With a larger image now. Krassis is the bottom firespray with Whisper. Fett the top with Echo.

Ok, so you're the player that has the two Firesprays and your opponent is trying to hedge you in with two phantoms and an AP.

It is maneuver selection time: What moves do you pick for your two Firesprays?

Fett is PS10 and Krassis is PS5. You're flying against AP PS1, Echo PS8 (V.I.) and Whisper PS9 (V.I.)

I would pick a 3 right turn with Krassis. Whisper can't go left and if I make a turn I can block the other lane for a BR on decloak, leaving only a straight lane for decloak.

I would pick a 3 left turn for Fett. That would leave the AP and Echo in my rear arc and I may bump whisper (if she goes that way) but then I touch and restrict her shot for this round.

pic2275977_md.png for what the two players did next.

This is a good idea, I was also thinking that this board might use a "find the mate in 4" type of exercise, as opposed to list-building.

The bad part though is that i can't tell which is krassis and which is Bobba, the pics are too low res (even after saving them).

I would choose a 4 straight for Krassis (assuming he's the ship closer to the bottom) to try and force the Phantom near the bottom to choose between bumping or being in the Krassis' re-arc. Scale makes it difficult to estimate but only a 2 straight manuever and de-cloaking to the right would allow the Phantom a side shot. Even then Krassis stands a good chance of having a shot at another enemy ship.

For Boba I'd choose a 2 left turn as that will most likely give me a shot on the bottom Phantom, while forcing the the top Phantom to deal with the asteroid.

The top Phantom will have trouble getting a good shot because the of the asteroid and the Academy pilot is simply not going to have a shot. With those maneuvers at least one of the Firesprays should have a shot on the bottom Phantom, potentially both.

Added in larger image. It goes by a 1-1 from when I crop it. I'll have to remember that when I screenshot in the future.

Nice to see someone doing this for X-wing. A buddy of mine and I did this for the Star Wars Miniatures Game for freelance for Wizards. Contact FFG now before someone steals your concept!

http://community.wizards.com/forum/star-wars%C2%AE-miniatures-general/threads/1062386

Without knowing what is on the firesprays (Navigator, hlc?), I think 3 right turn for Krassis is good for blocking the right decloak area for whisper. Thus you force Whisper to try to decloak left, which may not happen due to asteroid, or decloak forward.

For Fett, I choose 3 fwd.

The AP has literally nowhere to go, so either has to do 5 fwd or run into fett. If Whisper decloaks forward, it's likely the maneuver will do one of 2 things:

1. Get into Fett's way, thus Fett will crash into Whisper and Whisper will not be able to attack, therefore no recloak.
2. Get Whisper into an area where Fett can get a rear arc shot.

If Fett crashes into Whisper, Fett will still have a good chance of having a Rear arc shot on Echo anyway. Or at a minimum the AP. If Fett doesn't crash into Whisper, Fett has a good chance of finishing Whisper off before Whisper attacks. Plus, if Fett diesn't finish off Whisper, Krassis will have a shot on either Whisper or the AP.

Next round Krassis does 1 bank right to clear stress. Then next round turn to have a shot on Echo.

@ hothie

I was watching this game then I popped over to watch you play Sozin and his Jake, Tycho, ORS squad. Was painful to watch 2 attack vs 3 def.

I think the 3 forward is a better choice for Fett in this case. I guessed a 3 turn to setup for the next round ( and to clear the asteroids) but it would have left Echo and Whisper out of arc. I wasn't sure if Fett would've fit in between the asteroids.

The next time I post a session I'll make the image larger and list what the ships have.

I came up with this idea while observing other players' games and making moves that I wouldn't have done and wondering what they were thinking at the time. I'll post future screenshots of observed points of interest for tactical discussion.

good god. please do this more.

thank you. may i have more sir?

please. youve really helped me. i was just lamenting how i couldn't use firesprays rear arc. plus combating phantom is hard anyway.

I would Krassis K-4 and Boba easy 1 left.

Krassis needs to be able to fire the HLC in order to make the most use out of him, anyway HLC shots are honestly the only reliable way to even scratch cloaked phantoms w/ tokens, so shooting out the rear for Krassis is very ineffective and not recommended. Anyway, after the K4 Krassis can clear the stress with a forward 1 or do a 2 hard right, and go after Echo.

Meanwhile Boba would do a easy 1 left downwards to catch Whisper, who would be very likely to decloak into Krassis' blindspot (which most players would do). Easy 1 downwards would put Boba at range 1 of any targets hiding in Krassis' left blind spot, and with PS10, there is a chance that you could OHKO the phantom, if not at least knock off 2 shields. Next turn Boba has a lot of maneuvering options, either he does a K or he hard turn right or anything really

I would Krassis K-4 and Boba easy 1 left.

