I'm planning on participating in X-Wing World Championships, but unfortunately upon reading the tournament rules, I've come across a potential problem that might preclude me from using my B-wings.

From the X-Wing Tournament Rules:

My B-Wings have been reposed, rotated, like this. I modified my models prior to reading the rules because I hadn't planned on playing the game more than casually and thus normally I care more for ascetics than I do for the technicalities of official events. I already own 6 B-Wings (4 single ships + 2 from Aces) all re-positioned; so I'm not inclined to purchase anymore. While I could simply field a list without B-Wings, investigating the question before hand seems prudent. Does anyone happen to know if FFG has ruled that to be changing the shape of the model in the past?

Both answers seem equally possible in my mind and it comes down to the interpretation of the word "shape".

I'm not going to be upset in either way but I'd rather know in advance.

I have seen closed wing X-wings at tournaments before. The real problem is that it is modified so you will have to get a T.O.'s ruling on acceptance or not.

Being that it is worlds could pose a bit of a problem. It is the cream of the crop of events. You need to somehow get your B-wings cleared before going or else choose something else.

You could make two lists, one with B's, another without. Or you could borrow from mates for the number of B-wings you'll need. Another option is to contact FFG directly and ask for who is T.O.ing the Worlds event and pose the question to them.

I have no issue with it but I know there will be that one guy who doesn't know about the fly casual mantra and will point out a legal issue with your rotated B-wings and try to get you DQ'd.

I hope it works out for you.

Fly Casual.

A lot of people twist the B-Wings like that. I've got one that I did.

Technically, you're not altering the size or shape of the model. Your B-Wing is congruent with every other B-Wing ever made.

The orientation of the ship has been changed and the rules don't mention anything about altering the orientation. Your B-Wing is still clearly facing the forward arc of fire.

I would allow it.

What you should do is check with the TO before you play. If the TO disallows it, have a 'normal' back-up B-Wing that you can use.

I think the intention of the rule is to try and make sure their is absolutely no doubt as to what the model is. It would be the same as using X-Wings mounted on a ball/magnet to allow it to be posed banking. It's still an X-Wing at the end of the day, and your B-Wings haven't been changed from the standard B-Wing. If you front up for a game and you're opponent has to guess what a particular ship might be, then you've got a problem. If you somehow modified a Z-95 and split its wing apart and posed it like an X-Wing, that would be deemed an illegal ship.

Also to make sure no one tries to get wise and pass off micro machines as FFG minis or some such. Some of the ships are pretty close in size. I have a B-Wing that the back part of the stand broke where it meets the engine and I repositioned the cockpit and turned it sideways. I would image that as long as you are using the FFG mini you should be fine

As noted you'll need to check with the TO to verify their legality.

Now to me twisting it sideways does NOT alter the size or shape of the MODEL although it may move the peg. Although it may be relatively minor rotating the cockpit DOES alter the shape of the model ever so slightly; moving the peg to a different location also alters the actual model.

I don't think rotating it counts as changing the size or the shape. I don't think I've heard of anyone having any issue with a rotated B-wing (or rotated anything, for those that use magnetic flight stands). If you're really worried about it you can certainly check with the TO beforehand, but I really can't imagine it being an issue.

Yep, check with the TO. I have no doubt that there will be no issues.

Orientation of the model has changed, size and shape has not. Nobody will complain about it

Im pleased most people would not mind

I want to take my keyan, nera , dagger b wing list to my first tourny and its my local store so ill clear it first but i hate the sotck b wing pose, it just looks so static.

Mine look like this, all i've done on two is twist the post, pop off the cockpits and put them back on at the 'gravitic' angle.

My first b wing repostion (and part of the list) might be a problem though as i remounted the post hole under the wings

as in a post on the main forums, seems annoying is a thematic adjustment like this is 'illegal' but painting your Tie fighter in heloo kitty designs isnt

Also to make sure no one tries to get wise and pass off micro machines as FFG minis or some such. Some of the ships are pretty close in size. I have a B-Wing that the back part of the stand broke where it meets the engine and I repositioned the cockpit and turned it sideways. I would image that as long as you are using the FFG mini you should be fine

**** I can't use my old Wizards of the Coast Star Wars Starship collectible miniatures game that no one ever played. Why were you not a thing in 2007 I could have saved so much money.

Oh well but yeah good point, I would like to convert a B-wing to a closed S-foil mode and maybe the same for an X-wing but I don't want to cut my models up just yet. However from what I hear just rotating a model makes it tournament illegal so probably I just keep them the way they are for now.

Also to make sure no one tries to get wise and pass off micro machines as FFG minis or some such. Some of the ships are pretty close in size. I have a B-Wing that the back part of the stand broke where it meets the engine and I repositioned the cockpit and turned it sideways. I would image that as long as you are using the FFG mini you should be fine

**** I can't use my old Wizards of the Coast Star Wars Starship collectible miniatures game that no one ever played. Why were you not a thing in 2007 I could have saved so much money.

Oh well but yeah good point, I would like to convert a B-wing to a closed S-foil mode and maybe the same for an X-wing but I don't want to cut my models up just yet. However from what I hear just rotating a model makes it tournament illegal so probably I just keep them the way they are for now.

Where'd you hear that from?

