I think most possible and balanced wave two ships are: Carrack cruiser and Dreadnought heavy cruiser for Imperials, and Assault Frigate mark I and Marauder corvette for Rebels.

I'd honestly be extremely happy with that as Wave 2.

The Rebels won't feel robust until they have a couple Mon Cals -- as in two different shapes to reflect their unique designs and the idiosyncratic Rebel identity as opposed to the monolithic Imperials -- to field. Even though I also want an Imperial class SD, the Vic is close enough in aesthetic that the Imperials already have a real-feel presence to me. Once white triangles and Mon Cal cruisers are going at it, then I'll feel like the Imperials and Rebels have finally met.

I seriously doubt FF is going to release different models for Mark I vs Mark II or a vs b for the various ships. The MC80a and MC80b are almost identical, there are differences, but not enough to justify a whole new model. If they tried people would start shouting money grab, and they would be kind of right. I want new and different ships released, not rehashed versions of ships I already have. The ISD and MC80 (no letter required, as the pack will no doubt include ship cards for both the a and b versions) will probably be in Wave 2 as they are iconic. After that I expect some smaller ships, anti-squadron specialized ships, some carrier type ships. Then probably some glass cannons, and more fighter sets (Defenders & Phantoms, E-Wings and Z-Wings) and some single model 'fighters' like the Millennium Falcon and Decimators (Slave I should be unlikely as Boba Fett didn't participate in any fleet battles, he was a bounty hunter after all, not a mercenary).

VSD, GSD and ISD than the money grab too, all looks like triangles in space to some.

MC80

MC80a

MC80b

The problem is each of those bring the exact same role to the table. They are all meant to go toe to toe with ISDs. The differentes between them are minor. The differences between a VSD and an ISD are also minor. To be honest I would have been fine had they only released an ISD, but ISDs are too big for Wave 1 (especially the rebel ships in Wave 1), so the VSD is the next best thing. The Assault Frigate fulfills the VSD role (medium warship) for the Rebels, and the MC80(a probably, because it looks the best imo) fulfills the ISD (heavy warship) role, or will anyway. The MC80 itself is actually a bit more distinct, as it uses proton torpedoes as a primary armament rather than turbo lasers, but the 'a' and 'b' are pretty similar.

So I could see them making an MC80 in Wave 3 or 4, with the MC80a in Wave 2, and an MC80b card in the MC80a pack.

If we get too into the Mark II is actually a bit different then a Mark I, then they would need 2 (or 3) VSD models, and half-a-dozen ISD models, 4 or 5 MC80 models, and that is more models than X-Wing had in the first 3 years, for just 3 types of ships.

My personal preference would be to make more distinct models and ships before going down the slight variation lane.

For me the Mon Cals need at least two different shapes for a few reasons:

-The Rebel Fleet identity is a mixed bag, having identical ships is the Imperial aesthetic.

-Having different Rebel ships will help each engagement feel different. Again, Imperials are streamlined but the Rebels are not. This game will have fewer ships than X-wing so making the most use of the ones we have is important. Otherwise it may begin to feel repetitive.

-The Independence and Home One shapes are different enough from the Mon Remonda I think to justify different shapes.

-As for their roles, I wouldn't mind FFG tweaking their stats, upgrade slots, and shield/dice values to make them different.

-I think there are enough different shapes to be worthwhile:

Home One

Winged Mon Cal Cruiser, Liberty

Mon Remonda

Lulsla

If we get too into the Mark II is actually a bit different then a Mark I, then they would need 2 (or 3) VSD models, and half-a-dozen ISD models, 4 or 5 MC80 models, and that is more models than X-Wing had in the first 3 years, for just 3 types of ships.

Actually AF mark II and AF mark I is two different ships at all. Mark II is designed at the base of Dreadnought class cruiser, mark I actually is heavily modified Dreadnought class cruiser.

mark I

There are only 3 MC80 models that are different in shape . There is one MC90 that can be included in the game due to it size and firepower. And these are actually only 4 rebel capital ships of size 1000m and more that could fit standard game.