Krassis needs to be able to fire the HLC in order to make the most use out of him, anyway HLC shots are honestly the only reliable way to even scratch cloaked phantoms w/ tokens, so shooting out the rear for Krassis is very ineffective and not recommended. Anyway, after the K4 Krassis can clear the stress with a forward 1 or do a 2 hard right, and go after Echo.

Meanwhile Boba would do a easy 1 left downwards to catch Whisper, who would be very likely to decloak into Krassis' blindspot (which most players would do). Easy 1 downwards would put Boba at range 1 of any targets hiding in Krassis' left blind spot, and with PS10, there is a chance that you could OHKO the phantom, if not at least knock off 2 shields. Next turn Boba has a lot of maneuvering options, either he does a K or he hard turn right or anything really

Unfortunately Krassis is carrying a stress token and a K-turn would play into the phantom players hand.

The 1 left bank for Fett would also put Whisper in a difficult position. If Whisper barrel rolls to the right, she will either turn left or right to try and get one of the Firesprays in arc, leaving her short of clearing Fett's arc. If Whisper goes for a straight decloak, she could end up blocking Fett and neither her or Fett gets a shot as they end up touching one another. However, as Whisper had been using her high PS to grind down Krassis, I would bet that she would continue to hunt him and maneuver to where he would be, forgetting about Fett coming in to cover Krassis' behind. Therefore, Whisper would look to go to a right BR to catch Krassis.

I agree, K-turning Krassis isn't the best thing you can do right now. A focused range 1 shot with your back to Whisper is better than 4 dice with reroll. It's not even guaranteed you get a shot, Whisper can easily account for that and end up in your blind side.

As I'm typing this, I must say it's interesting to know what damage can happen. OHKO isn't as likely as Duraham likes to think.

==== Combat Odds ====

Bobba at range 1 vs a focused Phantom has 4.44% chance of taking it out. At range 2, we're already talking of 70% chance of Bobba doing 1 damage or less, which is perfectly fine.

Krassis at range 1 with no focus (which can happen) will have 73.24% of doing 1 or less damage and 0.9% chance of OHKO on the Phantom. Even together they wouldn't have that good a chance of killing it on the spot, but the Phantom player will try to not get both Firesprays shooting at Whisper.

Krassis cannon with reroll isn't faring any better, because it doesn't have focus: 0.54 average damage, 85% chance of doing 1 or less damage. Because of the reroll it has a smaller variance, and gets closer to 1 average, but still it has little chance of going above 1 damage.

A range 1 Whisper shot on a Krassis without focus would come out at an average of 3 damage.

Bottom line from the math is, The Phantom wants to avoid Bobba, but a shot at Krassis at this point can be beneficial but is not crucial, given that the position is overall bad.

The Firespray player wants to shoot with Bobba and Krassis with focus, rather than with a Cannon (to maximize chance of higher damage).

Side-topic: It would be interesting to assess whether an exchange is "good" or "bad". Am I interested in trading 1HP on Whisper for 3HP on Krassis? Can I get a better exchange? Can I disengage and hope for a better exchange next round?

==== Maneuvers ====

I'm going to start this discussion from the Phantoms' point of view, I find that helps a lot.

It seems you can get Whisper in a nasty position here, so let's start by seeing her possibilities. Decloak left is ruled out because of the asteroids, but it's a 3mm deal. Here's a position where Echo would shine, decloak back left and 1 right turn would leave her hugging the asteroid, with a good shot on the right side. But Whisper is left with two decloak paths. Her objective is to get as few shots as possible from the two Firesprays, preferably none from Bobba, and has to make sure she doesn't bump into Krassis.

If Krassis K-turns (let's assume he doesn't have a stress for this option), with either a 3K or a 4K, the Phantom can decloak forward, 1 hard right, then BR out of the arc of Bobba. This would leave her just under the asteroid, where's there's a smaller chance that Bobba will be able to hit. This is rather dangerous, since if Krassis blocks decloak front, then Whisper has to decloak right, 1 right brings her into a bad position for the next turn, even if she cloaks.

If Krassis does a 3-turn right or a 2-turn, he blocks the forward decloak (as I see it) and there's no maneuver to help Whisper shoot him (other than a 4-k, which leaves the Phantom exposed to a Bobba range3 without focus and Krassis range 2 with focus - from ability - quite bad)

If Krassis does anything on the left side (a bank mainly), then Whisper has a favorable right decloak, 1 hard left, which exposes her to only one shot from Bobba at range 3, if at all.

