Finally got my game last night. Played the introduction quest tonight against three heroes. It seemed to me that they never stood a chance. So is this because of its the introductions? Or because it was only against three hereos? I know I read on this forum that

• 2 heroes = advantage OL
• 3 heroes = advantage Heroes
• 4 heroes = most balanced

So this is what happened. Heroes went disciple, knight, and Runemaster. First the knight and disciple used move actions to get in front of the goblin archers (was one space between them).

The runemaster went to the search token. Then I went with the archers, attacking 2 against the knight and 2 against the disciple, instead of moving. I moved up the Ettin and attacked the knight. The heroes decided to back away out of the 4 way in the hall toward the map piece with the water, just enough to block the goblins from escaping. So I decided to move my goblins, the heroes got pissed because the goblins could not be blocked due to scamper. The start saying the game is over no point in playing because the rules are broken. I convince them to continue saying they need to kill the ettin, Mauler, to win so that is what they should be trying to do.

I am not going to continue with a play by play but I will post some things that happened so you can see why I think the OL has the advantage. I basically attacked instead of trying to escape with the goblin archers. The heroes were rolling blue + red on attacks with the mage and the disciple, both had starting equipment and I think they were suppose to be rolling yellow instead of the red however, I did not say anything. eventually they got my goblins down to only 1 on the board, yes I did remember to do the reinforcements. I then started trying to escape with my goblins. I played dash so that my goblin could move 15 spaces instead of 10 in his turn. That was the only card I played during the entire encounter. I had 11 or 12 cards in my hand at the end.

So yes I know we made mistakes, a lot of them in the heroes favor and they did win, but I still got 3 tokens out of the 5 that I needed to win. So was I doing something completely wrong, or can some other explain why this felt like without trying, I only played one overlord card the entire time, let the runemaster & disciple roll blue + red on attacks, and attacking every turn with the goblins instead of just using scamper to escape every round. Please help as I feel the heroes had a good arguement even though I told them to win they needed to kill Mauler, and I moved him to the hallway so they could attack him. I am pretty sure if I did not do that I could of won without playing any OL cards.

Edit: I forgot to mention I basically attacked the knight all the time knocking him out every round for like 4 rounds in a row. The player said, "the knight quits his life and refuses to play anymore". I know it would of been a better tactic to attack the disciple as she was using one of her actions to revive or whatever its called on the knight so the knight could do 2 attacks to Mauler every round and I eventually switched to that. By then Mauler only had 4 health left and they finished him in two more rounds.

I've never seen the OL win first blood. I've seen him get close, but the heroes always seem to win the introduction. It's possible that either there is a rule that's being overlooked, or your heroes played much too hesitantly. For example, when you moved Mauler up, they backed away. They should have just railed on him.

They backed away thinking they could block the exit from the goblins. The did not know about scamper and said its over powered. I tried to explain just go kill the 2-headed monster and you win. Pretty sure if all three were attacking Mauler he would die before I could get 5 goblins to escape.

I've won first blood against newbies, but never against good players. Remember, all of the players are allowed to look at the abilities of the monsters you are using, and should have known they couldn't block before they tried it.

The heroes should win with 3 heroes, they should have just gone for the Mauler. With 4 Heroes the second Ettin can be used to block the Hero's access to take the Mauler down so it evens it out for the OL even more so.

When you look back over the game, the Hero's didn't make the best choices. Put it down to experience and learning, what the Introduction is designed to do. Like all games you have to learn what the monsters can do and what advantage their abilities/ stats can do on the quest. Not knowing about Scamper ultimately lost them the quest.

I've won first blood against newbies, but never against good players. Remember, all of the players are allowed to look at the abilities of the monsters you are using, and should have known they couldn't block before they tried it.

I did not recall reading that the players can look at the monster cards. If this is the case I'll be sure to show them the cards from now on. Any chance you have a rulebook page for that information so I can highlight it.

I plan on Highlighting the rules to type out and print up so the heroes can look at them. I am hoping to get a sheet with combat, line of sight, and other rules that get asked about/are easily confused/forgotten to help them while playing.

I also plan on making one for the Overlord. Unless of course someone has already done something like this?

I mean, it sounds like you were all new players, you all made some mistakes, and some of those mistakes determined who won the game. Frankly, I don't think it makes any sense for either side to assume ANYTHING about the game's balance at this point.

