So, if there are any marketers listening, they need to understand that many Star Wars fans are classic-oriented and hate the EU.

Many? How exactly do you define that? As a % or as a raw number?

Neither you nor I know the exact answer to that. When I say many, I mean that I think it is likely enough to be significant. You don't think that there are enough fans who are pissed off enough at Eps I through III that they don't account for a sizable portion of fans?

Regardless, you're basically saying that you're ok with people who only like classic leaving the game. My point is that you should be concerned about ANYONE leaving the game, whether they match your preferences or not.

Ok, if you're like I *was* and only interested in OT stuff ( i made an exception to the HWK as it was in Dark Forces which i loved). *how* do you keep people in the game who only want OT stuff

You cant do repaints.

IIRC the white/red a wing is the only one seen. The b wing with an orange circle is the only one seen (blue squadron). You have a few minor variations on xwings and Y wings and that about it. Then you've got the falcon, yep we dd that.

Imperial... well you've again got no repaints as everything is either 'grey' for ANH before blue screen got better or 'imperial blue grey' after that.... and again you've ot what four small ships, slave 1 and a lambda.

What can you do to keep you in the game?

Rehash the mechanics for the sake of it ala warhammer... yeah we've all seen how happy that keeps the fans

Remake the game in a smaller scale to allow bigger support ships... even then you've only really got three or four once syou can use like corvettes, transports, nebulons...

Make up new pilots...? but if you do that they are EU.. they are not part of the OT unless you decide (or lucas decrees) that one of the names guys from the cantina moonlights as a TIE pilot

I just dont see how you can stop someone leaving if they are bored and only want ot stuff when everything ot has been done. Personally if a new ship never came out after tomorrow i'd still play. Most my home games are really mainly using OT stuff. I've got EU stuff i just prefer OT stuff... occasionally the z95s come out.

I would love to see a cards only pack. You could have a black market pack that would go with the scum and villany , You could have the champions of the rebellion pack for the rebels and the might of the imperials card pack. Also a Best of the EU card pack.

Black market could have a bunch of illegal modified weapons, shield up grades etc.

Champions of the rebellion could have a bunch of new weapons , pilots, double agents etc.

Might of the imperials could have Imperial specialty cards upgrades and cloaks.

Best of the EU card pack could have an Imperial and Rebel side. With all characters pilots etc totally dedicated to the EU.

You're basically saying that you're ok with people who only like classic leaving the game. My point is that you should be concerned about ANYONE leaving the game, whether they match your preferences or not.

You can please all of the fans some of the time and some of the fans all of the time, but you can't please all of the fans all of the time.

they have said they won't release card only sets..

I missed that. Source?

I dont see why anyone would have to stop playing because they dont like the new ships coming out?

When i played a lot of 40k i thought necrons were naff when they came out... i didnt sell up though (that took years more of dissolusionment)

what stops me playing a game is constant rules rewrites or models being made redundant.

So far FFG havent found the need to do either of those yet.

I'm not a competetive/tourny player but if i were, given that lists using only OT stuff are incredibly competetive (tie swarm from wave 1 & fat han since the tantive release) and those are just the first two off the top of my head... well...

unless your reason for being in the game is to collect the models then i cant see why new stuff coming out that you dont like is anything other than a bit of a relief to your wallet.

Make up new pilots...? but if you do that they are EU.. they are not part of the OT unless you decide (or lucas decrees) that one of the names guys from the cantina moonlights as a TIE pilot

My interpretation of the OT isn't as strict as yours. I want OT iconic ships and I want those ships to still be useable. I could care less who the pilot is. I want tactical options that make running OT ships continually interesting.

You could name him Rebel Flight Leader for all I cared, but give him an ability that brings something new to the game. Or, maybe FFG goes the Star Wars Miniatures route and has multiple versions of iconic pilots. Luke, Jedi Ace has a different ability than Luke Skywalker. It's really not that difficult to do and keep it entirely OT, if you think that has to be the case.

If you read into my posts, it isn't canon and fluff that is most important to me. It is cool abilities that give tactical options. But I don't want those abilities on Yuuzhan Vong ships or any of the other EU crap stains out there. I want it on an X-wing.

Why is it so hard for some of you to imagine that they could support a game that caters to all demographics of interest and keeps all factions and genres of the game interesting? What are you afraid of for FFG continually supporting OT while also supporting EU? We don't need new ships for the OT. Its covered. We do need new pilots.

Because reading the general feeling on the board i think you might be a very small part of that demographic.

