Two games today, one imperial and one rebel and two utter massacres on my part against my opponent.

Both with interceptor type lists.

First game i flew 4 a wings, Tycho, Jake and two green squadrons. All with chardan refits, all with test pilot. Tycho had predator, jake had outmanouvre, the two greens had VI and all had PTL.

I flew against Whisper with a stack of upgrades, tetran and tur phenirr. Went after the two interceptors quickly (lost tycho on the way but smashed them both) then boxed in the phantom with well spread out arcs.

Second game i ran my 'heavy interceptor' list of two royal guards and tur phennir.

All had SU and HU, the two royal guards had PTL, Turr had predator (which i forgot about all game).

Played against a five ship rebel build of two rookie Xs, two bandits and the mouldy crow.

Smashed the mouldy crow quickly then again, staying out of arc and spreading arcs ripped each rebel apart one by one.

The point of this is that i think i've just cracked the secret of decent manouvre, i used to rely on high hit points (and i guess to a degree the heavy int list is high hit point) but opening moves in my imperial game were just perfect, formation flying flank meaning two turns of smashing into the rear and the side of the rebs with concentrated fire and only the crow getting a shot back.

Just pleased to have lost one ship (out of seven quite fragile ones) in the last two games.

Interceptors for the win...

and there was me all set on B wings for a while!

Why would you fly anything else? Because turrets exist.

Yeah face a falcon or y-wing heavy list and watch them evaporate, in a straight dog fight they win but when they can't arc dodge effectively they go splody.

You know in the dozens of games i've played since buying the game, i've come up against a falcon about twice. Not particularly stressed by it either time. Likewise, every time i've played against a phantom its gone down in flames.

Now either:

1. Im really good (not that likely)

2. every one ive ever played is really bad (again pushing the odds a bit)

or

3. Its a pretty well balanced game.

I suffered a bit from a HWK with a turret in the last game so in this one it was target number one.

I dont know if it makes *much* difference but we also dont play 'imp vs imp' or 'reb vs' reb' games in our groups. Only reb vs imp. Generally playing two games and having a go each of an evening.

Get enough hits in it fast enough and *anything* is going down, turretted or not

2. every one ive ever played is really bad (again pushing the odds a bit)

Probably this, given your previous posts about playing "for fun" (as if competitive players don't have fun), complaining that Biggs is "unfair", etc. My guess is you have a group of players that don't put much effort into list optimization or learning how to fly their ships effectively, and in that kind of situation even a mediocre player with a mediocre list can dominate. But it's a "big fish in a small pond" issue, experience with high-level competitive play demonstrates pretty clearly that your claims about balance are not correct.

Turrets don't scare me either. A well flown Interceptor list should have no troubles tearing through most turret lists. If you're bringing turrets to the table, chances are that you are spending a lot of points on each ship. Y-Wings are tanky, and so are Falcons. But Y's suffer from crappy maneuvers and Falcons suffer from almost non - existent agility. They both only have one attack as well. And with a minimum of 3 agility to defend, I'm not too worried about them shooting me.

They both only have one attack as well.

Gunner.

They both only have one attack as well.

Gunner.

Turrets don't scare me either. A well flown Interceptor list should have no troubles tearing through most turret lists. If you're bringing turrets to the table, chances are that you are spending a lot of points on each ship. Y-Wings are tanky, and so are Falcons. But Y's suffer from crappy maneuvers and Falcons suffer from almost non - existent agility. They both only have one attack as well. And with a minimum of 3 agility to defend, I'm not too worried about them shooting me.

Exactly this. A cheap falcon is what almost half your squad in one basket?

Dont confuse

1. playing for fun rather than 'win at all costs' and

2. Not liking game mechanics that remove choice from your opponent with

not putting in effort.

I put up the heavy interceptor list weeks ago and there was a fair conscensus it was a strong list and some tweaks were made.

I've got a fairly large group of people i play against.

I'd probably wager that playing about two games a week on average i probably play more than a lot of people on here who seem to spend a *lot* of time arguing about how broken the list A or B is and little time telling us about games they have played and enjoyed.

I know a *little* about game design and balance. Like i say i used to write the campaign weekend rules and open day special event games for GW for a fair few years, they were always very well received and sold out events.

To give you an idea about what i mean by 'playing for fun'

By the time Sam and i were at the end game of the second game of the evening it was midnight. His phantom was close to the marked off matt edge of 3' by 3'.

