So I am planning on starting a Force and Destiny campaign with a few guys that I am doing an EotE game with. They are wanting Mandalorian armor, one wants a bounty hunter/tracker type build, the other is also wanting a second Force rating point. I have been solid in my stance that Mandalorian armor is going to be extremely rare in the universe and starting characters shouldn't be too powerful with the Force at this point.

I am trying to do a little more research on Mandalorian armor, but everything I am finding is just re-enforcing my stance, that I don't want a Jedi in Mandalorian armor.

As for the second guy, I don't think I will ever be swayed to change my mind on the second Force rating point, he is going to have to earn it.

I guess my question is, under what circumstances would you allow a starting Jedi character to have Mandalorian armor in Force and Destiny?

I guess my question is, under what circumstances would you allow a starting Jedi character to have Mandalorian armor in Force and Destiny?

Extreme physical torture as generally forbidden by the Geneva Conventions.

Gotta open with:

See "Mandalorian Armor" currently does not have a set of unique stats to my knowledge. So that means you really need to define what you think it means and why. This is where opinions are going to differ widely. Some will argue it's all uber and specific, others not so much. Even the current canon can't help as now we're seeing things like Sabine's armor that's a bit smaller and lighter then the Fetts and Deathwatch.

So I'd say, don't ask us what we'd give. Ask your players "What do you mean by mandalorian armor?" You might get different answers from each.

For me at it's core it probably just means Heavy Battle Armor made by a mandalorian using mandalorian designs and styles.... that's it. And while I might not hand it over to the players on day one, I've got no beef giving it to them a few adventures in. It's not much better then armored robes really.

See all the stuff that makes "mandalorian armor" cool is largely attachments and upgrades that you add on to the armor (both literally an mechanically speaking) or just stuff you use WITH the armor.

Built in comlinks, targeting packs, cortosis reinforcements, that doesn't have to be an inherent quality. Some people expect it to be based on various EU sources, but nowhere in the films (or even in the toons that I can remember) does someone say "Ooooh Mandalorians... our lightsabers won't cut through their armor!"

Jetpacks, wrist weapons, and so forth, are all additional items, and again, not inherent qualities. Yes, these are all items that are popular with mandalorians we've seen so far, and there's probably lots of these items of mandalorian make, but again we don't have any current example of someone defining the armor as coming with it.

So that's my 2 credits.

If they want armor, give em armor.

If they want to be a force-using, saber-swinging, jetpack flying, wrist-rocket firing, Fett Armor wearing bad arses... tell em that's where a character ends, not where it starts, but you've noted the desire and will make an effort to make it happen come the campaign finale.

Who knows, after they start playing maybe they'll change their minds...

I'd find out, as already suggested, what their expectations are and see if they jive with yours. To me this sounds like a couple of munchkins, but I don't want to presume that just off your post. "I want +5 plate mail and a vorpal sword or the ability to cast 5th level spells as a beginning character!" Maybe consider starting them at knight-level to give them some more experienced characters to start.

My players just buy what they can afford and reflavor it as Mando armor. If they buy something better, they can just narrate that they have tinkered with their armor some and now it is improved.

GhostOfMan and MouthyMerc are absotutely right about figuring out expectations, and starting from there. I also like Mouthy's suggestion of starting out as Knight Play. Give them some XP and creds to work with. If they can't get a higher FR or awesome armor with that, then they have some conflicting priorities.

Finally, for all the things Jango's and Boba's armor can do, you won't find rules for. In fact, most of that was meant to be achieved through the Bounty Hunter: Gadgeteer specialization. Take a look at that spec, and make sure you do not devalue it too much.

As for the second guy, I don't think I will ever be swayed to change my mind on the second Force rating point, he is going to have to earn it.

Do you mean he want a second Force Rating point as a starting character without spending XP on it?

Yeah; no. Earn the xp and buy it. Or spend staring xp and buy the talents needed instead of characteristics.

Finally, for all the things Jango's and Boba's armor can do, you won't find rules for.

Again:

Wrist mounted weapons, armor widgets for targeting, comlinks, specialty kits for environments, general improvements, all do currently exist in the rules.

Some specifics like mini missiles, mini flamethrowers, and jetpack rocket launchers aren't out yet.

So while you can't get all the way to Jango/Boba just yet, you can get bloody close.

When I ran the Edge Beta game one player ran a former Mandalorian who was wearing laminate armour as I recall from the extra money gained from the extra obligation.

Tend to agree with the above, out of curiosity did any of them go for the extra 10xp instead of the 2,500 extra credits?

Was wondering if they gave any thought of using that extra 10xp to gain a basic lightsaber, I really need to reread the F&D beta about that!