With a design team given the option of say

A. do a third faction, bring in new players, exisiting ones buy into it, liven up the tournament and home gaming dynamic

or

B. Rehash exisiting ships over and over

You can understand why they might want to focus on the former.

I like your 'luke as a rookie', luke as a jedi' idea but dont we already have that.

We have luke as a gunner for say the falcon, we have luke as an xwing pilot.

he's not a 'full jedi' until the end of ROTJ

Im looking at this from the perspective of someone who has worked in marketing for a very very big wargames company.

New product line is always going to be a better option than fine tuning an old one.

Or, they do both A and B.

Which, with the Aces Packs and "Most Wanted" type packs, they will likely do.

As for pure card packs, unlikely. Keep in mind, that it won't just be new pilot cards, but the card board tokens for those ships as well. Which increases the packaging costs significantly. So, why would they do that, when they can add a miniature and charge more?

Neither you nor I know the exact answer to that.

I can look at the sales figures that FFG posted at GenCon and see X-Wing is still a massively selling game. I can look at the issue people were having getting enough Wave 4 stuff to see how well it sold. So I may not know the exact answer but I can say for sure that Wave 4 sold well enough that most people are willing to buy EU stuff.

So there are clearly more people out there like me who will buy EU ships then there are who refuse to do so.

Your whole premise seemed to be that because there are a sizable number of people out there who refuse to buy EU ships, that FFG must do something or else they risk seeing a decline in sales and people playing the game.

I was simply refuting that premise with the facts as we know them. That Wave 4 sold very well, so the idea that X-Wing is in trouble due to lack of people willing to buy EU stuff is simply not true. That doesn't mean that FFG shouldn't produce stuff from the OT, rebel aces is a good example of OT stuff being produced still.

You don't think that there are enough fans who are pissed off enough at Eps I through III that they don't account for a sizable portion of fans

Not sure what those have to do with anything. FFG has made it quite clear that they don't intend to make ships from the prequels.

My point is that you should be concerned about ANYONE leaving the game, whether they match your preferences or not.

There are no more OT ships to make. So if someone refuses to buy EU ships then there's nothing anyone can do about that. You can't lose a customer who doesn't buy product in the first place.

But with the release of Rebel Aces, it's clear that EU only isn't the direction they're going either. I'm sure they'll keep producing aces packs for some time because they are popular and sell well.

But there's only so many reprints that people will buy, at some point you'll have so many X-Wings that there's just no sense in buying more. At that point the only option is EU ships.

Yeah that was exactly my point...

*nods* I was agreeing with you and expounding a bit.

"Too many"??? What is this phrases? (struggles to contain the urge to get third Imperial Aces pack)

(struggles to contain the urge to get third Imperial Aces pack)

When you have 16 X-Wings or 24 Interceptors... How good does the pilots have to be before you buy another 4 or so of them?

Edit: Myself I could see buying an Aces pack for Tie fighters, or Bombers, or Y-Wings... But I can't see buying another aces pack for Interceptors, X's, B's or A's.

Honestly, a lot of it is a weird OCD twitch. I want the fighters in groups of 3 or 4 (I currently have 3 TIE Advances and 3 HWKs, NO REGRETS!!!!!). Luckily, the Large ships don't seem to trigger that itch.

While it isn't a random model, there is very much a collectible aspect to this game.

wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

This entire thread in a nutshell.

Honestly, a lot of it is a weird OCD twitch.

I very much have that. That's one of the reasons I have 2 Tie Advanced. I broke it with the HWK and only got 1, because I didn't think more then one was worth it. But I do have 3 E's, Phantoms and Defenders...

I have that similar feeling. I felt it necessary to try to get as many of each ship that would fit into 100pts.

As for pure card packs, unlikely. Keep in mind, that it won't just be new pilot cards, but the card board tokens for those ships as well. Which increases the packaging costs significantly. So, why would they do that, when they can add a miniature and charge more?

I suspect the R&D on a new miniature is much more complicated and costly than cards and punchboard. Same goes for packaging those items. I think FFG can probably sneeze and end up with a cards-only pack that'll turn a nice profit.

Yes, but there is a psychological aspect. I can easily see such a pack being $7-10. That is a bit much for what you get, and it will turn some off. Yet, it is reasonable when packaged with a miniature for more.

And the mold is the most expensive part of a ship. Why wouldn't they try to get more bang for their buck and re-use it.

Why is it so hard for some of you to imagine that they could support a game that caters to all demographics of interest and keeps all factions and genres of the game interesting? What are you afraid of for FFG continually supporting OT while also supporting EU? We don't need new ships for the OT. Its covered. We do need new pilots.

