This question is about the Leywalker's fifth ability, which says: When you are about to engage in battle, you may discard a Spell to use your Craft instead of your Strength during that battle.

My question is can weapons that normally add to your strength in battle (sword, axe etc.) still be used to add to your total? I do not think so, but would love to be wrong.

Yes, you can use weapons. Spending a spell replaces your Strength with Craft, all other modifiers (weapons, spells, etc) would still apply.

Edit; At least I think so, I could see an argument the other way that since you're using Craft instead of Strength weapons don't work because they add to Strength. This is a good candidate for an FAQ.

Balance-wise I think using weapons works out fine since the Leywalker is kind of weak otherwise.

I would say yes you can still use weapons, as the ability is only changes which stat you use and not changing it to psychic combat.

I would say yes you can still use weapons, as the ability is only changes which stat you use and not changing it to psychic combat.

That's a good point. It is still a battle and not a psychic combat, so anything that adds to a battle roll should still apply.

I'd say sure..

Rulebook p.10 - Battle
The character’s attack score is

the attack roll plus the character’s Strength , plus any
other modifiers that may apply. Remember that only
one Weapon may be used at a time...

You'll be switching Strength for craft but other modifiers are just fine.

I don't really see why this would need a faq entry..

not sure I follow...

The sword says, "Add 1 to your Strength during battle." If I'm using Craft instead of Strength, how can I use my sword? It adds to Strength, which isn't used in this battle. It doesn't say "add to your result in battle" (which in Talisman language would be "add 1 to your attack score"). It says add to Strength in battle...

Hm, you might have a point there.. I'm reasoning that you craft is your strength during that battle.

I think you are taking the rules to literary "using Craft instead of Strength in battle" should make your Craft Strength in battle while not being Strength. If you get my point stepping back second guesses rule wording is a major prob in Talisman but the meanings the same.

Yeah, I also went with the interpretation that Weapons, and in the case I'm about to describe, the Warhorse, and other combat boosts to "strength in battle" adds to the Leywalker's combat score in battle when discarding a spell to use Craft instead of Strength in battle. That's at least how I "allowed" my friend to beat a couple of dragons, by discarding a spell to use Craft in battle, then used Brainwave to go to Craft 10, and then finally add his bonus from the Warhorse to get to an effective "Strength" of 20, over the dragons' combined score of 15. That's pretty much the biggest jump in combat power I have seen a character get with a couple of spell and a Warhorse, by the way, and my friend would probably never have catched that combo on his own, but that's why I always go with "open" spells in the first game with noobs. The noobs always need help with the spells.

Hehehe Brainwave the use the Leywalkers ability thats cool but boosts like brainwave and the Strength one have always been good just good work with character abilities really.

Basically anything that adds to Craft is used instead of Strength, including Weapons. Therefore you cannot use the Warhorse, Psionic Blast or any Weapon that adds to your Strength, if you decide to use the ability!

Basically anything that adds to Craft is used instead of Strength, including Weapons. Therefore you cannot use the Warhorse, Psionic Blast or any Weapon that adds to your Strength, if you decide to use the ability!

Is that right "o" master of talisman .

Thank you for the replies! Drat, I was wanting to be wrong on this one. Oh well...

Basically anything that adds to Craft is used instead of Strength, including Weapons. Therefore you cannot use the Warhorse, Psionic Blast or any Weapon that adds to your Strength, if you decide to use the ability!

Hmm, not sure about including Weapons then. Weapons that add to Craft generally state "add X to your Craft in Psychic Combat". Since this concerns Battle, I think these Weapons are out. Only things that add to Craft without a condition would be applicable.

Sanity scrub my earlier answer. More to follow...

I'm totally lost... Which is nothing new

I'm totally lost... Which is nothing new

I think they're saying if something adds to Strength, it doesn't count, even weapons.

Yes, you can use weapons. Spending a spell replaces your Strength with Craft, all other modifiers (weapons, spells, etc) would still apply.

Edit; At least I think so, I could see an argument the other way that since you're using Craft instead of Strength weapons don't work because they add to Strength. This is a good candidate for an FAQ.

