That ICT/title/R3-A2 Goldie isn't game-breaking but it is Falcon-breaking. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it is a very new kind of threat to large-base ships.

I can't wait. I Finally have a reason to send in the heavies with a chance they won't just annoy the enemy :-)

The Y-wing still turns like a pig, and I really don't see how it makes an effective dogfighter even with the two attacks.

Depending on Scum or Rebel, you can take the R2 Astromech or the Unhinged Astromech and you wind up with a ship that has a better dial than the E-Wing, with the only counter-arguments being that the E-Wing has a choice of 3-or-4 speed K-turn whereas the Y-Wing only has 4-speed K-turn, which is frankly not a good counter-argument, and that the E-Wing can take the R2 Astromech to gain a better dial than the Rebel Y-Wing which also has the R2 Astromech, which is a valid point. (And my counter-argument there is consider the price you're paying for the E-Wing versus the Y-Wing + astromech.)

The Y-Wing has always turned like a pig because it has never needed to do anything but that. But the strict facts are that if you're suggesting that the Y-Wing isn't able to keep things in arc (based on its only use in the past being 360 degree firing, since 2 dice attacks are weak and so there's little point in using them for their primary) then frankly we need to reconsider why anyone is playing anything but Rebels with turrets, or A-Wings. Everything else "turns like a pig". Everything else must not be able to keep things in their firing arcs.

EDIT: I forgot about B-Wings. B-Wings have a 1-turn, albeit red. B-Wings don't turn like pigs.

Another thing to bear in mind with shooting twice is the enemy may have to let normal damage through to save the token to avoid Ion damage.

It really is a nasty choice for them as unlike Gunner, letting through 1 hit, does not mean you won't get hit again.

As far as turning like a pig, once you close, it turns as well as an X-wing does on 1's and 2's, three's are rarely used and with the highly improved weapon options, I certainly have no fear of pulling a K-turn and following up next turn with a green straight or white turn.

None of what they have done has broken the game in terms of the Y, but it is now a force to be reckoned with.

A turretless self-stressing Y-wing is never going to be able to keep up with a Falcon whether it's getting stress or not.

A turretless self-stressing Y-wing will likely have a whole other ship supporting it for the same point cost as that Falcon.

The ship performs so much differently with an A4 title, it feels like something entirely new. As such, may I suggest we call it the "Warthog". It plays like the slow, unglamorous but deadly-effective real life Warthog. Tons of firepower, especially if you're a slow tank that can't get out of the way. Somehow, "Longprobe" just doesn't have the same effect (not to mention an unfortunate double entendre).

Longprobe Y-wings are built from A4s, but they are two different variants.

A league mate (Kraedin) said, and I quote:

"If the Y-wing had the ability to rotate 45, 90, and 180 degrees it might be fine, but as far as I know it has no such ability. Certainly not worth using an affordable, durable ship with excellent firepower that also ionises everyone I hit."

Where is the sarcasm font, I need it!

The Y-wing still turns like a pig, and I really don't see how it makes an effective dogfighter even with the two attacks.

I think that saying the Y-Wing turns like a pig is an old-fashioned way of looking at it.

Depending on Scum or Rebel, you can take the R2 Astromech...

The Y-Wing has always turned like a pig because it has never needed to do anything but that.

There's nothing new about the R2 Astromech - it comes in the Y-wing pack, for crying out loud. We've gone two years without anyone coming up with a shockingly good dogfighting Y-wing list despite that. A 5Y list puts as many HP on the board as anything I can think of in the game, it's always had an option for the R2, and it's really not a great list.

And that was before the last two waves, which have put hypermobile into overdrive. Phantoms will eat Y-wings alive. Turrets will outmaneuver them. Current competitive approaches are high PS repositioning and turrets, and that's for a reason. As I said, doesn't matter how many shots you take, it's not going to matter if there's nothing in front of you to shoot at.

We'll see, of course... I just think this is going to be like Stealth Devices or Ten - something that looks great on paper and has everyone drooling only to find out that in practice it's just not that beneficial.

A league mate (Kraedin) said, and I quote:

"If the Y-wing had the ability to rotate 45, 90, and 180 degrees it might be fine, but as far as I know it has no such ability. Certainly not worth using an affordable, durable ship with excellent firepower that also ionises everyone I hit."

Where is the sarcasm font, I need it!