I reminded him that if he *didnt* cloak this turn (so as to make a 2 move sideways) his next move woul take him off board. I could have said nothing and let him push a 40 point or whatever ship undamaged off the board because he was tired but where is the fun or glory in beating someone that way?

Likewise in another game last week my opponent mis set his dial and was about to fly a ship (undamaged) right off the board, i said, that would be crazy, fly it the way you meant to fly it.

I'd rather win by good tactics on my part not becaue my pal was tired or made a silly mistake.

See the thing is interceptors only appear in singles for a reason in the competitive scene, and they tend to live because they are less of a threat than the phantom they are working with.

Han with gunner will shoot before most interceptors and will strip your defensive tokens and leave you an awkward choice let one damage through to deny him the gunner roll or hope you get lucky, neither is optimal and leaves you with no boost to your attack, then the three escorts open up on you chances are you'll lose one ship a turn.

Nine hit points isn't alot and interceptors counter that with their dial, turrets negate that advantage meaning pure lists crumble hard and fast I've been on the receiving end and it's never pretty.

Hopefully the wave six upgrade will make them less fragile against turrets.

A cheap falcon is what almost half your squad in one basket?

But it's a very powerful basket that consistently hits you with gunner/Luke, has as much HP as two (or more) small ships with C-3P0 and/or the title card to protect it, and has a 360* range 1-3 turret that allows it to concentrate on flying defensively and ignore your attempts to dodge arcs. There's a reason why Falcon lists have always been good, even before ACD phantoms made them even more popular.

I put up the heavy interceptor list weeks ago and there was a fair conscensus it was a strong list and some tweaks were made.

Yes, it's a strong list in an environment where certain lists/strategies are labeled "win at all costs" and not allowed. Play against good players with "everything is allowed" lists built to be as powerful as possible and you'll find that your results match what everyone else says: interceptors struggle against turrets.

I'd probably wager that playing about two games a week on average i probably play more than a lot of people on here who seem to spend a *lot* of time arguing about how broken the list A or B is and little time telling us about games they have played and enjoyed.

That's nice, but your experience isn't all that impressive if you're playing in a "casual at all costs" environment where you aren't learning very much from any of those games.

I know a *little* about game design and balance. Like i say i used to write the campaign weekend rules and open day special event games for GW for a fair few years, they were always very well received and sold out events.

Lol, seriously? You're really going to hold up something related to GW as an example of good balance or understanding game design when GW's rules are so embarassingly bad that any self-respecting game designer would commit honorable suicide to cleanse the shame of having their name on the cover?

Right

Read what i said. I said i wrote their campaign systems and event games....no one ever complained about balance in those.

You make a lot of suppositions with no knowledge. pretty foolish.

How do you know i'm not learning from each game.

Experience counts for little? That sounds to be like a the keyboard warrior game theorist talking who doesnt actually play much themselves.

Nothing is 'not allowed' in out gaming group, we just tend not to be knobends when we play as we like each other.

So, amaze me, what's your game industry pedigree... ever land a job with a gaming company yourself or are you just really good at talking about games?

See the thing is interceptors only appear in singles for a reason in the competitive scene, and they tend to live because they are less of a threat than the phantom they are working with.

Han with gunner will shoot before most interceptors and will strip your defensive tokens and leave you an awkward choice let one damage through to deny him the gunner roll or hope you get lucky, neither is optimal and leaves you with no boost to your attack, then the three escorts open up on you chances are you'll lose one ship a turn.

Nine hit points isn't alot and interceptors counter that with their dial, turrets negate that advantage meaning pure lists crumble hard and fast I've been on the receiving end and it's never pretty.

Hopefully the wave six upgrade will make them less fragile against turrets.

15 hit points in the interceptor list i was using.

Read what i said. I said i wrote their campaign systems and event games....no one ever complained about balance in those.

Sure, but this is GW we're talking about, where the rabid fanboys will argue that anyone who complains about balance is a WAAC TFG who doesn't understand how the Hobby™ works. As GW has demonstrated you can publish garbage and everyone will love it as long as you have enough space marines.

How do you know i'm not learning from each game.

Your previous comments about Biggs being "unfair", playing "for fun instead of to win", etc. You'll learn a bit maybe, but because of those self-imposed limits and house rules you're not going to get very much out of them once you reach a certain threshold of basic understanding.

Now, maybe you're the exception to the rule and you're an amazing player who just happens to occasionally play with some weird rules, but in my experience most people like you never really learn anything from your games.