Main thing that in the game, even four similar ships can be really different.

and an MC80b card in the MC80a pack.

The worst idea. Even business wise.

Well if they decide to include the ship models introduced in Rebellion, and one of the frigate classes from it is now canon, there are a couple of EU rebel cruiser classes that are probably 1000 meters or longer. Or they might include New Republic ships, or retrocon the Republic class Star Destroyer to be in service with the alliance rather then being an early New Republic class.

I kind of hope they do give the rebels some non-Mon Cal heavy warships. I don't dislike the Mon Cal ships but I would like more variaty and I always found it odd that the Alliance is supposed to be big on equality between species but their main heavy warship requires a bridge crew, and possibly engineering crew from a specific species to get anything near top performance.

They're big on equality of persons, not tech. If Mon Cals make better ships then they're going to get the ship contract. Plus the Mon Cals initally were converting passenger liners into combat craft in a rush to get ships into combat.

Later there were other heavies, the Viscount, a Mon Cal Star Defender and the Bothan's created Assault Cruisers. I remember reading about the latter and thinking they sounded neat. Somebody (Gavin?) notes that they have dual hanger bays on either side allowing for fighters to be recovered and launched faster. But I don't know if FFG is setting a timeline?

Well the Essential Guide to Warfare states that Bothawui was a major cruiser (Sil 7 and probably sil 6, maybe some sil 5s as well) production just before Endor but the EU has no details for any Bothan Warships from this era so there is always the hope that FFG will create some. I would still love to see the Liberator and Dauntless class cruisers in the FFG Material and maybe the Bulwark IIIs someday. And I still wonder why the Mon Calamari decided to design a whole new series of warships to use standardized controls and not modify their existing designs which were in construction to use standard controls.

I want to see all the ships that you see in the TIE fighter PC game eventually.

Oh and if FFG can swing it I'd love to see an alternate line of Battlestar Galactica ships. Not as big as Star Wars mind you, just a battlestar, basestar, some fighters, and a few token civilian ships.

Heck, YES! All the ships from the TIE Fighter PC game, definitely!

If not all, then please consider:

Neb-B2

CR92

Assault Gunboats

Assault Transports

Escort Shuttles were a bit on the ugly side though...

Not going to include Interdictor up there because we all KNOW they'll release it! J/K! But this one definitely needs to be released.

I'd love for them to release those three-platform style, well, platforms. They could be immobile, have stats, and be scenario/objective perfection!

You could do different class stations, title cards, factions (sleek and white for Imps, ragtag and old for Rebels), and come up with docking/overlap benefits. Maybe one or two upgrade slots, hell give it its own single command value and a squadron value of 2. Ugh, now I'm all riled up.

Hah. R22 n' MaverickNZ. I think I'm liking the way you guys think a bit too much.

Problem is, if this all happens, my poor wallet's not going to like it at all.

Ugh no more computer game ships (except for the missile boat, I like that one)

This is whats slowly killing X-Wing IMHO the loud and proud what to turn X-Wing into the 90's PC games. They where fun but sheesh can I have a Star Wars game that dives a little deeper into the lore besides what computer games created?

Dude. I'm all for going into the lore. I certainly don't want to limit Armada to the XvT game or even turn it into a recreation, but there's a ton of material there that I think would be massively enjoyable and appropriate for this game.

Dude. I'm all for going into the lore. I certainly don't want to limit Armada to the XvT game or even turn it into a recreation, but there's a ton of material there that I think would be massively enjoyable and appropriate for this game.

And I applaud you for wanting to bring in the good stuff from the games. I just feel like the 90 games material is a horse we've beaten to death, blown up, force lighting it tell it was chard black. Cloned it and started it all over again

I just want to see big ships! They can dance around all the cannon/eu all they want so long as its well done.

Saw someone recommend Battlestar... I think thats more of an X-Wing game. Armada system needs to be licenced for Star Blazers! Thats just screaming for a tabletop revival. So may big ships, so many factions, so many battles. I mean heck, last i knew, Disney had licensed that IP to do a live action remake of Battleship Yamoto. FFG has to already be in bed to license Star Wars stuff. Should be a no brainer!

