A little more central Imperium than anything OW is likely to usually reference, I grant, and I'm about to talk about Space Marines here, rather than the DW threads, but please bear with me? Why aren't there Space Marines on Cadia? I accept that, in some ways, Astartes are not so well equipped to perform long siege campaigns, where they are the besieged, but Cadia is one of the most important worlds in the Imperium, if you prefer Abaddon to retain his "Failbaddon" moniker. As the 13th Black Crusade tried to show, before it sort of got erased?, much of the Imperium can be brought down by the simple acquisition of one planet by the Ruinous Powers.

Now, I love the Cadians, and they are, bar none, my favorite regiment, for some reason, and I know that practically everything on their world is directed toward the repulsion of invasion by unholy monsters, but they are still JUST Guardsmen, mortals with cardboard armor, oversized flashlights, and some Lemans. Why, in all the history of the Imperium, did no one found a Space Marine Chapter on this vital world? If Abaddon DOES attack, as he occasionally appears to attempt, when he gets the itch, he's likely to hit the planet with LOTS of CSMs, from his own Chapter, probably some Word Bearers, and almost definitely an assortment of the the Big Four who directly serve the individual Ruinous Powers, as his position uniquely seems to allow him to make World Eaters, Plague Marines, Emp's Kids, and Thousand Sons be able to sit in a room, and cooperate.

When you can come out with ships, hordes of Cultists, and enough Chaos Space Marines to put on a convincing recreation of the Heresy's invasion of Holy Terra (and Creed is awesome, but a poor stand-in for the Emperor in the climax), it seems unlikely that JUST the Cadian Interior Guard and Kasrkin will be enough to repel them; one might think it would be good to have a set of Astartes there, to shore it up, supply inspiration and leadership,or what have you. Sure, they could fall to Chaos, like their brothers once did, but so could've the Cadian Council, before it burned. Cadia has great soldiers, so one would think that the Space Marines there would have some decent gene-stock to pick from.

Granted, maybe there IS an Ultramarines or Imperial Fists Watch Fortress, and/or an Inquisitorial Bastion there, and I just don't know it, but why is the safety of the planet seemingly left to the mortals on it? Time to ferry Inquisitors, henchmen, ships, and Space Marines there might be time you don't have.

Of course, the fact that Cadia is still there, and mostly held by the Cadians, should speak well to their ability to do just what I'm wondering at, so maybe I'm looking too much into this. Go Cadians!!!

There are the Astartes Praeses who are 20 chapters (possibly 18) who are tasked with guarding the Eye of Terror, and they probably spend a lot of time on Cadia. While not based on the planet, they are in the area. Cadia most likely isn't the only fortress world in the way of the Eye of Terror, just the only one with a lot of fluff written about it.

I agree, I do like the Cadians as well, because they are a strong and independent Imperial Fortress World who don't need no Astartes!

I'm not sure any of those Marines would normally "spend a lot of time on Cadia" when there is no crisis, as it seems like a waste of their potential that would be better used elsewhere in the vicinity of the Eye of Terror - but surely at least some of them would be in the nearby area and might follow a call to arms if fighting broke out on the planet.

Founding a Chapter on the world and transferring its ownership to the Astartes seems like a bad idea, as it would refocus the planet's infrastructure and industry to support a comparatively wasteful Marine asset and lose out on overall efficiency. Unless you subscribe to the most Marine-focused interpretation of the setting where Astartes have small arms immunity and can repel entire regiments, it is as Benu5 said: they don't need them. The only reason the Imperium of Man bothers with Space Marines at all rather than replacing them with even more regiments of Guard is out of tradition, and because the Astartes' impressive mobility and tactical adaptability allows them fight battles where the Guard would simply be way too slow to show up in sufficient strength, thus potentially allowing an enemy to retain initiative and fortify their positions.