Given all of this, I would either put a 2 hard left on Whisper, to shoot either Krassis or Bobba. Krassis cannot shoot me in any configuration with this maneuver, Bobba might have a long-range shot. If the forward decloak is free Whisper can go forward and get into Bobba's way, blocking him (that's good). If forward is blocked decloak right and 2 hard left crashes into Krassis, again exposed to Bobba range 3.

The other option for Whisper is a bank 3 and cloak, live to fight another day. With two Phantoms you can afford to do that, since even with a crappy shot from Echo from behind an asteroid you can still get damage done in this round.

Where does that leave us with the Firesprays? Krassis cannot block right decloak, so he might as well do a 1-bank right, which blocks forward decloak and gives him a focus, which he can use very well if Whisper ends up somewhere in his arc.

What about Bobba? I would leave a 1-bank left is reasonably safe, but can bump Whisper. A 3-bank is also possible, it would cover right decloak maneuvers on Whisper and if Whisper gets in the way with a forward decloak, you could choose a 3-bank to the right, maybe hit the debris field (which isn't absolutely terrible, you still get to shoot at Echo at a nice range - with focus, right?). I dont like 3-forward on Bobba, it leaves him exposed to all of Whisper's possibilities with 0% chance of him shooting back.

Okay, final pair of ships: AP and Echo. I would go 4/5 forward with the AP. The reason is that it blocks a few viable options for Echo (together with Bobba, who hasn't moved yet), namely decloak forward left with 2forward/2bank right and decloak front left with 2-bank left.

A cunning Echo is left with two viable options, which the AP is less likely to block (since they aren't that obvious): one is decloak front-right with a 4-forward, which is unblockable, leaves Echo behind an asteroid, with an almost guaranteed shot on Bobba. The other is a decloak forward-left, with a 3 bank to the right, which leaves Echo crashing into Bobba, but in a good position. I consider the 4 forward to be the best option, Bobba will either have a shot at her through an asteroid or not at all.

Oh and if you crash the AP with a 2 forward you don't accomplish anything, 2 dice with no focus vs. 5 dice is not going to happen (86% no damage), besides having 22.8% chance of being OHKO by Echo.

This exercise is really nice, it takes a lot of time to go through the many possibilities, but it may generate a better "game sense" than we indulge here on the forums. As I mentioned, I was considering posting a puzzle like this as well. You wouldn't mind Sergovan, would you (not today, but sometime in the near future)?

@ chilligan: I haven't trademarked the idea so if you want to start a thread designed around it you can. I think I should point out that Sable Gryphon should get the nod as he did this with the Lambdas to help players pilot them better. I'm just taking it to a game in progress style with analysis.

I like that you did both sides of the strategy as that is often what I think about when planning maneuvers - what is my opponent likely to do?

Lets just tag them [strategy Sessions] to help them stand out from the rest of the threads.

I liked your analysis of the situation. I'm hoping that by disecting a piece of combat, players can see the thought processes involved with making maneuvers and how good strategy can help them win more games.

After looking at the map, I would've done a one left bank for both of them. It creates firing arcs in every direction. It also most likely gives Krassis a shot on wherever the Phantom would show up. Bobba would cover Krassis' flank, but probably get a rear shot at whatever comes up behind him.

After looking at the pictures of the next turn, I think it would've worked. Bobba would've been able to shoot anyone and Krassis would get a shot off at the Phantom in front of him.

As I remember SableGryphon used Vassal to illustrate a point. This is more of a puzzle, similar to last-page chess puzzles in newspapers. But we can wait for him to give the ok if you feel it's necessary.

I like this style of analysis, since you get a lot more info than what you would get in perhaps 3-4 minutes of thinking on the spot. I try to talk about possibilities at length in training matches but this way I also get the added benefit of looking up the odds for some of the shots.

I forgot to look at the following turn. I only now see that the AP is on the Phantoms' side. Oops! 3-hard right suddenly makes sense, I would also BR to be closer to Krassis, not necessarily to catch him that turn, but to make it easier on the following to block somebody. If I had been playing the Phantoms I would be taking a bit of damage with Whisper, but doing 2x range 1 Phantom shots on Bobba, that's a pretty fair trade. If I had been playing the Firesprays I would have a range 2 shot with Bobba on both Echo and Whisper and a range 1 back-shot with Krassis.

The bottom phantom, can barrel roll (decloak) to its left or the asteroid is blocking it ?