Also, I've sent a message to FFG asking about it, hopefully they'll respond fairly quickly. Also asked about magnetizing ships to stands, because I'll be doing that soon too.

Will post answers here when they come.

My thoughts are that the 'no convesion' rule is a catch all to stop people making really wierd stuff like an eyeball with three interceptor wings glued to it... oh wait they've done that.

Seriously i think its as mentioned by others , its a blanket rule to allow a TO to ban something that might be confusing.

Say for example a chopped up hybrid of outrider, decimator and falcon that someone says 'oh its just a falcon' rules wise... its stil going to thrown you off.

You'd have to be a real jerk to stop someone from playing with a model that wasnt square on its base peg and was on a magnet... likewise if someone asked me not to field those b wings, i'd try and borrow three 'normal' ones for a game and give the guy a withering look and find it hard to take him seriously for the game.

I can understand stuff that confuses what it is supposed to be, stuff on the wrong size base and even to a degree i can *partly* understand a reluctance to allow closed foil xwings because of the z95 simularity but i think the latter is really not an issue either.

I can understand that you aren't allowed to alter the base. And I can understand why you can't have a seriously modified ship model. But it would be a pretty naff TO that would rule repositioned B-wings illegal for a tournament. I think even a B-wing or X-wing with the S-foils closed would be a bit of a marginal ruling.

I agree. Fluff -wise, that's what B- and X-wings did, and it'd be silly to not allow them. Now, it makes less sense fo have their S-foils closed, of course, because they need to shoot things, but it's still a cool mod to see.

Yeah, know the S-foils would be opened at the first sign of a fight, but I do remember seeing someone here had modified some to be able to open and close. They were pretty darned cool, alright!

Yeah, know the S-foils would be opened at the first sign of a fight, but I do remember seeing someone here had modified some to be able to open and close. They were pretty darned cool, alright!

I saw those! **** impressive.

I can understand that you aren't allowed to alter the base. And I can understand why you can't have a seriously modified ship model. But it would be a pretty naff TO that would rule repositioned B-wings illegal for a tournament. I think even a B-wing or X-wing with the S-foils closed would be a bit of a marginal ruling.

I can kind of see it with the X-wing though, it'd make them harder to distinguish from Z-95s. Still wish they were clearer on what they meant in the rules. I've sent them a rules question regarding my B's but so far, no response.

Yeah, know the S-foils would be opened at the first sign of a fight, but I do remember seeing someone here had modified some to be able to open and close. They were pretty darned cool, alright!

I saw those! **** impressive.

I think it was Millenium Falsehood that did up that one.

I believe this is a Hypothetical Bad Guy discussion.

Has anyone ever even heard a rumor or internet urban legend about a TO disqualifying a B-wing because it was rotated? I haven't. Honestly, I don't even think we've had a hypothetical discussion where someone said they would even consider it.

The only thing in this thread I'd consider even the slightest bit questionable would be the closed S-foils on an X-wing, because as was pointed out it does get pretty close to a Z-95 at that point.

But as far as the B-wings are concerned, we really shouldn't be, and we should stop inventing internet boogeymen until we actually hear of someone having some issue with it.

I believe this is a Hypothetical Bad Guy discussion.

Has anyone ever even heard a rumor or internet urban legend about a TO disqualifying a B-wing because it was rotated? I haven't. Honestly, I don't even think we've had a hypothetical discussion where someone said they would even consider it.

The only thing in this thread I'd consider even the slightest bit questionable would be the closed S-foils on an X-wing, because as was pointed out it does get pretty close to a Z-95 at that point.

But as far as the B-wings are concerned, we really shouldn't be, and we should stop inventing internet boogeymen until we actually hear of someone having some issue with it.

I started this thread only because I paid $40 dollars to participate in Worlds and as such I felt it would be prudent to protect that investment by being thoroughly prepared.

There's a saying: "The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask" so I asked rather than taking the risk of regretting that I hadn't 3 weeks from now.

I believe this is a Hypothetical Bad Guy discussion.

Has anyone ever even heard a rumor or internet urban legend about a TO disqualifying a B-wing because it was rotated? I haven't. Honestly, I don't even think we've had a hypothetical discussion where someone said they would even consider it.

The only thing in this thread I'd consider even the slightest bit questionable would be the closed S-foils on an X-wing, because as was pointed out it does get pretty close to a Z-95 at that point.

But as far as the B-wings are concerned, we really shouldn't be, and we should stop inventing internet boogeymen until we actually hear of someone having some issue with it.

Definitely. My regular TO actually thought the rotation was awesome. The guy I was playing against at the time was so fond of it, he proceeded to immediately do it to one of his B's.

Definitely. My regular TO actually thought the rotation was awesome. The guy I was playing against at the time was so fond of it, he proceeded to immediately do it to one of his B's.

I'm sorry but I have to ask... By immediately do you mean in mid-tournament or even... mid-game?

Because that would be awesome and hilarious. Hilariously awesome.

LOL!

I can just see that. "It's my turn, so I'll move my B-wing forward, then for my action, I'm gonna rip the model off the stand and glue a magnet on. Have you got five minutes while the glue dries?"

Ha. As we were setting up, he twisted his B-wing a bit. No glue or anything, just force. That's how I did mine. Magnetization coming this week!