I remember a topic awhile back debating if Investigators were in the same location during the final battle. Investigators can trade items as if they are, of course, but for things such as the Heal spell/Carolyn Fern/Vincent Lee's ability it's different. I think I remember people ending with 'If they were in the same location when the AO woke up then those abilities could be used, otherwise they can't share the wealth." The only reason I bring this up is because the Investigators that gets and gives a +1 to all skill checks can give a decent boost during the final battle depending on the ruling.

They can trade AS IF they where in the same location... so sorry Lee, Thi Phan, etc... easy solution get them in same spot before Big Monster wakes!

... of course they're in the same location. You're all coming together to fight the AO. I don't think that Minh is taking potshots at the AO with her sniper rifle from Innsmouth Jail while Zoe stabbs the thing from the Church and Vincent Lee is praying some spell he knows can somehow affect the GOO while he's in Another Dimension.

What's more, Gamura, you're logic is totally off base here, you seem to be suggesting that Minh would get her bonus if she met up with an investigator before Final Combat, but not if she didn't? By that logic, Silas Marsh gets +2 to fight against an AO if he was in an aquatic location when he woke up? No... I don't think so.

So how does that work with the Madness cards? Paranoia... always going to be losing that Sanity or the other Madness that deal with Other Worlds, Locations, Streets? Your going to have investigator in two places at once!

About Paranoia: Yep, it sucks to be you.

The way I see it, AO wakes up, everyone drops what they're doing (cause it doesn't matter anymore) and goes to fight him in one last ditch effort to stop the end of the world. I suppose the best way to think about it is that you are fighting the AO, you're all in the same location, but you're not in any board location. Rather, you're in a special kind of "battlefield" location, which is not on the map, for there is no need for such a space and it would only cramp up the board.

EvilAmarant7x said:

The problem here is you need to interpret what FFG means by "location." In the strictest sense, a location is only a space in the cities. It is not the OW and it would not be the "generic space" that investigators all share during the final battle. So as written, Minh's ability is only usable in Arkham (and the other cities) and completely useless in the OW and Final Battle.

The problem is after going through great lengths to "define" these spaces, FFG then misuses them frequently. So does this "location" mean cjust city spaces or does "location" mean any generic space?

For final battle, I rule that Paranoia affects the investigator. Xenophobia, Agoraphobia, and Claustrophobia are up in the air for me, and I don't apply their effects, as I consider final battle to take place in an undefined "neutral" zone. However, being able to trade items during Final Battle makes it abundantly clear that the investigators are all together in this zone.

This of course, is all my interpretation however.

ColtsFan76 said:

I honestly think it depends on its use, unfortunately. I take Muldoon's ability to be useable in the street.

I had paranoia in the final battle once.

It wasn't much fun.

Surely the specific definition for 'Location' holds. Even if FFG gets a little confused in its application from time to time.

Locations are the areas on the board attached to streets. Anything else, including the final battle, must therefore not be a location and not trigger location abilities.

Omnisiah said:

You saying Devil Reef and Y'tha (whatever it is, IH still hopefully this week) aren't locations, as they aren't connected to a street ?

interestingly, by the original strict definition, Yha and Devils probably aren't, but clearly they are intended to be. The rule book specifically states that players 'pass through the streets to visit the various locations'.

There should be an explicit clarification in the IH rulebook... but there probably won't be.

Omnisiah said:

Humm... I think you're missing the point here, guys... the final battle isn't a 'location' because it isn't a place of any kind at all.

I thought I knew how this ought to work, but after going through the rulebooks and the very few helpful FAQ answers, I'm not so sure. There are a lot of things that I've been taking for granted...