Nothing is 'not allowed' in out gaming group, we just tend not to be knobends when we play as we like each other.

So you don't ban anything, you just label it "WAAC" and depend on social pressure to keep people from doing it. For example, who would want to play Biggs against you if they read your forum posts and knew they could expect you to whine and cry about how unfair it is even if you don't refuse to play?

So, amaze me, what's your game industry pedigree... ever land a job with a gaming company yourself or are you just really good at talking about games?

I created this little-known game called X-Wing.

Yeah interceptors are fun to play. They are also incredibly frustrating when dice go wrong. And it happens a lot.

It is not only about turrets like Han, but ion cannons, or 4 dice attacks in general. If you get ionezed while stressed (likely), you can pretty much remove that interceptor from the table.

It is the most inconsistent list in the game. Not because it doesn't have potential, but because it can't get it done reliabily nowadays.

I will ignore the banter between iperegrine and you gadge, and think that you were just being optimistic and ecstatic after having such fun playing interceptors. I don't see you are saying they are super viable or whatever, i think you feel a lot better because you realized that you had improved at the game when flying the interceptors.

Welcome, now you had seen what can be the most rewarding and fun experience in this game. Dogfighting. And you could understand why some people dislike turrets so much.

Now, about the discussion. Your list is food for phantom, a 3 small ship list with max PS7, is just that. Also, it is food for Fat Hans (and Dash would have it even better probably), specially one with predator + Luke, because you are not going to shoot at it every turn, while he will. Somebody posted about "having one attack". That's false, there are support ships aswell, and a Fat Han with Luke + Predator is basically 2 attacks with action. If he ever gets you at range 1, things will get nasty, pretty fast. Also, a 3 interceptor list (carnor, turr VI, soontir).

I mean, iperegrine must be saying it in a way that looks overly negative, but he is right. There is no shame on it tho. , just don't extrapolate your game experience to tournament play.(i find disgusting that you seem to think that "playing" some stuff means you are being a ****, stop blaming the players and blame the developers for what you don't like)

You know in the dozens of games i've played since buying the game, i've come up against a falcon about twice. Not particularly stressed by it either time. Likewise, every time i've played against a phantom its gone down in flames.

Now either:

1. Im really good (not that likely)

2. every one ive ever played is really bad (again pushing the odds a bit)

or

3. Its a pretty well balanced game.

I suffered a bit from a HWK with a turret in the last game so in this one it was target number one.

I dont know if it makes *much* difference but we also dont play 'imp vs imp' or 'reb vs' reb' games in our groups. Only reb vs imp. Generally playing two games and having a go each of an evening.

Get enough hits in it fast enough and *anything* is going down, turretted or not

I go with 3. A falcon can only shoot 1 interceptor at a time. At range 3 where 3P0 is less effective and you get more agility it you can watch shields go down while only suffering 1 or 2 damage. When it gets down to only 4 - 5 hull left rush in and hit with 4 attack dice each. 3PO can only block one of them.

If you're massacring your opponents it's probably time to step it up a notch and play against ships your group considers OP.

I'd also ditch the rebels vs imps only thing. Play against all lists, it'll give you a greater appreciation for the game as a whole.

Taking top 4 in regionals and multiple other tournaments getting first out of 10-20 people events with a 3 interceptor and tie fighter list, turrets are nothing to stop an interceptor that has turtled. People believe them to be glass cannons, but in reality they really aren't. They are fierce tanky ships. Keep playing them, learn to love them. My favorite list so far is 2x RGPs with HU+ Stealth+PTL and Echo VI+FCS+AdvC. I say you try it out.

Right here we go again.

First off in A wing list the phantom was shredded by manouvrability and spread arcs, played three different people with phantoms and every time well placed ships with decent arc coverage has taken it down.

My opponents and I don't 'ban' imp vs imp or reb vs reb, we just don't like playing them as its not really star wars is it unless i missed a film where han in his falcon took on biggs and wedge...

Playing reb vs reb wont increase my enjoyment or appreciation of the game, its will destroy any narrative enjoyment i get out of a great game....

I'm glad you're ignoring the banter, i'm going one step further and removing him from visability.

Like I say if you run tournys enough you can spot the knobends a mile off.. when i had to run tournys i had to deal with them.. here i don't so he can grumble and slag me off all he likes... i'm just not gonna see it.... cos i just dont care what he thinks.

