So I played a game this weekend with 2 of my buddies. We agreed to do a 60 point, free for all game. I played the notorious Fat Han. He was a tub of lard. They played, echo and an intercepter and a tie mini-swarm, respectively. Once I showed them how lame Fat Han could be if they left me alone, they teamed up against me. Ended up taking out echo, the intercepter, and 2 of the 5 ties. Before they teamed up, echo wiped up a tie as well. so by the end, there was 2 ties vs Tubby McHan butt. They took me down. I wept for the meat sweating fool.

On a more serious note, I learned how to deal with Fat Han. Block block block block. Do you best to block action and throw dice at him and Fat Han falls apart.

yeah...

but you effectively had Fat Han by himself go against a 120 point list

any 60point list would get chewed up by that

Fat Han flown well is fantastic against almost any similar point squad. However, once more people get their hands on a decimator.. things are gonna change

Fat Han blows up the world and outruns the explosion like so many Death Stars.

I'm not sure that the Decimator is the answer to Fat Han. I think having lots of well coordinated ships is what you want.

Pretty much the second I used C-3P0 they were like, well screw this guy. They ganged up on me like a gang of gang members gang up on people who aren't gang members who cross them somehow....that seemed better in my head.

I'm not sure that the Decimator is the answer to Fat Han. I think having lots of well coordinated ships is what you want.

I agree with you

but I think it might just shut up all the crazy"FAT HAN IS OP" that goes around

Pretty much the second I used C-3P0 they were like, well screw this guy. They ganged up on me like a gang of gang members gang up on people who aren't gang members who cross them somehow....that seemed better in my head.

I don't blame em it wasn't very sporting was it going straight for the worst version of the falcon.

oh gods no. i know it wasn't sporting. it was fun to fly and it was my first time to fly the yt ever. my friend flying echo had never played someone with one and my buddy with the mini-swarm just wanted to roll all the dice. it was a fun game for all of us as we got to trash talk a whole bunch, rag on each other and learn the abilities of 2 of the big guns out there now.

We might stop hearing about Falcons being crazy, but it's only because there'll be more broken stuff that heavily penalizes fighter builds. It's like healing the fracture by snapping off the bone.

We might stop hearing about Falcons being crazy, but it's only because there'll be more broken stuff that heavily penalizes fighter builds. It's like healing the fracture by snapping off the bone.

I've liked and agreed with your posts in the past, but this forum has become nearly unbearable over the past couple of months, and posts like this are the reason why. Wave 5 isn't in wide release, so we have very little idea how Wave 5 is going to affect the metagame, and there's not enough public information for people to speculate on how Wave 6 is going to affect the metagame. But apparently you've reached into the future, seen how terrible and broken it is, and reported back: the sky is already still having been on-fallen*.

So if you're that down on the game, please remember you have the option of leaving. There's even a whole thread right now that's perfect for posting your farewell notice and linking to your eBay sale!

Or, alternately, you can admit to yourself that things aren't actually that bad--you can play "fighter builds" successfully against Fat Han! They're really quite effective!--and stop participating in the positive feedback loop that's making this forum into a squealing mess.

But please, and this is addressed to anyone for whom disgust with Falcon builds has become an essential trait of your participation here: pick one or the other.

*This is the correct conjugation, according to Streetmentioner's Time Traveler's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations.

Sorry about that. I guess I was just thinking about listening to the latest S&V Podcast and noticing how much Dash was dominating things in the TCO, and I've been having a hard time making my favorite ships work anymore. A friend was lucky enough to go to GenCon and bring back a couple, of these things and in the initial experiments it's been pretty tough to deal with. It would be unreasonable for me to expect the meta to stay the same or to not have to adapt. So far all my evolving sharks have ended up in Neil DeGrasse Tyson's Hall of Extinction though. I'm glad that since things can't be rolled back really that the Decimator gives an Imperial option. It's definitely a fun ship to fly, and I'm hoping that Scum and Villainy does break this meta up, and the durable IG-88 gives me hope for a non turret ship that'll still be interesting to fly.

awings with outmanouver are the death of Han, and chewy, and lando. get out of your main arc and boom your dead with rolling zero dice for defence

Sorry about that. I guess I was just thinking about listening to the latest S&V Podcast and noticing how much Dash was dominating things in the TCO, and I've been having a hard time making my favorite ships work anymore.

I re-read my post and I'm sort of sorry I went off like that, too.

The deal with Dash is that he's brand-new, and he's strong. When you spend 58 points on a ship, it should be strong. He's also got a mold-breaking (although not game-breaking) ability, and it's going to take time for people to figure out how to beat him reliably. But I've killed him with swarms (Rebel and Imperial), I've killed him with shuttles, with ion-carrying Y-wings, and with Interceptors and Phantoms. He's eminently killable--it just takes planning, practice, and patience.

And seriously, it's going to get better as soon as Wave 6 arrives.

I'm glad that since things can't be rolled back really that the Decimator gives an Imperial option. It's definitely a fun ship to fly, and I'm hoping that Scum and Villainy does break this meta up, and the durable IG-88 gives me hope for a non turret ship that'll still be interesting to fly.

I'm glad things aren't as dark for you as the previous post implied and, again, sorry for blowing up.

No problem, I understand. I've been getting a bit afraid of these turrets, perhaps a bit paranoid, about things feeling more like how Attack Wing has gone, but I don't see it ever getting that bad. And honestly, my bad experiences have been with Chewie. The ships should be tough for that many points, but what I'm missing is the ability to have an open meta. The possibility of losing matches in the squad building phase seemed a lot more remote back then. The weaknesses in any given squad at least to me as an ok but not great player, are harder to compensate for with individual match strategy. In one of my tests against Dash he obliterated Ties who just couldn't do anything to him at all. I won, but only by having 6 turns of a 1hp Soontir staying in range 1. Most of my frustrating, which I'll try to town down, comes from difficulties in getting my favorite ship, the Tie fighter, to do its thing and feeling like I need to have incredibly specific lists to counter a checklist of individual ships. What sets me off sometimes are the assertion that these 2-attack ships are still working like they used to I suppose.

