A scan is online I was told (a friend of mine had it on his tablet and said he'd gotten it off the web as a pdf)

In this day and age everything is available online. But one shouldnt support piracy and its probebly frowned upon to encourage it on a companys own forums. For many it might not be that they couldnt find the adventure somewhere shady if they really tried, its that they want to convince FFG to be kind enough to give it to them.

I do doubt we will see this anytime soon though considering the details of its distribution, but one can allways hope. My town doesnt have a gaming store and very few places I know of in Sweden actually run any sort of official rpg events so I allways feel a bit left out when I hear about awesome events being hosted across the pond.

A <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> as a pdf)

To be clear, you mean he stole it, right?

A scan is online I was told (a friend of mine had it on his tablet and said he'd gotten it off the web as a pdf)

To be clear, you mean he stole it, right?

Yup

A <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> as a pdf)

To be clear, you mean he stole it, right?

Yup

To be clear, you know that's illegal, immoral, and probably not something you should post about on the victim's forum, right?

Starco, the right thing to do at this point would be to go edit your post and thus remove any suggestion to others of committing a crime. Accessory.

A scan is online I was told (a friend of mine had it on his tablet and said he'd gotten it off the web as a pdf)

To be clear, you mean he stole it, right?

Yup

To be clear, you know that's illegal, immoral, and probably not something you should post about on the victim's forum, right?

Starco, the right thing to do at this point would be to go edit your post and thus remove any suggestion to others of committing a crime. Accessory.

Oh good grief, hyperbole much? You have no proof that he was an accessory or even that his friend actually has the PDF downloaded. You have a random forum post.

Oh good grief, hyperbole much? You have no proof that he was an accessory or even that his friend actually has the PDF downloaded. You have a random forum post.

He actually STATED his friend downloaded the PDF. Then he actually STATED he knew it was a crime. Those words didn't type themselves. That being said, you only need "proof" when you are trying to develop probable cause to arrest someone. Who was doing that? I was trying to get the person to remove his post since he was actually encouraging others to commit theft (yes, that's what piracy is) on what would be the victim's own forum.

Since you brought it up, yes, actually, if someone DID go commit such theft after reading his post the he WOULD be guilty of theft by conspiracy or theft as an accessory in most (all?) states in the US (I have no idea where he is from). No one would actually pursue that charge, but it doesn't make it not true.

I guess I should have just reported his post instead of trying to get him to do the right thing and getting crap for doing so? Sorry perhaps I'm old having grown up pre-internet, but piracy is still theft and immoral to me.

I don't think that copywrite infringement is precisely the same crime as theft. Piracy (the non-maritime modern usage) is copywrite infringement, not theft.

I don't think that copywrite infringement is precisely the same crime as theft. Piracy (the non-maritime modern usage) is copywrite infringement, not theft.

Agreed. I was wrong in using "theft" as an exact statute name, but it's still a general term used to describe "theft" of copywrited material. I orginally was using it that way and mistakenly kept using "theft" when I started talking about actual laws.

I apologize to all of the people eagerly awaiting Rescue at Glare Peak release announcements only to look in here to see it's only more ranting by Sturn.

I'm sure that nobody here has ever watched a TV show or movie from a torrent, certainly

I'm sure that nobody here has ever watched a TV show or movie from a torrent, certainly

I haven't. I of course wouldn't be surprised that others here have. I doubt though that anyone will watch Episode VII on a torrent then go talk about how to do so at Disney's forum.

For what it's worth Sturn, i agree with you and your stance on this. At the end of the day, it's stealing, just the same as tucking physical items in a store under your coat and walking out with them.

I'm sure that nobody here has ever watched a TV show or movie from a torrent, certainly

Whether one has or hasn't, it's still rather crass to go onto that company's own message boards and proudly admit that you or a friend as stolen said company's merchandise.

I don't think that copywrite infringement is precisely the same crime as theft. Piracy (the non-maritime modern usage) is copywrite infringement, not theft.

Correct. And claiming another forum member is an accessory to a crime based on a forum post is...ludicrous. Knowledge of a potential crime is not the same as complicity or aiding in it.

Donovan, stealing involves depriving the rightful owner of their property. If it's stolen, the rightful owner does not have possession /control over it. This does not occur with copyright infringement because a copy being made does not deprive the holder of the original of his/her property, it instead makes an unauthorized copy that does not alter/harm the original nor take possession of the original. These are important differences.