Because a miniatures game needs new miniatures. They release acepacks to increase the options of previous ships, but waves involve new models.

They've run out of movie ships. If you want to just buy the acepacks, just buy the acepacks. But don't kid yourself into thinking there's a significant number of people who refuse to touch any of Wave 4 "because EU." If there were, FFG would be shifting strategy.

X-wing is one game. If it's balanced an individual can restrict themselves to XAYB ln/in/sa/x1 and the pre-Wave 5 larges, but they aren't going to cater to an OT only format.

Besides, FFG are fairly discerning with EU. The nearest to an ugly monster they've added is the E-wing, and they even made that look like it belongs.

Yes, but there is a psychological aspect. I can easily see such a pack being $7-10. That is a bit much for what you get, and it will turn some off. Yet, it is reasonable when packaged with a miniature for more.

And the mold is the most expensive part of a ship. Why wouldn't they try to get more bang for their buck and re-use it.

FFG releases a $15 pack of Netrunner cards about every month that includes 60 cards (3x 20 new cards).

For the same price, I think they could give us 8 new unique pilots, 4 new generics (x4, or even more) and you're about halfway there. Add some upgrades. Fill up the rest of the space with the necessary tokens.

I think they could create one pack like this for each faction, once or twice a year, and X-Wing players would gobble them up like everything else.

At what point would you exhaust the potential of a tie fighter or x-wing just with card upgrades? There is only so much you can do

At what point would you exhaust the potential of a tie fighter or x-wing just with card upgrades? There is only so much you can do

We are probably very far from exhausting the imaginations of the game's designers.

Make up new pilots...? but if you do that they are EU.. they are not part of the OT unless you decide (or lucas decrees) that one of the names guys from the cantina moonlights as a TIE pilot

My interpretation of the OT isn't as strict as yours. I want OT iconic ships and I want those ships to still be useable. I could care less who the pilot is. I want tactical options that make running OT ships continually interesting.

You could name him Rebel Flight Leader for all I cared, but give him an ability that brings something new to the game. Or, maybe FFG goes the Star Wars Miniatures route and has multiple versions of iconic pilots. Luke, Jedi Ace has a different ability than Luke Skywalker. It's really not that difficult to do and keep it entirely OT, if you think that has to be the case.

If you read into my posts, it isn't canon and fluff that is most important to me. It is cool abilities that give tactical options. But I don't want those abilities on Yuuzhan Vong ships or any of the other EU crap stains out there. I want it on an X-wing.

Why is it so hard for some of you to imagine that they could support a game that caters to all demographics of interest and keeps all factions and genres of the game interesting? What are you afraid of for FFG continually supporting OT while also supporting EU? We don't need new ships for the OT. Its covered. We do need new pilots.

So basically you're saying you think that because more EU ships come out, OT ships are unviable. Have you ever considered all the new content that comes out, compliments all OT ships?

So basically you're saying you think that because more EU ships come out, OT ships are unviable. Have you ever considered all the new content that comes out, compliments all OT ships?

Upgrade cards, of course. Pilots? No. The viability of any upgrade card is largely based upon the cost of the pilot you start with.

@TIE Pillot: I'm not asking them to cater to OT only. I'm asking them to continue to support both EU and OT. And if you can't support OT with new ships, then you need new mechanics to keep it interesting.

Now, if we combine the best of both worlds and keep getting modifications and titles that can alter how OT ships play, I'll be happy with that.

So basically you're saying you think that because more EU ships come out, OT ships are unviable. Have you ever considered all the new content that comes out, compliments all OT ships?

Upgrade cards, of course. Pilots? No. The viability of any upgrade card is largely based upon the cost of the pilot you start with.

@TIE Pillot: I'm not asking them to cater to OT only. I'm asking them to continue to support both EU and OT. And if you can't support OT with new ships, then you need new mechanics to keep it interesting.

Now, if we combine the best of both worlds and keep getting modifications and titles that can alter how OT ships play, I'll be happy with that.

They already support both with aces packs so quit complaining.

They already support both with aces packs so quit complaining.

I'm not complaining. Jesus. The title of this thread is "What do you want to see?" and I answered that question. And it was followed by: "What you want to see is crazy!" and "You're no true scotsman!"

Anyone who wants to make a business argument for not making pilot card packs that's fine. I can't guarantee that they're going to keep making Aces packs, and if they don't, pilot packs are the logical alternative. They may not be likely, but that's what I want.

Right now I feel like I'm being ganged up on for having a preference and requesting my preference. It's almost like: "Your fogey OT ways are not welcome here! It is only those that embrace all of Star wars are welcome here!"