Okay, we've got the "if you're building your own personal weapon, knock a couple of purples off" ruling - but what do you guys figure the difficulty for building a saber from scratch is? Assume a mentor and good schematics to work from, a decent workshop and loads of time. However, let us also assume a first time builder.
Figure a base of 3 Purples, a black for inexperience and a blue for having good reference material to work from? That sound reasonable?
No check required because the exciting climax of the story was securing the crystal. You finish the saber during the denouement, and that, of course, is when the real threat appears...
If I recall correctly, previous editions had you make a force check to align the Crystal and so on. I don't think that pure mechanical skill is required to build one. If anything, I'd require a check with Force Rating upon completion similar to how force powers operate, after a mechanical check.
Also since it's inherently dangerous, I'd have it risk explosion upon failure. I am fairly certain that was a thing too.
Also since it's inherently dangerous, I'd have it risk explosion upon failure. I am fairly certain that was a thing too.
One theme I'm noticing is that a lot of people (not pointing fingers) have yet to learn that mechanics do not make the game. The narrative consequences of failing to build your lightsaber are essentially "try again later". It's not thematically interesting.
Also since it's inherently dangerous, I'd have it risk explosion upon failure. I am fairly certain that was a thing too.
The only time I ever recall the construction being dangerous was when Tenel Ka decided to use shoddy (presumably non-Kyber) crystals to build hers, and even that didn't make the actual process of putting it together problematic. In fact, considering that the vast majority of saber-wielders are unlikely to be mechanically inclined it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a check. Corran Horn describes it as being rather easy with the only real difficulty being in customizing the hilt.
The CGI Clone Wars show had an episode or two about the general process padawans go through to get a crystal and build a lightsaber. I vaguely recall that one of the padawans had flipped one of the pieces the other way around which caused an explosion that destroyed the hilt (though left the crystal intact). Explosion didn't kill anybody, even the person holding it, but still nothing you'd want to mess with.
That said, I'd suggest avoiding a check entirely. But that if you really want to block players from building one, to just require that they get proper instructions from somewhere first, and any attempts beforehand results in the hilt exploding into a puff of Stun Damage to everyone in engaged range.
Also since it's inherently dangerous, I'd have it risk explosion upon failure. I am fairly certain that was a thing too.
The only time I ever recall the construction being dangerous was when Tenel Ka decided to use shoddy (presumably non-Kyber) crystals to build hers, and even that didn't make the actual process of putting it together problematic. In fact, considering that the vast majority of saber-wielders are unlikely to be mechanically inclined it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a check. Corran Horn describes it as being rather easy with the only real difficulty being in customizing the hilt.
The CGI Clone Wars show had an episode or two about the general process padawans go through to get a crystal and build a lightsaber. I vaguely recall that one of the padawans had flipped one of the pieces the other way around which caused an explosion that destroyed the hilt (though left the crystal intact). Explosion didn't kill anybody, even the person holding it, but still nothing you'd want to mess with.
That said, I'd suggest avoiding a check entirely. But that if you really want to block players from building one, to just require that they get proper instructions from somewhere first, and any attempts beforehand results in the hilt exploding into a puff of Stun Damage to everyone in engaged range.
No the saber building instructor droid told the rushing padawan his mistake and made him start over. It supposedly would have killed him. But really what is the point in making the jedi who just finished a quest to get the crystal roll to put it together?
No the saber building instructor droid told the rushing padawan his mistake and made him start over. It supposedly would have killed him.
Later in the episode he flips the part around on purpose to mess with the people attacking the ship - it explodes and stuns them.
I'd also have no check at all. I just don't see the result of failure being very fun or interesting for the player. I was thinking maybe if there was a time constraint? But even then if they fail it'd still be pretty lame for the player:
"Hurry, Bastila! Construct your lightsaber before the commandos break into the room!.... You failed, but they're still coming to kill you. Better go grab that broom instead."
As long as the situation allowed it I'd instead throw something nasty at them right after, for them to use the lightsaber against. It's more heroic that way, but it still has some form of danger involved.
The only time I ever recall the construction being dangerous was when Tenel Ka decided to use shoddy (presumably non-Kyber) crystals to build hers, and even that didn't make the actual process of putting it together problematic. In fact, considering that the vast majority of saber-wielders are unlikely to be mechanically inclined it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a check. Corran Horn describes it as being rather easy with the only real difficulty being in customizing the hilt.One theme I'm noticing is that a lot of people (not pointing fingers) have yet to learn that mechanics do not make the game. The narrative consequences of failing to build your lightsaber are essentially "try again later". It's not thematically interesting.Also since it's inherently dangerous, I'd have it risk explosion upon failure. I am fairly certain that was a thing too.
And I think failure is an important narrative tool, in games at least. The young Jedi who rushes to build his saber before he was ready to should possibly be met with at least the possibility of failure. Otherwise, beyond acquiring the materials, what was stopping him before?
