A few questions that came up during our first Innsmouth games:

1. If you end your movement on a gate in Innsmouth, do you have to roll the Evade check? If you do, does this include returning from Other Worlds?

2. Can you use cards like Mythos Lore, Granny Orne and Changed to put a clue token on the Feds track?

3. If you would both Pass and Fail a personal story, which happens first?

My interpretations:

1. Probably yes; makes closing gates in Innsmouth much harder, but that might be the intent.

2. I'd allow it, taking the clue from the bank, but it could go either way.

3. Question came up when someone wanted to read his third tome with Minh Thi Phan, which would have driven him insane, but I know the question has been asked before regarding Wendy. I decided that all of the effects of the tome should be resolved before she could gainthe token, and by that time she was already insane, but it could very well be interpreted differently. Her personal story even says "Each time Minh Thi Phan reads a tome, [snipped] and a case could be made that she doesn't have to successfully read the tome.

Funny story I have to share. We actually lost our game against Bokrug because I had a Bast token. Since Trish doesn't need any focus, I bought her a Bast token. Because of that token, a Skeleton from Devil Reef did not move toward her. Next turn, we didn't have anyone to spare to stay on an aquatic location and of course the Skeleton proceeded right into the Vortex. Needless to say, a few rounds later Bokrug woke due to the Deep Ones Rising track, and made short work of us with -6 on the combat check and 18 Doom Tokens.

I would vote that ending movement on a gate wouldn't provoke the evade check because the gate 'replaces' the location, so you're not ending your movement in an location with a modifier.

I would like to add a question to the thread however. Is McGlenn immune to Cthugha's ability? Basically, does the stamina damage happen as the investigator spend the movement points (thus occuring one point at a time and allow McGlenn to negate it) or is it at the cumulative at the end of the turn (and McGlenn only reduces it by one)?

EvilAmarant7x said:

1) I didn't even think that the gate replaces the location. I'll use that reasoning to justify why you don't get arrested. Thanks!

2) Ordinarily when dealing with McGlen's and Walters's abilities, I take the cumulative sum and subtract one. For example: the Blood Magic environment card has you roll dice equal to your stamina, losing one for each failed die. I take this to mean that McGlen merely can never fall to 0 stamina; not that he doesn't lose any, because they're multiple hits of 1 stamina. But...

...I have not seen Cthugha's sheet yet. If you lose one for each movement point you use past a certain amount, I would take that to mean McGlen is immune. The movement spaces are, after all, one at a time. Unless the sheet says you lose the stamina after the movement and not during, I would not count the stamina loss as cumulative.

I play with the gate replacing the location the first turn your come out. Since you have to fight monsters the second turn out I figure you'd get encounters too. Thematically, I see the investigator looking for a better way to do things since they failed their first attempt.

Morgaln said:

1. I would. Primarily because Martial Law is a "global" effect. Gates replacing locations is a local thing, and it has to do with the Encounter Phase. Martial Law is everywhere, and affects the Movement Phase. Plus, it's Innsmouth. While I am not a stickler for the "whatever hurts us more" unwritten rule...this is Innsmouth.

2. I don't see why not. The act of "taking one of your Clue tokens and placing it on the Fed Track" shouldn't be stuck on "literally".

3. I posed the Wendy dilemma, so I don't know.

4. Cthugha: "...each Investigator loses 1 Stamina for each movement point over 3 he spends each turn." How many movement points did you use that turn? Subtract 3 from that, and lose that much Stamina. Michael loses one less than that. I can see how that can be read differently, but anything else is just being insidious. Even thematically: the more you walk, the more heat exhaustion you acquire until you stop. Michael is tough enough to come out of that a little stronger than the others, but he doesn't have a magical "heat sink" that kicks in once he moves more than a certain fixed distance.

jgt7771 said:

I would ordinarily agree, but now the question arises: when does the investigator lose the stamina? While moving, or after? Immediately when movement is ended, or at the end of the movement phase? This second question is particularly important if you're trying to evade a monster, but fail.

The way my group has been handling this is to say that the gate supersedes the martial law effect as other posters have pointed out. But as soon as you close or seal the gate martial law is restored and you have to make an immediate check or be arrested. Maybe not 100% RAW but seems fair.

"while cthugha stirs in its slumber, each investigator loses 1 stamina for each movement point over 3 he spends each turn."

I can't get much in the way of timing out of that statement. Thematically, I took this as individual points of damage that occur during the movement phase, the investigator is pushing himself to go that extra space, and loses stamina. Otherwise he's losing alot of stamina at the same time all after he's done moving, which could bring into questions of timing between the stamina loss and combat. If you say the loss happens at the end of the movement phase, then it's all at once, but that happens after combat, which would create issues. If you say that the stamina loss occurs after an investigator stops spending movement points, it just kinda seems haphazard to me. Not as good a reason I know. Losing the stamina as the investigator pushes himself rather than after all the effort is done just works better for me.

Losing points individually would also defeat investigators attempting to cancel the damage with flesh ward or the obsidian statue, so there's a downside to each way of handing Cthugha's ability.

EvilAmarant7x said:

Hmm. Reads to me like you keep a total of movement points - otherwise the 'over 3' part doesn't seem to make much sense. Even reading a tome is typically 2 movement points, so if you spend movement points one by one (or two at once for reading a tome) everyone could be argued to be immune.

Thematically it makes more sense to me to be able to ward yourself with a spell, then have a long walk and prevent being burned to ash by the unnatural heat.

I'd probably decide to have investigators lose 1 Stamina each time they spend a movement point after the third, for simplicity's sake. That way you don't have to remember how many points you really spent and don't have to recount at the end of movement. It's also less easy to forget that way.

Also, I left out the line that says spending movement for tomes doesn't count against the limit of three. The extreme heat doesn't prevent investigators from reading their materials.

Morgaln said:

1. I'd say you don't have to make an evade check, since the evade modifier depends on the location, but the location is replaced by the gate.

2. I'm sure it's possible.

3. In your example, I'd say she successfully read the tome (which happened first -> story passed), and as a result she went insane (after reading the tome). In general, if you pass and fail at the exact same time, I'd rule one of the following (not sure which one):

a) nothing happens, or

b) you discard your personal story card, so you're neither able to pass or fail it anymore.

In the case of Cthugha, I'd rule that you lose Stamina at the end of movement, but not necessarily at the end of the movement phase. This means McGlen subtracts 1 from the total, Flesh Ward can cancel all, and you lose stamina before entering combat (which ends movement), so you cannot be knocked unconscious twice during movement this way.

Morgaln said:

I can't quite see the problem. Either there is a clear sequence, then there's no problem. Or they genuinly happen at the same time - here the rulebook says the first player gets to decide the what happens first.

Morgaln said:

Bump from a while back, but KW just posted on BGG:

"You do not make Martial Law checks on locations with open gates."

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/413289

Wow, this Cthugha question is a doozy. Thematically, you would think it would work with an investigator losing one stamina at a time each time he moves a space out in the heat, but then it makes better sense with the game mechanics to keep a running total and lose the stamina once movement is complete. Is there a way this question can be submitted directly to FFG?

Dam said:

BOOOOOOOOOO!!!

That SUCKS. "Naw, no point goin' in there...there's a Gate in the back room. There's no way he'd be in any of the rest of the rooms, right? Move along."

D I S A P P O I N T E D .

As I mentioned over on BGG, only affects EOoD and Marsh Refinery. Devil's Reef and Y'ha both have the '-' for their Martial Law roll. Innsmouth cops are bad, but not SEAL-bad .