I see it thusly:

Can I buy it? No - well, at least not first hand. A downloaded copy off the intertubes copy will not harm FFG financially. Yes, technically it is copy-written and very much FFG's property, but the item was given away freely, and at the end of the day they're not out anything - unlike say, downloading a copy of the core rules.

Which is why I wound up with a PDF copy of the KotOR sourcebook and no guilt. 100+ bucks is ridiculous for an out of print book from a dead system. WotC isnt out the 30-40 bucks that I be spending. The only ones I'm harming are the scalpers on Ebay and Amazon.

And claiming another forum member is an accessory to a crime based on a forum post is...ludicrous. Knowledge of a potential crime is not the same as complicity or aiding in it.

He obviously wasn't JUST saying he had knowledge of a crime. It was a pretty obvious pointer about how you could go get something that the intellectual property owner did not yet want us to have (or this thread wouldn't exist).

Now I will move along.

And claiming another forum member is an accessory to a crime based on a forum post is...ludicrous. Knowledge of a potential crime is not the same as complicity or aiding in it.

He obviously wasn't JUST saying he had knowledge of a crime. It was a pretty obvious pointer about how you could go get something that the intellectual property owner did not yet want us to have (or this thread wouldn't exist).

Now I will move along.

I will refer you to HappyDaze's post above.

Note that I never said that copyright infringement isn't a crime, I just pointed out that it's not the same crime as theft.

Note that I never said that copyright infringement isn't a crime, I just pointed out that it's not the same crime as theft.

I know. But there are a lot of other facts that Sturn either overlooked or ignored.

• Copyright infringement and theft are not the same thing.
• The product was available for free, ergo the person in question did not cause any direct financial harm to FFG.
• Knowledge of an occurrence of potential crime is not even close to the same thing as being an accessory to it (i.e. aiding and abetting). Any 1L law student knows that.
• The only proof of the alleged crime is second-hand information from a poster about an individual who remains anonymous to everyone. That means there is no proof.
• Sturn is being ridiculously melodramatic and needs to be rebuffed.

Your recent responses show that you haven't read half of what I've said or are ignoring it purposely. Please take your own advice and end this.

This product was never released "for free" - the stores that hosted the events had to pay for the materials.

Your recent responses show that you haven't read half of what I've said or are ignoring it purposely. Please take your own advice and end this.

You should apologize to the other user. You don't get a free pass for being a keyboard "hero" and wantonly accusing someone of aiding and abetting criminal activity with zero evidence. I realize you get to hide behind your nickname and avatar because this is the internet, but that's ridiculous of you at the highest level.

To HappyDaze: I stand corrected on that one point, but the larger issue concerning the charge that Sturn leveled stands.

I hope FFG do release it and once they do, it will all cease to be an issue. I may know someone who has all the Star Wars FFG RPG stuff on his iPad as PDFs...I also know that he owns all the hard copies of the books and as I understand it carrying all those books around can be VERY heavy, I'm not surprised he got a PDF. To me that is an acceptable use, you've paid the toll and found a more convenient way to transport the books. Had he not paid for the books...then it would be an issue for me.

Piracy is bad, support the companies.

@DavenQuint

Sturn only said it is not ethical, he never said he was planning to bring charges against the user. And bashing Sturn is most certainly not necessary.

Right, lets try to get back on topic now.

One thing Ive been curious about is if theres anything in the adventure that hasnt appeared in any other book? Im talking stats-wise here, enemies, vehicles, droids, ships and such. From what Ive understood from reading about it online it has some pregenerated characters that could be useful for some people and it has been mentioned that there are no stats for Vader. I wouldnt have minded having stats for Vader, mostly because in previous editions of Star Wars games Ive used stats for known characters to gauge the powerlevels of my own NPC´s and just enjoyed reading them to see someones take on them. Also Ive read that there are maps in the package but not sure how big they are or if they could be used for other places and situations.

Another adventure would be nice to have in the old bag of tricks, but Im just curious if theres anything else we are missing out on.

Another adventure would be nice to have in the old bag of tricks, but Im just curious if theres anything else we are missing out on.

This explains the desire for me. I have every book so far. EXCEPT THIS ONE!