Nothing in the final battle rules tells you to move anyone. Everyone stays where they are, scattered around Arkham and OWs. So if you were in the same location as someone else when the Ancient One awakens, you are unquestionably 'still there' for the duration of the Final Battle. However, it almost certainly won't matter. The reason that the game board becomes almost irrelevent is that nearly everything that happens in AH is specified to happen in a particular phase of the turn, and once the AO awakens the ordinary turn sequence is suspended. The AO combat has its own set of 'steps' (as distinct from 'phases'), in which only very specific things are permitted. So all of the ordinary phases in Arkham no longer apply.

The steps are:

1. 'Investigators Refresh' - not 'Upkeep', so upkeep-contingent cards (like Paranoia) will not trigger. And obviously, since it's not the upkeep, you can't do upkeep-related things unless the rulebook specifies that you can. It permits three things: refresh cards, use investigator special abilities, and adjust skill sliders. That seems pretty clear to me... except that it seems like some other things you could do in the upkeep are also meant to happen. The rulebook specifies that you don't get any more money from loans or retainers, nor do you roll for them - which seems like redundant explanation to me, because my boringly literal brain says "But of course you don't get retainer money, it's not the upkeep." But the rulebook doesn't tell you whether or not to roll for blessings and curses. Do you guys roll for Bless/Curse in the Final Battle? I've always assumed that I should roll during the 'Refresh' step, if only becuase otherwise it can make things a bit predictable (one way or another).

2. 'Investigators Attack' - each investigator can make a combat check. The rulebook doesn't say that you can do anything else.

3. 'Ancient One Attacks' - resolve the AO's attack.

The big question, though: what phase is it during the final battle? There are plenty of items which you are presumably meant to be able to use during the battle - weapons like the Fetch Stick and the Flamethrower - which require it to be 'any phase'. Is the Final Battle a phase of its own? Or does it just all happen during whatever phase it was when the AO woke up? It's possible for the AO to awaken during any phase at all (because of Call Ancient One, if nothing else). So if you woke it up during the Arkham Encounter phase, would it still be that phase for the duration of the battle? Nothing in the rulebook indicates

I don't have the answers to all this, I'm just trying to clarify the exact nature of the confusion!

The way we've always played it - and indeed the way I think works perfectly - is that all Investigators are in the same unspecified location (so yes, you could be affected by a madness card) but that location isn't a street or normal city or other world location, it's just a place. Allowing you to trade (which we limit to before the Epic Fight card is drawn) and use Carolyn Fern, etc. And yes, you roll for Retainers and Blessings like usual.

Maybe going on the strictest reading of the rules we are doing something wrong, but it works for us and is not contradicted by any rules or cards that we can find.

thecorinthian said:

I've wondered about this for a while, too, and my conclusion is: yes, roll for Bless/Curse in the Final Battle. My basis is simply Yig's Sinister Plot card that re-triggers his Start of Battle ability, cursing every investigator once again (and devouring those who were cursed already). Now, this could be meant just against investigators who were blessed before Yig woke up, but that feels like a stretch to me. More likely, it means that investigators may indeed get rid of the curse - and with the Sinister Plot card may be cursed again.

-Villain

FAQ seems pretty clear on this (in some matters):

"Q: In combat with Ancient Ones, do investigators get a
full Upkeep Phase, or is the Upkeep Phase limited in some
way during the final battle?
A: Investigators get a full Upkeep phase."

Blessing/Curse are rolled during Upkeep. You can cast Voice of Ra to boost your combat, etc. I play Paranoia as in effect during final combat. Makes sense, you see other people attacking the horrid thing, but are they just faking it, ready to stab you in the back if you let your guard down or truly trying to save the world .

Dam said:

AHA! YOU ADMIT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO STAB ME IN THE BACK DURING FINAL BATTLE!

I play that all investigator's are in their same spot on the board. Mainly because of the Madness cards from DH.

Dam said:

Ok, well obviously that settles it. Although whoever wrote that answer neglects to mention that this is not just a clarification, but actually a complete override of the rulebook! The final battle upkeep phase is not "limited in some way", because there is no upkeep phase during the final battle - except that now, with this answer, it turns out that there IS! Gah! I think I just lost my last sanity point.