Dude. I'm all for going into the lore. I certainly don't want to limit Armada to the XvT game or even turn it into a recreation, but there's a ton of material there that I think would be massively enjoyable and appropriate for this game.

And I applaud you for wanting to bring in the good stuff from the games. I just feel like the 90 games material is a horse we've beaten to death, blown up, force lighting it tell it was chard black. Cloned it and started it all over again

Ahh, Brigoon, you're raining on our party!

I'm in agreement with R22 up there. There's stacks of material in the classic Lucas Arts games that FFG can draw from.

You know what...going into specifics, I haven't seen the Assault Gunboat 'anywhere' outside of said Lucas Arts games. They never released it as a Lego set, never included it in any of the Star Wars Novels (not in the ones I've read at least. )

I've always been enamoured by the GUNs. Flying them, flying with them, or them hauling my butt out of a rebel ambush in TIE Fighter. ^Salutes Rho and Nu Squadrons^ Always liked them over the TIE Defender (which is a bit OP in my opinion).

Dude. I'm all for going into the lore. I certainly don't want to limit Armada to the XvT game or even turn it into a recreation, but there's a ton of material there that I think would be massively enjoyable and appropriate for this game.

And I applaud you for wanting to bring in the good stuff from the games. I just feel like the 90 games material is a horse we've beaten to death, blown up, force lighting it tell it was chard black. Cloned it and started it all over again

Ahh, Brigoon, you're raining on our party!

I'm in agreement with R22 up there. There's stacks of material in the classic Lucas Arts games that FFG can draw from.

You know what...going into specifics, I haven't seen the Assault Gunboat 'anywhere' outside of said Lucas Arts games. They never released it as a Lego set, never included it in any of the Star Wars Novels (not in the ones I've read at least. )

I've always been enamoured by the GUNs. Flying them, flying with them, or them hauling my butt out of a rebel ambush in TIE Fighter. ^Salutes Rho and Nu Squadrons^ Always liked them over the TIE Defender (which is a bit OP in my opinion).

Sorry AlphaXg1, I'm a jerk always have been always will be.

My anger over the 90 games stuff comes more from the 40 thousand threads in the X-Wing forum witch pretty much boil downs to the "this game sux's because it doesn't have awesome toy #4 from the computer games!" "I demand FFG put in a game breaking mechanic so I can have a auto win button from like when I played the computer games" and things of that caliber. Then these very same players shoot down anyone else who has a idea that doesn't involve the computer games. I don't mind the computer games but when people want to use that material as if it is the only material that matters and the rest of us can go get bent if we don't like it. It kinda ruffles my feathers and makes me a bit of a grump

I'm kinda tired of that type of crowd so yeah I'm being a little defensive here sorry I wear my feelings on my sleeve and I tell it how I see it. Now I am not saying any of you are part of that crowd but my argument still stands

I think the particular drawcard, or strength that the old games has, is that it introduced several comepletely new types of ships, both fighters and capitals, that were not in the original films, but for the most part were well designed and created to fit with the existing canon. Where this has an advantage over the EU books and such is because in the games the model was physically created, as opposed to imagined in the readers mind, which can create vastly different expectations and imagined attributes.

Also the ships created for the games had to be somewhat (and I do use that very loosely) "balanced" not in terms of gameplay, but just even more in terms of fitting in with Star Wars physics. This is quite different when compared to some of the other EU book material where a ship that is central to the book storyline can be the "kick ass, has everything and can beat everything" uber ship, because it has to be - otherwise it would be a terribly boring book. At least according to some peoples opinions.

There was someone previously who mentioned a corvette that had a hanger for 9 freekin X-Wings scrapped together, (when originally designed for 4 TIE fighters) and a capital ship grade tractor beam amongst other things - Same with the Vong, (not trying to get that debated started again), but purely written to make a plot work without any thought towards the engineering or even physical space possibilities of being workable.

That said, Im not a die hard games fan who thinks that everything should be based on the games, sure they had some crap ideas too that we shouldnt revisit, and there was some good things in the EU books, but lets just take each one on its own merits if we can?