I think the same thing could be said from the other direction...

"Cluster missiles have sucked as a one-shot, now you can take those same sucky shots ALL GAME LONG!"

Until wave 6 hits, making ywings dogfight makes no sense. So saying that r2 isnt makimg the y a dogfighter because none has done it is dumb.

A league mate (Kraedin) said, and I quote:

"If the Y-wing had the ability to rotate 45, 90, and 180 degrees it might be fine, but as far as I know it has no such ability. Certainly not worth using an affordable, durable ship with excellent firepower that also ionises everyone I hit."

Where is the sarcasm font, I need it!

I think the same thing could be said from the other direction...

"Cluster missiles have sucked as a one-shot, now you can take those same sucky shots ALL GAME LONG!"

Using an ion and the title means you take 2 shots every round for 5 points without wasting an action to fire. No comparison.

A league mate (Kraedin) said, and I quote:

"If the Y-wing had the ability to rotate 45, 90, and 180 degrees it might be fine, but as far as I know it has no such ability. Certainly not worth using an affordable, durable ship with excellent firepower that also ionises everyone I hit."

Where is the sarcasm font, I need it!

I think the same thing could be said from the other direction...

"Cluster missiles have sucked as a one-shot, now you can take those same sucky shots ALL GAME LONG!"

The expected damage from a 2-die shot with a focus followed by an ion shot with a target lock is much higher than the expected damage from two unmodified 3-die shots, so that's not really a relevant comparison.

Until wave 6 hits, making ywings dogfight makes no sense. So saying that r2 isnt makimg the y a dogfighter because none has done it is dumb.

So why did it make no sense? 40 HP with 5 2-dice attacks shouldn't be a horrible plan. TIE Bomber swarms have done more with a very comparable level of offense. Why haven't Y-wings made a showing if they were decent dogfighters?

Until wave 6 hits, making ywings dogfight makes no sense. So saying that r2 isnt makimg the y a dogfighter because none has done it is dumb.

So why did it make no sense? 40 HP with 5 2-dice attacks shouldn't be a horrible plan. TIE Bomber swarms have done more with a very comparable level of offense. Why haven't Y-wings made a showing if they were decent dogfighters?

Until wave 6 hits, making ywings dogfight makes no sense. So saying that r2 isnt makimg the y a dogfighter because none has done it is dumb.

So why did it make no sense? 40 HP with 5 2-dice attacks shouldn't be a horrible plan. TIE Bomber swarms have done more with a very comparable level of offense. Why haven't Y-wings made a showing if they were decent dogfighters?

A TIE bomber swarm deals about 45% more damage than 5 Y-wings. I think you're seriously underestimating the effect of Howlrunner on the comparison.

The glaring reason Y-Wings do not dogfight with R2 is because they have a 2 dice attack. When you can attack with 2 dice, and then attack with 3 dice and the possibility to Ion makes the R2 a good option.

I think the BTL-A4 could also push the Y-Wing into being played similar to the Defender in that you do not try and dogfight with it, but instead make strafing runs through the enemy formation.

What? Cluster missiles suck becuase you spend 4 points for the one round amd have to spend the action to fire.

Using an ion and the title means you take 2 shots every round for 5 points without wasting an action to fire. No comparison.

I think it's closer than you're giving it credit for. It's only going to be range 1-2. It's only going to be forward. You're not going to have enough tokens to make sure both attacks are efficient. It's on a relatively slow fighter with poor maneuverability. The cost and expendability are certainly in the -A4/Ion's advantage, but the potential damage output is far better for the Clusters.

You're certainly going to be able to take options which will cover for the deficiencies... a little bit. Unhinged Astromech fixes the dial! But now you use the R4. R3-A2 lets you double-stress! Cool, but how you're stuck with the base dial, AND going to be multi-stressing yourself so that you're in exactly the same boat as Cluster Missiles, except with half the potential damage (and try dogfighting without being able to clear stress except on a straight). Okay, back to R2 for more green! Well, there goes the nifty stress utility.

Honestly, I think in the end it's going to end up being a lot like Munitions Failsafe - a cool-sounding ability which is going to draw you into making bad, highly-variable choices. Take it away, Ackbar!

So if I stick R2-DS on a Gray Squad. to get opportunist, will I get that extra attack die for both shots?

If so I like a list where Wes walks the hog.

