A funny thing I've noticed is that Psionic Wand (Dragon exp) had the same ability as the Leywalker, but it's a Weapon and normally you don't use other Weapons together. The Warrior and Dervish are the only ones who could, but they don't need it; they could have raised the question when in psychic combat with Exorcist's Blade and another Weapon used in psychic combat. Nevertheless, nobody ever asked if he could first calculate the total Craft derived from Objects/Followers and then add also Strength derived from Objects/Followers.

I think people would have agreed on Rigmaster's interpretation of "Craft value, Craft counters, and general Craft boosts=Strength, plus combat boosts to "Strength in battle", only in reverse, naturally. At least I hope so, as I feel it is the simplest and most natural explanation, that allows players to utilise the greatest number of boosts, which I think most players of Talisman find fun. After all, a big part of Talisman is collecting an enormous arsenal of modifiers!

I'd say sure..

Rulebook p.10 - Battle

The character’s attack score is

the attack roll plus the character’s Strength , plus any

other modifiers that may apply. Remember that only

one Weapon may be used at a time...

You'll be switching Strength for craft but other modifiers are just fine.

...

I still have a hard time accepting that the Magic Belt (+1 Strength) and Maiden (+2 Craft) would combine to provide +3 Craft when I'm asked to use my Craft instead of Strength.

Since Craft = Craft value + Craft counters (blue cones) + Craft modifiers [gained from Followers, Magic Objects, and Objects] (e.g. Maiden).

...

You can't combine Magic Belt and Maiden to provide craft 3. The Magic Belt is not a modifier .

p.4

A character’s Strength at any time is the character’s Strength

value, plus Strength counters, plus any Strength gained from

Followers, Magic Objects, and Objects that may be used at

that time.

Modifiers are only mentioned on p.10 (Battle) in context with Weapons . Since there's no better definition I'd say this is everything except what is listed on p.4 (ex: weapons and other things that only adds in battle/psychic combat)

In conclusion for the Leywalker in battle:

Strength + Modifyers + Attack roll =Attack score [Edit: <-- I wrote that wrong before]

If it uses its ability Strength will be substituted for craft (value + counters + objects + followers, not weapons etc).

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I thought a "modifier" is any addition to Strength or Craft other than counters. (Making all "modifiers" immune to effects that cause you to lose Strength or Craft.)

To use your quote from the rulebook - value, counters, modifiers combine to make the stat:

A character’s Strength at any time is the character’s Strength value , plus Strength counters , plus any Strength gained from Followers, Magic Objects, and Objects [ modifiers ] that may be used at that time.

However, to be fair, my explanation is a moot point. If we are all in agreement that the intention of the Sword and weapons in general is to say, "Add X to your attack score during battle/psychic combat," then regardless of what constitutes a "modifier," the Leywalker can still use it.

I see your point Artaterxes but I think it's you who are inserting the word Modifier where it is not written.

p4 yields:

Strength = Strength value + Strength counters + "Strength gained from Followers, Magic Objects, and Objects"

The last part is not named Modifiers. It would be really weird if it was since Modifiers are to be added to Strength in battle. If that part was Modifiers it would be added twice, both to give your Strength and then again together with Strength to give your Attack score.

I think we are losing sight of what this ability is intended to be. In a nutshell, if the Leywalker has more Craft Value+Craft Counters+Craft gained from Followers, Magic Objects and Objects that are non-situational in nature (ie; always on) than they do of Strength Value+Strength Counters+Strength gained from Followers, Magic Objects and Objects (including those that apply in Battle only), then they have the choice to discard the Spell and swap those totals.

This isn't about trying to shoehorn as many modifiers as possible on top of the ability to make it better, but using the ability when it makes sense to do so. If you run into the Miser Dragon with Strength 4 and a Sword, but a Craft of 9, then it situationally makes sense to switch your Craft for your Strength and spurn the +1 from the Sword. Trying to justify the use of a Weapon that clearly states "+X to Strength in Battle" when Strength is not being used at all is completely unnecessary. The special ability is what it is, situational.

The way I see it strength is being used. Because before the battle starts you may choose to use your special ability to use your craft as strength. So when the battle start your craft (craft value+additional cones+non psycic combat modifiers ie. Maiden, Holy grail etc.) IS your strength which makes it perfectly legal to use a sword in battle. The problem with the Leywalker is that it in your example and most likely almost all other battles it will make sense to use the ability.

I can understand your way of arguing but it doesn't make sense to me. Same as me and my gaming group is dead sure how the druids land on ability works (land on=visit), a theory that didn't get any support on the forum. More and more rules are becoming unclear as more expansions are released. And we'll probably never get an official statement on all of them. But as long as your group is in agreement I don't think there's a problem either way.

Is this still going?

Is this still going?

Well, no. We're just doing this for your entertainment.

Is this still going?

Well, no. We're just doing this for your entertainment.

Cool, can I have a monkey riding a bike while juggling .

Is this still going?

I think it's done now. Sanity summed it all up.

On 10/17/2014 at 3:33 PM, Rigmaster said:

I would say that you can use maiden since she's included in your base craft but not the magic belt since that's included in base strength (since this happens before the battle). You can however add the +1 from a sword which is used in battle only and comes in to play after you've decided to use your craft instead of strength and entered battle. That's how we play it. It's simplest and follows the wording of the card.

So would Psionic blast apply with a Leywalker's Strength replaced by Craft ?

I suppose it would not. You could cast the spell but it would have no effect if you had used the Leywalker's ability.

Can't cast a Spell if it has no effect Psionic Blast could not be cast, nor could you use a weapon...