Ugh no more computer game ships (except for the missile boat, I like that one)

This is whats slowly killing X-Wing IMHO the loud and proud what to turn X-Wing into the 90's PC games. They where fun but sheesh can I have a Star Wars game that dives a little deeper into the lore besides what computer games created?

From indications it seems like they're riding the Star Wars Galaxies train with the Scyk and the Decimator- with no hide nor hair of the Assault Gunboat or TIE Avenger (Two VERY HOT items for the Empire wishlist). The only entry from TIE Fighter we have is the TIE Defender which, if you're paying attention, is the only vessel from the sims to see attention outside of it besides the BFF-1 and the SCT! All that needs to happen is for them to release something stupid like the TIE Oppressor, and then you can't make the favoritism argument with the sims.

We've loved these fighters, the game, and its contributions ever since we got a chance to play it. And virtually nothing it gave us has propagated into the Expanded Universe. I'm sorry our enthusiasm has ruffled your feathers

At any rate there are still other ships they can depict before falling on the B2 (again, one of the ships introduced but never seen elsewhere from TF). Dreadnoughts, Carracks, Strike Cruisers, Lancers... there's a list. It depends on where FFG wants to go and what pieces to add to the game. Immobilizer 418s for Hyperspace interdiction, Lancers for easy strike craft removal, or something middle-of-the-road like the Carrack?

I actually like the Oppressor but would love to see all of the fighters from the X-Wing/TIE Fighter PC games in X-Wing and all of the capital ships in Armada.

Ugh no more computer game ships (except for the missile boat, I like that one)

This is whats slowly killing X-Wing IMHO the loud and proud what to turn X-Wing into the 90's PC games. They where fun but sheesh can I have a Star Wars game that dives a little deeper into the lore besides what computer games created?

From indications it seems like they're riding the Star Wars Galaxies train with the Scyk and the Decimator- with no hide nor hair of the Assault Gunboat or TIE Avenger (Two VERY HOT items for the Empire wishlist). The only entry from TIE Fighter we have is the TIE Defender which, if you're paying attention, is the only vessel from the sims to see attention outside of it besides the BFF-1 and the SCT! All that needs to happen is for them to release something stupid like the TIE Oppressor, and then you can't make the favoritism argument with the sims.

We've loved these fighters, the game, and its contributions ever since we got a chance to play it. And virtually nothing it gave us has propagated into the Expanded Universe. I'm sorry our enthusiasm has ruffled your feathers

At any rate there are still other ships they can depict before falling on the B2 (again, one of the ships introduced but never seen elsewhere from TF). Dreadnoughts, Carracks, Strike Cruisers, Lancers... there's a list. It depends on where FFG wants to go and what pieces to add to the game. Immobilizer 418s for Hyperspace interdiction, Lancers for easy strike craft removal, or something middle-of-the-road like the Carrack?

Well every time I see someone bring up the Avenger they get shot down. So it's not if people are not trying their just getting shot down by funny enough their fellow gamers. Your enthusiasm is great but when it drowns out everything else it becomes a more "get off my lawn! you youngsters with your Rock'n Roll music" thing

I would love to see the missile boat in X-Wing ahh that sucker could end the rein of the Fat Han very fast if it could have all of it's ordnance. Just like I would to see the Dreadnought in Armada, the Carrack I'm gonna have to look up I don't remember that one.

Not to start once more flogging a horse that isnt just dead, but decomposed.....the problem with the Avenger in X-Wing is a matter of "design space". It's important not to release things just for the sake of it to many companies, and the Avenger is just too close to several ships already (it's a shielded interceptor basically). It's a very tricky ship to introduce without obsoleting Interceptors, Advanced or Defenders (or possibly more than 1 of them).

But back on Armada, there's a lot more granularity in how they've done the stats, meaning more design space to play with.

Personally i'm not interested in the B2....i thought it looked lame compared to the original, and I really hope we get a Carrack instead. That ships is awesome, is well known in the EU, and is about the right size category.

I bet on

- ISD

- Imperial raider corvette

- MC 80 Home One type

- Quasar fire-class bulk cruiser