Can't see a reason not to allow him to take the Force Rating talent, if he wants to pay his way up the tree to get there. He will have, as you said, "earned it" by losing out on the opportunity to buy a bunch of other things. The RAW actually handles munchkins pretty well.

Was wondering if they gave any thought of using that extra 10xp to gain a basic lightsaber, I really need to reread the F&D beta about that!

...I'm a little confused on this statement. The only way to start with a basic lightsaber in F&D currently is to have a GM who starts everyone at Knight-Level (+150xp, 9,000 credits or a basic lightsaber with an ilum crystal). You can't spend XP to buy a lightsaber.

Can't see a reason not to allow him to take the Force Rating talent, if he wants to pay his way up the tree to get there. He will have, as you said, "earned it" by losing out on the opportunity to buy a bunch of other things. The RAW actually handles munchkins pretty well.

I don't think the OP was denying him the ability to do it; I think the player was asking the OP if he could just "start" with Force Rating 2 at no cost or consequence.

Here's what I would do. I would let them have the armor but remind them that Mandalore and the Jedi have never really had good relations. Some of the more honorbound Mandos (Deathwatch for example) might see a Jedi wearing Mandalorian armor as a stain on the honor of Mandalore, sending their best to come after the group to remove said stain.

I am hoping for a set Official Stat's Mandalorian Armor. I'm betting on the Bounty Hunter Class Splatbook. Lots of Hard Points, I am sure.

In lore Boba Fett's armor was not traditional Beskargam (sp?) and couldn't ignore breach. My money is on a good soak (2 or 3) but not quite Battle Armor, and 6 HP. Probably Restricted and Expensive.

I wouldn't hand this out in the beginning though. I would let them spend their starting credits on armor and have it LOOK like whatever style they liked, but it wouldn't be the good stuff.

In lore Boba Fett's armor was not traditional Beskargam (sp?) and couldn't ignore breach. My money is on a good soak (2 or 3) but not quite Battle Armor, and 6 HP. Probably Restricted and Expensive.

In lore Boba Fett's armor was not traditional Beskargam (sp?) and couldn't ignore breach. My money is on a good soak (2 or 3) but not quite Battle Armor, and 6 HP. Probably Restricted and Expensive.

Not initially, but later it was.

In the earliest material for Fett, he wasn't even a Mandalorian himself, but was rather someone that took inspiration from their look and modeled his armor in that particular style. It was only much later that he was actually made a Mandalorian instead of a guy wearing Mandalorian-themed armor, and even then his armor wasn't noted as being made of any special materials.

Those were all EU elements, so as far as the current canon goes, Fett's back to just being a bounty hunter wearing Mandalorian-styled armor that's been packed with extra gadgets.

I tend to agree with the viewpoint that Mando Armor is just heavy battle armor. The various widgets and extras being attachments or add on equipment. For example one of my players wanted a wrist-mounted flame-thrower using the attachment in Dangerous Covenant. I house-ruled a pistol sized flamer weapon for him to use and it only took five minutes of comparison to get something that seems to work.

Regarding the force rating 2 issue. I'd only say yes to that if you as a GM were granting a starting "Boon" to all the players as I've done n my current/first game of EotE. Two characters chose a free dedication talent, one chose to have a extra-force rating die, one wanted integrated weapon systems, (Our murderbot.) and the final player used his boon to gain a cloak for the PC's starting ship.

TL;dr: Know what you're player's think something is. Then try to work with them. No on the extra Force Die unless all your players get something comparable, and even then I'd only do it for a first game to get some excitement going for it. Though I have two or three players that aren't as big of SW fans as me and the others in my group.

They want this stuff for nothing...at the beginning of a campaign?....I sense problem players.

My viewpoint is there are various styles of Mando Armor. I would guess Sabine's is Probably Armored Clothing. The Fetts probably have Heavy battle armor. And there are likely other styles. There will probably be a mando steel attachment in the bounty hunter book as well as rockets, Jet boots etc.

My take has always been that how your armor looks is purely cosmetic, so I let my players tell me how their character looks.

For example, during character creation, one of my players asked me if she could have Mandalorian armor. Obviously she couldn't afford what was, mechanically, Heavy Battle Armor. I asked, "Do you want your armor to look like Mandalorian armor?" When she said yes, I told her that her character had a Mando-styled helmet but the rest of her armor was her standard padded fare.

From that, she was able to form a whole thing about finding the helmet, researching Mandalorians and falling in love with the culture, even gaining the motivation to build her own set someday. The helmet became her character's prized possession. She didn't mind that, mechanically, she got nothing from having the helmet.