So if I stick R2-DS on a Gray Squad. to get opportunist, will I get that extra attack die for both shots?If so I like a list where Wes walks the hog.

Opportunist works for one attack, and you would be stressed an can't use it on the 2nd.

Horton Slam just needs a turret thats range 3. Right now he is kind of limited with his ability with a ICT or Blaster Turret. Range 2 is his sweet spot, but it can be hard to maintain.

You could put R2-D6 on a Gray Squadron and give it Marksmanship, that would give the A4/Ion some bite for both shots.

There's a reason Y-wings are very rarely seen without a turret.

Yes: they're inefficient on offense.

A league mate (Kraedin) said, and I quote:

"If the Y-wing had the ability to rotate 45, 90, and 180 degrees it might be fine, but as far as I know it has no such ability. Certainly not worth using an affordable, durable ship with excellent firepower that also ionises everyone I hit."

Where is the sarcasm font, I need it!

I think the same thing could be said from the other direction...

"Cluster missiles have sucked as a one-shot, now you can take those same sucky shots ALL GAME LONG!"

Disgruntled handled it, but it's worth reinforcing: Cluster Missiles are bad because you pay four points for a single extra attack, with an associated action cost. The A4 title lacks the action cost, and can be used every round.

So why did it make no sense? 40 HP with 5 2-dice attacks shouldn't be a horrible plan. TIE Bomber swarms have done more with a very comparable level of offense. Why haven't Y-wings made a showing if they were decent dogfighters?

For the same reason A-wings and TIE Advanced weren't making a substantial showing: there's a ceiling on the cost of ships with 2 Attack, and it's not a very tall one.

What? Cluster missiles suck becuase you spend 4 points for the one round amd have to spend the action to fire.

Using an ion and the title means you take 2 shots every round for 5 points without wasting an action to fire. No comparison.

I think it's closer than you're giving it credit for. It's only going to be range 1-2. It's only going to be forward. You're not going to have enough tokens to make sure both attacks are efficient. It's on a relatively slow fighter with poor maneuverability. The cost and expendability are certainly in the -A4/Ion's advantage, but the potential damage output is far better for the Clusters.

You're certainly going to be able to take options which will cover for the deficiencies... a little bit. Unhinged Astromech fixes the dial! But now you use the R4. R3-A2 lets you double-stress! Cool, but how you're stuck with the base dial, AND going to be multi-stressing yourself so that you're in exactly the same boat as Cluster Missiles, except with half the potential damage (and try dogfighting without being able to clear stress except on a straight). Okay, back to R2 for more green! Well, there goes the nifty stress utility.

Honestly, I think in the end it's going to end up being a lot like Munitions Failsafe - a cool-sounding ability which is going to draw you into making bad, highly-variable choices. Take it away, Ackbar!

What I hear you saying is that there are a lot of potential ways to outfit a Y-wing with (as well as without) the A4 title, each with its own advantages and drawbacks. Time will tell, of course, whether the drawbacks outweigh the advantages in every case--but I rather suspect we'll see at least one or two innovative, competitive Wave 6 builds that incorporate Y-wings.

Yea that's what I'm looking for. Something that will have impact for the whole round of double-shooting. I think you load that ywing up with the blaster turret, throw marksmanship on it, and fly it w/Garven or Cracken, and you got a durable, heavy hitter.

I know, I know, it'll never have anything in arc. Although maybe, just maybe, if you fly with a bit of instinct, you just might be able to anticipate where the bogies are gonna pop up.

You could put R2-D6 on a Gray Squadron and give it Marksmanship, that would give the A4/Ion some bite for both shots.

Is that worth 29 points?

Yea that's what I'm looking for. Something that will have impact for the whole round of double-shooting. I think you load that ywing up with the blaster turret, throw marksmanship on it, and fly it w/Garven or Cracken, and you got a durable, heavy hitter.

I know, I know, it'll never have anything in arc. Although maybe, just maybe, if you fly with a bit of instinct, you just might be able to anticipate where the bogies are gonna pop up.

I think the Ion Turret will end up being a lot more reliable then Blaster.

I'm not sure if I like predator or marksmanship better, but time will tell there. I think getting shots will take some tricky flying, but nothing impossible, and once you get behind someone, it'll be like the good ol' days of beam weapons in X-Wing/TIE Fighter, disable 'em and follow 'em pouring fire into their backside.