There are a lot of unpleasant people, but I guess some of us get unreasonably upset sometimes because of how much we like the game. So I'll try to keep it in check and keep trying variations. Maybe one of these dumb ideas will work and I'll be happy as a clam! By which I mean I won't have a nervous system to speak of.

Pretty much the second I used C-3P0 they were like, well screw this guy. They ganged up on me like a gang of gang members gang up on people who aren't gang members who cross them somehow....that seemed better in my head.

Gang members generally gang up harder on rival gang members than civilians.

Another Fart Han post >.<

I'm honestly tired of Fat Han being the name. Tubby McHan Butt is much more eloquent and sophisticated.

After he married leia there were alot of diplomatic lunches it was bound to happen.

The deal with Dash is that he's brand-new, and he's strong. When you spend 58 points on a ship, it should be strong. He's also got a mold-breaking (although not game-breaking) ability, and it's going to take time for people to figure out how to beat him reliably. But I've killed him with swarms (Rebel and Imperial), I've killed him with shuttles, with ion-carrying Y-wings, and with Interceptors and Phantoms. He's eminently killable--it just takes planning, practice, and patience.

And seriously, it's going to get better as soon as Wave 6 arrives.

So then people have maximized their capability to fly Dash? The only axis that can grow from here is how to fly against him, nobody can possibly get better flying with him? Because a lot of people still seem to be flying him poorly. The Heaver v. Mu0n match is a good example. Proper respect to Mu0n, but he didn't fly it well at all - it was almost like he intentionally wanted to get stuck in the corner. He had at least 3 turns with opportunities for Dash to reverse the field, but he just kept stumbling towards the corner. Yet people are hailing it as some proof that Dash really isn't all that great.

Personally, I tend to think it's the opposite - a lot of people don't seem to appreciate just what Dash can do yet. It's not going to get better as people learn to fly against him - it's going to get worse as people learn to fly with him. Late edit: But either way, declaring that it'll get better as people learn to fly him assumes current perfection. Aren't you always arguing that Falcons really aren't that easy to fly? Why should we think Dash is already maximized? And if there's still room to the ceiling of both "fly Dash" and "fly against Dash" how can you make any predictive statements about where those ceilings are?

And you know it's going to get better with Wave 6... how? Because we know a lot more about Dash than we do about Wave 6, and you seem to think it's too early to declare Dash a problem... yet you seem to have no problem declaring the almost complete unknown of S&V as a cure? How does that work, exactly?

*drags over comfy chair and grabs some popcorn*

So then people have maximized their capability to fly Dash? The only axis that can grow from here is how to fly against him, nobody can possibly get better flying with him? Because a lot of people still seem to be flying him poorly.

As a community, we know a lot about how to fly barrel-rolling, boosting ships, and even how to fly barrel-rolling, boosting Large ships (e.g., Han + Expert Handling + Engine Upgrade). These are not new capabilities, and Dash's ability makes it easier rather than harder to use them well.

But we don't know a lot about how to attack ships that can attack in a Range 2-3 doughnut, and in the last couple of months I've seen a lot of people treat Dash as if he's Han and get smoked for it. A few people have clearly figured it out, based on lots of practice since GenCon or on Vassal, but it will take a while for a metagame to emerge and settle.

Aren't you always arguing that Falcons really aren't that easy to fly?

I'm always arguing that they're not an easy button or an I-win button, and that flying a Falcon at the top of its capabilities takes just as much thought and effort as flying an Interceptor well. That's not the same as "easy to fly".

And you know it's going to get better with Wave 6... how? Because we know a lot more about Dash than we do about Wave 6, and you seem to think it's too early to declare Dash a problem... yet you seem to have no problem declaring the almost complete unknown of S&V as a cure? How does that work, exactly?

It's public knowledge that Wave 6 includes an upgrade specifically designed to help fragile, highly maneuverable ships compete in a metagame that includes turrets. I'm also certain their Wave 6 design and playtesting were done with at least a potential proliferation of Large ships with turrets in mind; since Wave 5 was released first, it would be odd if it weren't part of their thinking.

Accordingly, it's a fairly straightforward exercise to conclude that FFG has something up their sleeve that they think makes Interceptors and their brethren more effective against turrets, explicitly including Dash + HLC. Maybe they're wrong--maybe they overshot things in terms of price, or undershot in terms of effect--but I'm an optimist.

Or we could call him Han Solo and the Journey for the Lost McDouble.

Han Solo and the Where's my Sundae?!?!

Han Solo and the Fight for the Scooter at Walmart.

As a community, we know a lot about how to fly barrel-rolling, boosting ships, and even how to fly barrel-rolling, boosting Large ships (e.g., Han + Expert Handling + Engine Upgrade). These are not new capabilities, and Dash's ability makes it easier rather than harder to use them well.

It is actually a new capability. No other large ship in the game can both barrel roll and boost in a turn. Being able to do both is absolutely huge.

I also think Dash's ability may make it easier to fly, but it's one with a ton of room to exploit that people just don't appreciate. Especially since one of the few ways to deal with Dash is to block him, as players learn to exploit obstacles in ways that will make him difficult to block he's only going to get worse.

But fair enough - if your analysis basically comes down to trusting FFG, that's fine. I'm considerably less sanguine about it at this point.