In essence, the Space Marines are the firefighters of the IoM, constantly on the move to stomp out little flames with quick and efficient "shock and awe"-style assaults before they erupt into a brushfire that can only be stopped by throwing waves upon waves of Guardsmen at it. Or at least that is how GW described it in codex fluff.

Cadia's advantage here is that all those waves are already on-site.

In the end, other worlds that were way less defended than Cadia managed to repel CSM attacks just with their local forces. As it turns out, CSM are quite mortal, too.

Best ways to kill marines it seems is get hem inside a building and then collapse the building.

(worked even in game in the old Space marine/epic system)

But i gotta admit Cadians are awesome. And Catachans. Any guard regiment that will just as readily kill a commisar as obey his commands is cool in my book.

The Volscani Cataphracts are also badass, well for traitors that is, It takes balls to fight all of Cadia on your own, knowing you will die, when teh shock and suprise wears of and they counter attack.

It might also have something to do with the fact that Cadia was originally discovered (According to one novel) by Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers.(The Original fallen legion) While this is not generally known to your average Cadian, I'm sure somewhere amongst the adeptus Terra, they know. This might be just enough of a "stain" on the world that the Lords of Terra don't want to field another chapter out of there.

Or (from codex fluff) that Cadia is dangerously close to the Eye of Terror, and the percentage of inhabitants who have purple eyes, which has been rumoured to be caused by proximity to the Warp.

Perhaps the famed discipline of the Cadian people also serves a secondary purpose by keeping the people in check ...

Also, I just recalled that Space Marine Chapters tend to recruit from feral and hive worlds - both due to the unbridled brutality and violence that people grow up in (probably not a requirement to make good Marines but merely tradition), as well as the ... condition of their minds (the Index Astartes mentions that susceptibility to hypnotic suggestion is required for successful organ growth stimulation). Given Cadian culture, this might be further points against recruiting them for Marines. Unless they'd ferry in new recruits from the surrounding systems such as Belis Corona maybe? But then you may just as well just keep them there and report on an as-needed basis.

In the background, is there one ("official") regiment that hails from a world thats also a SM recruiting world?

My guess is GW said: those worlds are for guard, and these are for marines, let's not get them mixed.

I'm not saying that it should'nt happen. Far from it, I'd love to see some Fenrisian guard units, or a Catachan Flesh Tearer.

You also got several fleet based chapters, maybe they come once a generation to cadia and take some promesing whiteshields with them.

Well, I'd assume that most Space Marine worlds have more defenders than just their posthuman overlords. There will still be the natives they recruit from, and those won't just stop forming warrior bands on their own just because there's now a bunch of Marines to protect them. And ultimately, these people form the planet's PDF that reacts to hostile incursions, just like on any other Imperial world.

The difference is that these worlds are designated Marine fiefs and thus exempted from Imperial tithe (or rather, assigned a tithe grade of "adeptus non"), meaning that there will be neither raw materials nor manpower demanded by the Imperium, and this includes raising Guard regiments.

Still, from the Index Astartes:

"When looking to their defence, each world maintains its own dedicated armies, but can also call upon the protection of the Ultramarines. They are not required to levy troops for the Imperial Guard, but such is the prosperity and disciplined nature of Ultramar that hundreds of regiments stand ready to fight throughout the galaxy."

- WD #264

In short, at least in GW's background you may not find Imperial Guard regiments recruited from Space Marine fiefs, but it is possible that you encounter regiments of Marine fief PDF whose offworld deployment was decreed by the governing Chapter Master. I would assume that just like the Space Marines themselves, these soldiers would not be integrated into Munitorum hierarchy by default, but may join forces with the Imperial Guard from time to time as the situation (or rather their Astartes Lord) demands.

As for "Fenrisian Guard" or "Catachan Flesh Tearers" though, I'm confident that somewhere in 40k you'll find a planet that is close to Fenris but raises Guard regiments, as well as a Marine Chapter recruiting from a jungle death world.