Balance-wise I think using weapons works out fine since the Leywalker is kind of weak otherwise.

We played this. It's the only possible solution really. 'When you're about to engage in battle' is still before the battle. So just calculate your 'non psychic combat craft' - that is now your strength in battle (craft when not in psycic combat=battle base strength. Then engage in battle and add any battle boosters you can as usual (strength weapons, psionic blast, warhorse etc.

I think you're reading to much into this and therefore forgetting what the card actually reads. I think it's the obvious way to play it, and we'll continue to play it like this until an official ruling tells us it's wrong.

Yes, you can use weapons. Spending a spell replaces your Strength with Craft, all other modifiers (weapons, spells, etc) would still apply.

Edit; At least I think so, I could see an argument the other way that since you're using Craft instead of Strength weapons don't work because they add to Strength. This is a good candidate for an FAQ.

Balance-wise I think using weapons works out fine since the Leywalker is kind of weak otherwise.

We played this. It's the only possible solution really. 'When you're about to engage in battle' is still before the battle. So just calculate your 'non psychic combat craft' - that is now your strength in battle (craft when not in psycic combat=battle base strength. Then engage in battle and add any battle boosters you can as usual (strength weapons, psionic blast, warhorse etc.

I think you're reading to much into this and therefore forgetting what the card actually reads. I think it's the obvious way to play it, and we'll continue to play it like this until an official ruling tells us it's wrong.

So... Basically like what I said before then?

Yes, basically. Many have been arguing this but seems to be second guessing themselves. Nioreh put it nicely I think. In short: base craft=base strength + battle modifiers + die roll = attack score.

Ok, I am good either way. Again thanks for all the replies, it was......mostly constructive.

I still have a hard time accepting that the Magic Belt (+1 Strength) and Maiden (+2 Craft) would combine to provide +3 Craft when I'm asked to use my Craft instead of Strength.

Since Craft = Craft value + Craft counters (blue cones) + Craft modifiers (e.g. Maiden).

Likewise, Strength = Strength value + Strength counters (red cones) + Strength modifiers (e.g. Magic Belt).

So I just assumed when I "use my Craft," I would calculate Craft according to Craft value, blue cones, and Craft modifiers, as opposed to Craft value, blue cones, and all modifiers.

That said, play however you think is the most fun. But if you wouldn't mind, tell me if my thoughts are way off the mark.

I would say that you can use maiden since she's included in your base craft but not the magic belt since that's included in base strength (since this happens before the battle). You can however add the +1 from a sword which is used in battle only and comes in to play after you've decided to use your craft instead of strength and entered battle. That's how we play it. It's simplest and follows the wording of the card.

I think Rigmaster proposed the most reasonable interpretation.

Craft "instead" of Strength means that all bonuses to Strength are ignored before the battle takes place. So if you use Leywalker's ability, your Magic Belt is out of play, but Maiden will apply. Then, with your Craft used as Strength, you can use Weapons that add to Strength in battle as normal. It would be absurd not to be able to use Weapons because of an old wording that presumed that characters would always use Strength in battle.

This is where you feel the big gap between the base rules and the most recent material. The basic rules could not think of Monsters, Dragons and Animals with Craft, but now we have them all.

A funny thing I've noticed is that Psionic Wand (Dragon exp) had the same ability as the Leywalker, but it's a Weapon and normally you don't use other Weapons together. The Warrior and Dervish are the only ones who could, but they don't need it; they could have raised the question when in psychic combat with Exorcist's Blade and another Weapon used in psychic combat. Nevertheless, nobody ever asked if he could first calculate the total Craft derived from Objects/Followers and then add also Strength derived from Objects/Followers.

To be extra clear, the ability could have been: "use your Craft as if it were your Strength in battle".

I agree with you Warlock, except that I think you would use a Weapon that adds to your Craft in psychic combat. By using this ability, you may use anything that adds to Craft, even though it would normally only be allowed in psychic combat.

Toadify & Finger of Death can still be used, but not Soul Shatter.