Luckily, First Blood is designed so that it doesn't really matter who wins. You can play it again with the right rules - it's really quick - or just go on with the campaign. It'll be a few adventures - maybe an entire campaign - before you really feel like you've got the rules 100%, or close. But don't make any balance assumptions with only the data you have so far.

I've won first blood against newbies, but never against good players. Remember, all of the players are allowed to look at the abilities of the monsters you are using, and should have known they couldn't block before they tried it.

I did not recall reading that the players can look at the monster cards. If this is the case I'll be sure to show them the cards from now on. Any chance you have a rulebook page for that information so I can highlight it.

I plan on Highlighting the rules to type out and print up so the heroes can look at them. I am hoping to get a sheet with combat, line of sight, and other rules that get asked about/are easily confused/forgotten to help them while playing.

I also plan on making one for the Overlord. Unless of course someone has already done something like this?

Basically, unless stated otherwise (which is very rare), everything in this game is public knowledge.

You (as OL) should be able to see and read the Hero's abilities, Heroic Feats, skill cards, etc., and re-read them whenever you want.

They (as Heroes) should be able to see all of your monster cards reflecting monster's in play. The one thing they do not get to see is your OL hand from the deck of cards you are playing (there are exceptions where Heroes have abilities or skills to periodically see the hand).

Both of you get to read the entire quest/encounter, know what the win goals are, what the prizes are, etc.

And all of this public knowledge is available at any time. It's not just read it once and you have to remember ... anyone can read anything at any time.

You get the idea.

EDIT: One more point. Make sure you have read, and made available to everyone, the latest FAQ for the game, as there are many quest/encounter changes to balance things, rules clarifications, etc.

Base Game Quest Guide, Page 2, "Public Information" box, top right corner.

"The quests are all written with the assumption that all players know all the rules and victory conditions - in short, unless noted, none of the information is secret."

There have been several conversations about house-ruling how much the hero players can see, but the official rule is that, unless specifically stated otherwise, all players can and should read everything before play begins. This includes the rule book, all cards, the quest guide, etc. The players can and should even read all of the Overlord and plot cards (if using a plot deck) before play begins.

However, during a quest, the Overlord deck is not viewable and only the Overlord may view the Overlord hand, unless some ability allows otherwise. Also, during a campaign, when the overlord receives rewards or purchases new cards, all players can and should read the cards before they are played or shuffled into the Overlord deck.

Further, with the exception of the Overlord deck and Overlord hand during a quest, unless specifically stated otherwise, everything is reviewable by any player (hero or Overlord) at any time.

Basically, the heroes should have known about scamper from the get go. And, it can be implied that the Overlord has the responsibility of full disclosure, to make sure everyone knows everything they need to know before play begins.

But it was your first game, so no biggie.

The disclosure rules are one of the ways in which Descent 2E is different from Descent 1E. And some argue that this alone changes Descent from a true fantasy dungeon delve (1E), into more of a fantasy tactical skirmish/light RPG (2E).

(Incoming shameless self-promotion)

After you are more familiar with the base rules, if you want a more traditional dungeon delve experience that is more like Descent 1E, try my Legendary Play Variant Rules .

Also, a player's base attack pool is determined by their weapon (hero) or monster card (Overlord). The Runemaster's starting rune, and the Disciple's starting mace, both indicate a blue and a yellow die. So, your players were mistaken if they were all rolling a blue and a red .

And yes, you should say something.

Also, a player's base attack pool is determined by their weapon (hero) or monster card (Overlord). The Runemaster's starting rune, and the Disciple's starting mace, both indicate a blue and a yellow die. So, your players were mistaken if they were all rolling a blue and a red .

And yes, you should say something.

I figured they were crying about how over powered the OL was so I did not bother. Next time I will say something and if they have issues with it then I'll know not to invite them to play again.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and tips. I will be sure to use them from now on.

I really think the heroes have the ultimate advantage in a 3 player game.

The reason is that large monsters, when you have 3 heroes, only have a single master monster. The difference between this and a master/minion with 4 players is tremendous.

First Blood with 3 players can sometimes be won in the first move!

I agree as well, heroes have a huge advantage in a 3 player game.

Mind you, they start weak but once they get the gear, gold and new abilities, you can get steam rolled very fast.

In our current campaign of LoR I lost the intro but destroyed the heroes in two Act 1 quests. I almost got the sun stone back but failed to meet the conditions at the last minute. Everything after that has been in the player's advantage. When the healer can one shot most large monsters at range, it is not fun for the OL.