In the end, it's all aesthetics in the mind's eye. If you acknowledge your players' ways of seeing the world they're playing in, they'll get more out of the experience and trust your storytelling and world-building.

I'd say Sabine's is padded armor; while it is fitting to her body it still looks like an armor more than a set of clothes.

My viewpoint is there are various styles of Mando Armor. I would guess Sabine's is Probably Armored Clothing. The Fetts probably have Heavy battle armor. And there are likely other styles. There will probably be a mando steel attachment in the bounty hunter book as well as rockets, Jet boots etc.

Armored clothing is concealable though.

I waiting to see a few more things before making a solid call on Sabine's kit. Offhand I want to give it stats roughly on par with padded armor (all we've seen it use so far is a built in comlink, which doesn't require a HP), but something that was said in a preview has me... cautious. While all she's got now is a shorty vest, helmet, and knee/elbow pads, it was mentioned in a preview that as the series went on she'd get more armor components and her armor would fill out to become more like what we've seen with other mandos...

Stat-wise it brings up some neat ideas of having partial armor that starts as just +2 soak, and as pieces are added it gains HP and Defenses....

My viewpoint is there are various styles of Mando Armor. I would guess Sabine's is Probably Armored Clothing. The Fetts probably have Heavy battle armor. And there are likely other styles. There will probably be a mando steel attachment in the bounty hunter book as well as rockets, Jet boots etc.

Armored clothing is concealable though.

I waiting to see a few more things before making a solid call on Sabine's kit. Offhand I want to give it stats roughly on par with padded armor (all we've seen it use so far is a built in comlink, which doesn't require a HP), but something that was said in a preview has me... cautious. While all she's got now is a shorty vest, helmet, and knee/elbow pads, it was mentioned in a preview that as the series went on she'd get more armor components and her armor would fill out to become more like what we've seen with other mandos...

Stat-wise it brings up some neat ideas of having partial armor that starts as just +2 soak, and as pieces are added it gains HP and Defenses....

Sabine also has the flip down vision enhancement on her helmet that Captain Rex had in The Clone Wars series.

My viewpoint is there are various styles of Mando Armor. I would guess Sabine's is Probably Armored Clothing. The Fetts probably have Heavy battle armor. And there are likely other styles. There will probably be a mando steel attachment in the bounty hunter book as well as rockets, Jet boots etc.

Armored clothing is concealable though.

I waiting to see a few more things before making a solid call on Sabine's kit. Offhand I want to give it stats roughly on par with padded armor (all we've seen it use so far is a built in comlink, which doesn't require a HP), but something that was said in a preview has me... cautious. While all she's got now is a shorty vest, helmet, and knee/elbow pads, it was mentioned in a preview that as the series went on she'd get more armor components and her armor would fill out to become more like what we've seen with other mandos...

Stat-wise it brings up some neat ideas of having partial armor that starts as just +2 soak, and as pieces are added it gains HP and Defenses....

Sabine also has the flip down vision enhancement on her helmet that Captain Rex had in The Clone Wars series.

She's got the antenna thing that looks like it, but since I can't remember actually seeing her use it yet I didn't want to assume...

Do you mean he want a second Force Rating point as a starting character without spending XP on it?

One thing I've done to emulate "Temple-trained Jedi" in my Invasion of Theed conversion is to give the young Padawans FR2 from their careers. As a one-shot, balance isn't really a concern -- it's more of a fun teaching tool scenario, and I didn't want to muddy the waters with loads of XP and extra talent it would take to get there by RAW. Also, and this relates to this other thread , F&D RAW is fully consistent with the previous two books in terms of character portfolio vs. XP, which is great, but probably not consistent with the pedagogy of Jedi before the purge.

One thing I've done to emulate "Temple-trained Jedi" in my Invasion of Theed conversion is to give the young Padawans FR2 from their careers. As a one-shot, balance isn't really a concern -- it's more of a fun teaching tool scenario, and I didn't want to muddy the waters with loads of XP and extra talent it would take to get there by RAW. Also, and this relates to this other thread , F&D RAW is fully consistent with the previous two books in terms of character portfolio vs. XP, which is great, but probably not consistent with the pedagogy of Jedi before the purge.

If you want to house-rule something, based on what you give up to get the "free" Force Rating 1, its worth about 10XP (5XP per 2 career skills based on career skill granting talents, 5XP per skill point). That puts it on par with characteristics. If I were going to allow someone to get FR2 without going through the trees, I'd charge them the 20XP upfront. For Lorne's use-case it doesn't really affect anything. Still seems a little to cheap though.

Yeah, not sure how I'd turn it into a general house rule, but anything less than 25XP (owing to its usual tree placement) seems OP.