If someone is 'disgusted' that i dont like some game mechanics than you really need to get out more and see things in the work that are really worth getting upset about

My last word on the Biggs thing. I'd never ask anyone not to play it against me, you're right its a component in the game, in the same way i woudnt have an issue with a 'fat han'. its just that *personally* i dont like to deny choice to my opponent (other than temporarily like ionizing.... by the way in the game where i trashed the HWK i was ionized for a turn and only took that one hit, all three ints survived) so I *personally* dont take him. In a discussion where people were discussing a list with biggs i put a *personal* view in that i found game mechanics that removed choice lame.... therefore i am commenting on the designer, not the player... read posts before you critique them eh?

As for stepping up and opponent 'ability', My friend Sam i played last night plays a lot of tournaments for other games and is very into his list build. He's not way up in xwing tournaments yet but obsessive about them in other games like war machine so not all my friends are casual players.

You know in four to five years of running a GT every month or so for 200 people a time you learn a lot about player mentality, you also see what brings the worst and the best out in people in a gaming environment.

Wierdly its only ever those who bang on about 'broken rules' and OP on forums a lot about who seem to be knobends at events too.... thats if they ever actually play games for real.

Iperegrine, You created xwing eh... nice one. well your work here is done. Shame you created something you feel has balance issues so perhaps time to stop typing about the game and work on a version 2.... dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Two games today, one imperial and one rebel and two utter massacres on my part against my opponent.

Both with interceptor type lists.

First game i flew 4 a wings, Tycho, Jake and two green squadrons. All with chardan refits, all with test pilot. Tycho had predator, jake had outmanouvre, the two greens had VI and all had PTL.

I flew against Whisper with a stack of upgrades, tetran and tur phenirr. Went after the two interceptors quickly (lost tycho on the way but smashed them both) then boxed in the phantom with well spread out arcs.

Second game i ran my 'heavy interceptor' list of two royal guards and tur phennir.

All had SU and HU, the two royal guards had PTL, Turr had predator (which i forgot about all game).

Played against a five ship rebel build of two rookie Xs, two bandits and the mouldy crow.

Smashed the mouldy crow quickly then again, staying out of arc and spreading arcs ripped each rebel apart one by one.

The point of this is that i think i've just cracked the secret of decent manouvre, i used to rely on high hit points (and i guess to a degree the heavy int list is high hit point) but opening moves in my imperial game were just perfect, formation flying flank meaning two turns of smashing into the rear and the side of the rebs with concentrated fire and only the crow getting a shot back.

Just pleased to have lost one ship (out of seven quite fragile ones) in the last two games.

Interceptors for the win...

and there was me all set on B wings for a while!

The best thing you can do is fly the best of both worlds, Y-wings AND A-wings. YAY! (pun intended)

You know i thought about this but remember losing game or two quite badly where i'd paired up A wings with HWKs to support them which essentially hobbled the A wings or left the HWK unsupported. Much less of a issue with Y wings being punchier and able to soak up more.

I usually team up XXYY as i find that is great for arc coverage but the four a wings pretty much allowed me to point where i wanted most times, its just having to be close for any real firepower from the main guns.

Also don't worry about iPeregrine, he seems to always be on a crusade to prove the game isn't balanced and you're just stupid. I've never seen you whine about Biggs, just voice your opinion on his ability.

Also don't worry about iPeregrine, he seems to always be on a crusade to prove the game isn't balanced and you're just stupid. I've never seen you whine about Biggs, just voice your opinion on his ability.

What worries me is no WW turning up to troll him.

Exactly, normally I dont block anyone but since i've been here he has consistantly been an idiot on so many posts that i'm just sick of seeing the whining so I've blocked him.

My normal policy on this forum is:

1. join in if i feel i have something to say, stop reading if it gets boring or circular

2. Post a thread if im particularly interested in a subject, have something funny or interesting to show

If i've said all i need to say I'll just leave the thread, I really dont care about continuing and argument on the internet as i've got enough 'real life' to be going on to argue about who is best at toy soldiers with an idiot.

However others have made interesting points in a less bellicose way on here so I'm interested to continue

Blocking him seemed the best way of continuing to enjoy the forum by removing someone i clearly don't see eye to eye or even have much common ground with.

The irony is that I was going to give the Xwing tourny scene a go as lurking at my local store and playing in my local area with some tourny players they seem a much more fun lot than the GW tourny scene but posts like his just make me realise that i'll meet people like that who will ruin the day wherever i go so prob best to sticking to playing with people i know and like... its not like i have any shortage of those.