Maybe call me crazy, but I took stories like Corran Horns as that the parts for a saber were relatively easy to find or make the parts(I do hope that they have rules for constructing a crystal) and put one together... but reaching that plateau of self-achievement where simply constructing a saber is "easy" was the journey, the accomplishment is the reward.
If you wanna just make it an automatic success if you have X skill ranks ans X force Rating that's one thing. But I think that's a big component just to have those requirements.
Okay, we've got the "if you're building your own personal weapon, knock a couple of purples off" ruling - but what do you guys figure the difficulty for building a saber from scratch is? Assume a mentor and good schematics to work from, a decent workshop and loads of time. However, let us also assume a first time builder.
Figure a base of 3 Purples, a black for inexperience and a blue for having good reference material to work from? That sound reasonable?
This is actually addressed in the "Lightsaber Hilts" sidebar on page 125 of FaD Beta.
In short, the PC would simply acquire the "parts" for the type of hilt they want to use the same as a PC wanting to purchase any other item after character creation, with no separate check required to assemble the parts, including the addition of a lightsaber focusing crystal (otherwise it's just a hilt and not really viable as a weapon).
So a basic lightsaber hilt (Rarity 5) would require an Average (DD) Negotiation check to get all the various parts as a baseline, though it'd be a bit harder if trying to get the parts on a non-civilized Mid Rim or Outer Rim world, but those same parts would be a piece of cake to acquire if you're on a major Core World.
Edited by Donovan Morningfire"Hurry, Bastila! Construct your lightsaber before the commandos break into the room!.... You failed, but they're still coming to kill you. Better go grab that broom instead."
SUPPLIES!
hmmm, now that's a mess load of threats
I might force the Jedi to make a roll if he were locked in a closet and had only 15 minutes to build his saber and break out before Lord Badness uses his Secret Battle Squadron to eliminate all life on Planet Pluto.
Or some other more probable situation where equipment and/or time is very limited.
Edited by Split LightI'm such a fan of the no roll. I hated how big a deal d20 made of this. The only roll I would assign for this would be the Negotiation rolls to get the parts, or perhaps an equivalent Discipline roll for making your own crystal using an upgraded Move power (since you need to shape the crystal's growth). That's it. No one else makes crazy rolls to acquire or use their gear, so I'm glad that Force users aren't different.
Well, with d20 the reason a roll was required was that a personally-constructed lightsaber provided a +1 bonus to attack rolls, which in said system was a fairly big deal, particularly as there were no magic items.
Unless there's a rush to build a 'saber in a hurry, I'd say stick with the "no roll to assemble necessary" bit in the Lightsaber Hilt sidebar.
Here's what I've done in a campaign that predates F&D.
The Force Sensitive PC got a mentor and a training saber. No crystal and no parts to build their own.
*****[F&D adventure spoiler]
They will have an opportunity to use that hilt and add a crystal from the F&D adventure.
In the Beta update there is language about it being much easier to mod your "own" saber. By "own" I'm interpreting that as "one you built" in addition to "the one you use" but that's not RAW.
Obviously the PC will want to build their own hilt. That will take time. Per the rules finding the parts for a basic hilt is an Average Negotiation check and can change depending on the rarity mod based on localition.
I'll probably upgrade the Negotiation check. A Despair and the wrong people notice you are buying parts that can potentially construct a LS. A failure and, well, try another place.
Once they have the parts constructing the hilt will
not
be a roll.
So in effect it's a matter of time, credits, and risk of attracting the wrong attention, but it will happen.
I'll probably upgrade the Negotiation check. A Despair and the wrong people notice you are buying parts that can potentially construct a LS. A failure and, well, try another place.
Once they have the parts constructing the hilt will not be a roll.
So in effect it's a matter of time, credits, and risk of attracting the wrong attention, but it will happen.
That's a good idea. Like buying the components to make a homemade explosive or certain bathtub narcotics, you could look quite suspicious while shopping for all of the right parts needed build a lightsaber. I probably wouldn't upgrade the check per se, but I might use a Destiny point or narrate the roll as you mentioned, just to mess with the player.
I'll probably upgrade the Negotiation check. A Despair and the wrong people notice you are buying parts that can potentially construct a LS. A failure and, well, try another place.
Once they have the parts constructing the hilt will not be a roll.
So in effect it's a matter of time, credits, and risk of attracting the wrong attention, but it will happen.
That's a good idea. Like buying the components to make a homemade explosive or certain bathtub narcotics, you could look quite suspicious while shopping for all of the right parts needed build a lightsaber. I probably wouldn't upgrade the check per se, but I might use a Destiny point or narrate the roll as you mentioned, just to mess with the player.
Yep. Exactly what I was thinking about how states monitor OTC drugs that can be ingredients for more illicit products. Seems like the Empire would have an eye on that.
I should have said the upgrade is with a Destiny Point flip. I wouldn't upgrade without that. I make my players sweat finding and modding equipment. I even DP upgrade the occasional mod check. They still end up with crazy toys...that I can sunder (mwahahaha).