Concerns about the new Heroes preview

By Paine, in Star Wars: Imperial Assault

A few things in the newest article seem to indicate that this game wasn't very well playtested or proofread:

1. Jyn's Opportunist ability says "move 1 space," with no "may" or "can choose." As written it seems pretty clear that Jyn MUST move whenever she deals damage. I can think of a lot of situations in which the hero player wouldn't want her to move.

2. Jyn's Trick Shot card says you may "draw line of sight" from another square, but nothing else. The description in the article indicates that you calculate range from the new square as well as line of sight, so which is it? Either the article is wrong or the card is incomplete.

A few things in the newest article seem to indicate that this game wasn't very well playtested or proofread:

1. Jyn's Opportunist ability says "move 1 space," with no "may" or "can choose." As written it seems pretty clear that Jyn MUST move whenever she deals damage. I can think of a lot of situations in which the hero player wouldn't want her to move.

2. Jyn's Trick Shot card says you may "draw line of sight" from another square, but nothing else. The description in the article indicates that you calculate range from the new square as well as line of sight, so which is it? Either the article is wrong or the card is incomplete.

1. If the ability is optional, it doesn't need to say "may" or "can." If you don't want to move, don't activate the ability. But if you do choose to activate the ability, then yes, you will have to move.

2. We don't have all the answers, but it is possible that the rules as written dictate that accuracy is calculated from the same point at which line of sight is drawn. If that is the case, there is no issue with the card as written.

Edited by Budgernaut

1. If the ability is optional, it doesn't need to say "may" or "can." If you don't want to move, don't activate the ability. But if you do choose to activate the ability, then yes, you will have to move.

Touché.

A few things in the newest article seem to indicate that this game wasn't very well playtested or proofread:

1. Jyn's Opportunist ability says "move 1 space," with no "may" or "can choose." As written it seems pretty clear that Jyn MUST move whenever she deals damage. I can think of a lot of situations in which the hero player wouldn't want her to move.

2. Jyn's Trick Shot card says you may "draw line of sight" from another square, but nothing else. The description in the article indicates that you calculate range from the new square as well as line of sight, so which is it? Either the article is wrong or the card is incomplete.

Neither of those things are indicative of lack of playtesting or proofreading. Why are you concluding that the Opportunist ability isn't meant to work as a mandatory effect? You have no reason to believe intent wasn't to force her to move whether that is in her interest or not.

Secondly, as stated, we have limited information on how rules for attacking work. You have no reason to conclude either of the things you are asserting in that regard.

You are jumping to stark conclusions with no real basis.

^- This.

It always amazes me when individuals are critiquing a game, and disagree with an approach and/or ruling and/or card text months before they will even have the opportunity to read the complete rules and play the game.

As if they know better than the people who designed the game.

In his defense, the web articles are often wrought with spelling and grammatical errors. It doesn't exactly instill confidence in the consumer base to see that, so it is easy to jump to conclusions that the game pieces may also have errors. It probably isn't the case because I doubt the ones writing card text are the same ones writing the articles, but it does bother me. In this instance, I don't think we have enough info to judge whether a mistake has been made, but I do wish FFG would be careful with their writing for all parts of the company (including the website), not just on the products.

I own some FFG games, but not a ton. TI3, X-Wing, Descent...and I think that's it. I guess that's not a lot, but I have never found a spelling mistake or a card written so poorly that it impacts the game. If nothing else, FFG cares passionately about their games, so I doubt they'd let poor wording get to the printers. Therefore I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here and wait to see the finished product before passing judgment.

As some one who plays FFGs LCGs they do occasionally releases cards that actually don't work as written, see AGoT FAQ. So I never put incorrect wordings past them. Though in general the last few years have shown significant improvements.

As far as gaming articles by FFG, I've seen game designer written article that actually specify game play situation that break the rules of the game, again AGoT. There's probably a reason I stopped playing AGoT, can't quite seem to figure it out. Hmmm.

Anyway I have high hopes for this game and I have seen significant improvement in the newer LCG design and rules. Crosses fingers this game is awesome.

Neither of those things are indicative of lack of playtesting or proofreading. Why are you concluding that the Opportunist ability isn't meant to work as a mandatory effect? You have no reason to believe intent wasn't to force her to move whether that is in her interest or not.