Thematically, I'm quite pleased with there not being a direct overlap. It'd just make everything even more Marine-centric than it already is (Catachan Marines > Catachan humans, and Fenrisian Guard > other Guard) rather than giving everyone their own badasses.

Ah i see, i knew the realm of Ultramar had lots of PDF, but i tought they just remained in the ultramar region, rather than going out into the rest of the galaxy.

Yeah the guard is badass in its own way.

I'd love to see a Ironhand Straken vs Karn the betrayer combat!

What is your fave guard regiment?

I really like the Savlar Chem dogs (to high to feel fear) and the 19th Arkan Confederate

(confederates in space! yaaay! I skimmed trough the book in the store, saw a character was named "Cletus Modine" and bought it on the spot!)

Ah i see, i knew the realm of Ultramar had lots of PDF, but i tought they just remained in the ultramar region, rather than going out into the rest of the galaxy.

Yeah the guard is badass in its own way.

I'd love to see a Ironhand Straken vs Karn the betrayer combat!

What is your fave guard regiment?

I really like the Savlar Chem dogs (to high to feel fear) and the 19th Arkan Confederate

(confederates in space! yaaay! I skimmed trough the book in the store, saw a character was named "Cletus Modine" and bought it on the spot!)

I do like the Confederates. Also, Luggnum Sewer Rats. Highlanders in space.

What is your fave guard regiment?

Valhallans! I really have a soft spot for these "Space Soviets". A very bare bones approach to a Guard regiment in that individually they are less well equipped and less well trained than most of the other official units, but they make up for it with sheer determination even in the face of appalling casualties, Stalingrad-style. Plus, I like the look of their uniforms.

There's a number of other regiments that I really like as well, though. Praetorians, Mordian Iron Guard, Xenonian Free Companies, Steel Legion ...

Designwise, I also have a soft spot for the "SS-like" uniform worn by the Dneipr tankers (second to last image on the lower right of this image ). It's how I like to imagine the Merovech Mechanised Infantry in Dark Heresy, too.

yeah Praetorian XXiVth have sweet uniforms. If you are gonna stay calm and **** the cammoflage then you might aswell dress the part. I also like the Remus and phalanx troops. Say, that one with the access denied over it, could that be that experimental regiment of albino clones?

Say, that one with the access denied over it, could that be that experimental regiment of albino clones?

If you want it to be ...

The good thing about 40k's "no canon" policy - you can easily cherrypick stuff and slap your own brand on it. Especially as no-one has seen any pictures of the Afriels (if that's what you are referring to?).

I gotta say, they do remind me a little of the old Dune movie ...

Afriels yeah, couldn't remember the name. They made me think of the Sontarans from Doctor Who. But yeah now i see it, those guys who were with the navigator.

Dune would fit right into the 40k universe. Well except maybe the navigators unless they would eb some extremly mutated navis nobile.

I might be going a bit of topic here, but: any other movies that you think would fit right into the 40k universe?

For me it's Dune, Event Horizon, Alien(s), Metropolis, Galaxy of terror. (I tought about including Starcrash but that would be silly)

I'm sure 40k drew a lot of inspiration from Dune (the whole mutated Navigators thing + their guild, Imperial hierarchy, etc), as well as other movies, games and comics that were popular "back then". I mean, visually speaking, Space Marines are basically buffed up Star Wars Stormtroopers. Rambo, Judge Dredd, Laserburn, Terminator, Alien, .. it's a long list, and Games Workshop seems to have approached its setting with the Blizzard mindset: copy, mesh, improve.

And with the setting of 40k being such a huge and varied place, you could easily fit most of those inspirations straight into the 'verse with a minimum of modifications.

PS: @ Starcrash

I'm sure 40k drew a lot of inspiration from Dune (the whole mutated Navigators thing + their guild, Imperial hierarchy, etc), as well as other movies, games and comics that were popular "back then". I mean, visually speaking, Space Marines are basically buffed up Star Wars Stormtroopers. