.

3 hours of rolling up, 10 minutes of gameplay, the rest of the night arguing if a helmet would have done squat against a .357

Go call them and tell them yes, a helmet, WOULD have done more then "squat" against a .357.

Considering a typical level IIIa helmet has a V50 of around 1800fps vs. .357, the most common types of .357 ammo would not typically penetrate. Most .357 ammo is well less then 1800fps, only the extreme stuff gets to that velocity or more. "V50" means the velocity needed for the ammo type to penetrate "50% of the time". So, the typical round would penetrate somewhere quite less then 50% of the time.

See, I USED to like realism in my games. I now prefer fun due to these kind of mundane headaches and arguments. But, the more and more I know about these things due to career choices, the harder it becomes to suspend my disbelief and ignore the realism. Thus, I tend to avoid modern era games since I (and none of my players) know the V50 of an E-11 versus laminate armor.

Thus, I tend to avoid modern era games since I (and none of my players) know the V50 of an E-11 versus laminate armor.

I believe that's 1.6 gajillion footcandles?

More seriously, I just love how this game takes place almost entirely in the imagination of the players. I almost never have to even decide what Threat or Despair does in combat, because my players are so willing to have horrible things happen to their characters because it would be cool.

As I side note, I have to say I think the death of PCs is a I got experience for all players.

When I was younger I used to get very attached to my PCs, taking the character sheet home etc, and I wanted him /her to get very good and proficient. At some point I got 'used' to my PCs dying sooner or later (I mean the ones I incarnate, I cannot speak for the ones of my player's ) due to the nature of the games we used to play (RQ, CoC, etc.).

And now, well, I am not that attach anymore to my PCs. My PC is my tool to participate in the story and develop it, if it dies... no problem my imagination will generate soon a new one equally engaging for me.

And now, well, I am not that attach anymore to my PCs. My PC is my tool to participate in the story and develop it, if it dies... no problem my imagination will generate soon a new one equally engaging for me.

Cool, dramatic death adds to the story sure. But mechanics that can commonly at any moment toss a PC death your way is not cool, dramatic, or adding to the story.

Dramatic/Cool: (GM) As you run towards your horses, Sir Ben sees that you will get away and strangely stops fighting, lowers his sword, and gets cut down by the black clad evil knight.

Not Dramatic/Cool: (GM) You continue your flight and climb onto your horses as the white clad evil soldiers lob crossbow bolts your way..."Oh **** look what I just rolled - Sorry Mike your cool farmer (who wants to grow up to be a great knight due to his unusually high Strength and Constitution scores) isn't going to accomplish his aspirations." Ut oh, he was supposed to be the Chosen One and help slay the demigod warlock at the end of the campaign too. They already saw my roll. How can I fudge this?!

Cool, dramatic death adds to the story sure. But mechanics that can commonly at any moment toss a PC death your way is not cool, dramatic, or adding to the story.

Oh! Totally agree! but on the other hand, I also like all combats to be dramatic and relevant. I always warn my PCs not to get into a combat if they are not ready to die. There is always another way.

But yes, for the rest I agree with you.

As I side note, I have to say I think the death of PCs is a I got experience for all players.

When I was younger I used to get very attached to my PCs, taking the character sheet home etc, and I wanted him /her to get very good and proficient. At some point I got 'used' to my PCs dying sooner or later (I mean the ones I incarnate, I cannot speak for the ones of my player's ) due to the nature of the games we used to play (RQ, CoC, etc.).

And now, well, I am not that attach anymore to my PCs. My PC is my tool to participate in the story and develop it, if it dies... no problem my imagination will generate soon a new one equally engaging for me.

I too am on this page. These days I'm just not attached to my characters. Tough breaks and death are a great excuse to roll up my next cool character. As they say, every great character has a great ending. The death of a character, doesn't matter if it was cool or just a fumbled dice roll, will stick with the payers and will give them a story to talk about.

The only time I'm attached to my character is if I haven't seen what they can do yet. In my example above, I had a character almost killed by Bleeding Out on the second session I played that character. I would've been a little put out having that character die because I wanted to see what a sniper character could do in this game. That and being killed in the second session is rather lame. If I had played that character a bit longer, and seen the potential of the character build I was working towards, then I wouldn't care at all. Bring on the next awesome new character.

Like said in other places in this thread, this game is dangerous but not deadly. A character can only die from a crit. A GM can spend advantages and triumphs on things other than crits. If a GM doesn't want characters to accidentily die, then never choose the crit option when there will be +51 on the crit roll. If a GM never chooses the crit, the only crits the players will suffer will be when they go unconsious. Makes the game rather safe.