Because what i would do rely on that, is it whisper ?

Hmm...

I like this sort of thread. Actually talking about outflying your opponent rather than simply trying to win by listbuilding!

There are three possible goals for the turn:

1. Outmanouvre the enemy to put yourself at an advantage for future turns.
2. Try to kill the academy pilot - it's the easiest 'kill', scores you points, and reduces his tactical options.
3. Try to hurt a Phantom. A kill would be ideal, but I'd settle for severely hurt.

"1" can get stuffed. Trying to outfly a Phantom in what is essentially an X-wing with a fat arse is never going to work. If He thinks he's in trouble, he can cloak-bounce clear of a 'kill zone' more easily than I can set it up.

"2" - not a bad plan per se. Depends on the amount of damage and how far you are through any time limit. If I want to kill the academy pilot, then I want to lay both firespray's guns on it.

In order to clear Boba Fett and Krassis, he can't do any speed 1 manouvres (unless he wants to break right and risk the asteroid) or speed 2 (unless breaking left and risking the asteroid). Speed 3 break hard right might work, but I'm not sure and I'd imagine he wouldn't be either. Therefore, he's probably going to do a Speed 4 or 5 straight, or - more likely - a speed 4 Koiogran so he can keep shooting at me.

In that case, manouvres are fairly easy. Krassis does a gentle bank right to line up his rear guns and clear stress. Speed 1 is less likely to leave you at range 3, whilst a faster bank is more likely to put you clear of where whisper can attack you. Boba might as well go straight - leaves the rear arc at 45' in case the TIE does break right or decides to risk an asteroid impact.

Krassis - Bank 1 Right, Boba Straight 2

"3" - Well, The biggest edge that we have is whisper - unlike echo with his never-to-be-sufficiently-damned banked decloak, whisper can't decloak backwards of her current position, and can't come about more than 90' without invoking a K-turn, which (for obvious stress-related reasons, Phantoms are loath to do).

Our best pilot is pointing in the right direction, and we have a second pilot in the vicinity. Therefore, the goal for the turn is to try and lay as many arcs of fire as possible across whisper's potential decloaking points. She probably won't decloack forwards, for the same reasons mentioned above. - she'll struggle to get a shot, plus it leaves her very close to asteroids but on the wrong side. So she can decloak left or right....and then manouvre. But what's she going to try and do?

Echo is at the wrong end of the board, and for once, his special ability is boomeranging. He'd really like to decloak straight and probably come in on Boba Fett's flank, but he can't. Decloaking forward and right probably hits the asteroid or at least comes close enough that it'll mess with his manouvring, so forward and left is likely. Which means either a right bank or right turn to get him pointed back at the correct bit of the board. I'd guess he'll end up somewhere behind where Boba is now. He's not going to be anywhere where Krassis can do much to him, so we'll have to ignore him for now.

Best bet is a slow manouvre for Krassis. That parks him neatly in the way of a forward decloak, and means his lethal forward arc covers as much as possible of Whisper's potential movement if she decloaks right. Which should encourage her to decloak left, so Boba wants to go that way. The problem is that any short manouvre risks running into her and denying Boba a shot. So I'd hit the gas and go straight-4, and hope to catch her in the rear guns.

Boba - Straight 4, Krassis -Straight 1

Seems like I always misjudge distance as you zoom in and out, but what about a 1 right bank for Krassis, which looks like it could just block the edge of the forward de-cloak and then pull a left 2 turn in behind him (which might not fit) with Boba so that if Whisper de-cloaks to the right you've got a PS10 shot at her, and maybe one from Krassis if you're lucky. If Whisper just goes straight without de-cloaking and clears Krassis then Boba bumps her, probably doesn't unless Echo flies aggressively, and you have rear-arc shots on the inevitable AP k-turn. Then for the next turn Echo's got to approach overlapping fields of fire that are just far forward enough that they'd be hard to flank.

Best bet is a slow manouvre for Krassis. That parks him neatly in the way of a forward decloak, and means his lethal forward arc covers as much as possible of Whisper's potential movement if she decloaks right. Which should encourage her to decloak left, so Boba wants to go that way. The problem is that any short manouvre risks running into her and denying Boba a shot. So I'd hit the gas and go straight-4, and hope to catch her in the rear guns.

Boba - Straight 4, Krassis -Straight 1

It's hard for me to gauge the distances without really seeing it for real (if that's Vassal, I'm not used to it). I was thinking Boba would be fine to go 1 left, but I did have to think about it. If he can't, then I agree with your option.