Secondly, as stated, we have limited information on how rules for attacking work. You have no reason to conclude either of the things you are asserting in that regard.

You are jumping to stark conclusions with no real basis.

I think I have a fair amount of basis. The materials in the preview article are being presented as final product, not beta or in development. The game is already being printed. You're right, it is possible that Opportunist could actually be intended to work as written, but that would be a very strange design decision. Hero abilities should work to the benefit of the hero, that's been true in Descent and I think is a general maxim of RPGs. There are so many situations in which Jyn would not want to move after dealing damage (already in perfect cover position, needs to block a narrow hallway, needs to interact with the environment in her square) that I would consider the character broken if the ability was meant strictly as written.

Why would that be a strange design choice? There are a number of examples of abilities in games that provide what is routinely a benefit, but not universally one. Why is it mandatory that abilities are always beneficial? Isn't that just plain lazy game design? Wouldn't an ability that you have to always consider lead to far more interesting game play then one you can just ignore when it suits you? Couldn't such an ability operate as a balancing effect on a game pieces power level?

Your only basis is your own personal preference, which is no basis for leveling the accusation of lack of play-testing with such limited edition information available. How you expect things to work in a game is not the only way for things to work.

As some one who plays FFGs LCGs they do occasionally releases cards that actually don't work as written, see AGoT FAQ. So I never put incorrect wordings past them. Though in general the last few years have shown significant improvements.

As far as gaming articles by FFG, I've seen game designer written article that actually specify game play situation that break the rules of the game, again AGoT. There's probably a reason I stopped playing AGoT, can't quite seem to figure it out. Hmmm.

Anyway I have high hopes for this game and I have seen significant improvement in the newer LCG design and rules. Crosses fingers this game is awesome.

AGoT is one of there worst current products ruleswise. They weren't well written to begin with sadly.

Yes, every game is going to have items that require clarification because they are worded incorrectly or unclearly. It's a given. But that in no way means that everything you think should work a certain way, different from it's wording, is a misprint or an oversight. The OP seems to take that line off thinking.

AGoT is one of there worst current products ruleswise. They weren't well written to begin with sadly.

Yes, every game is going to have items that require clarification because they are worded incorrectly or unclearly. It's a given. But that in no way means that everything you think should work a certain way, different from it's wording, is a misprint or an oversight. The OP seems to take that line off thinking.

In his defense, the web articles are often wrought with spelling and grammatical errors. It doesn't exactly instill confidence in the consumer base to see that, so it is easy to jump to conclusions that the game pieces may also have errors. It probably isn't the case because I doubt the ones writing card text are the same ones writing the articles, but it does bother me. In this instance, I don't think we have enough info to judge whether a mistake has been made, but I do wish FFG would be careful with their writing for all parts of the company (including the website), not just on the products.

A few things in the newest article seem to indicate that this game wasn't very well playtested or proofread:

1. Jyn's Opportunist ability says "move 1 space," with no "may" or "can choose." As written it seems pretty clear that Jyn MUST move whenever she deals damage. I can think of a lot of situations in which the hero player wouldn't want her to move.

2. Jyn's Trick Shot card says you may "draw line of sight" from another square, but nothing else. The description in the article indicates that you calculate range from the new square as well as line of sight, so which is it? Either the article is wrong or the card is incomplete.

Neither of those things are indicative of lack of playtesting or proofreading. Why are you concluding that the Opportunist ability isn't meant to work as a mandatory effect? You have no reason to believe intent wasn't to force her to move whether that is in her interest or not.

Secondly, as stated, we have limited information on how rules for attacking work. You have no reason to conclude either of the things you are asserting in that regard.

You are jumping to stark conclusions with no real basis.

from the article as Paine pointed out: "Thankfully, Jyn Odan also has the Opportunist ability. Whenever she attacks, if her target suffered damage, she may move one space , allowing her to get behind cover or set up another shot."

Poorly worded paragraphs sadly is something to be expected of FFG, so the OP is totally right to have this line of thoughts. Even if it was meant to be mandatory it should have been pointed out explicitly to avoid misunderstandings.

I don't understand how FFG can't fix that. My only explanation is that playtesting is completely unpaid and on a voluntarly basis or they have far too few people for quality-control or pay really bad. I mean so far I don't remember outright mistakes on game material, but this is quite the severe case if that's the final hero-sheet (and why wouldn't it be?)

Edited by DAMaz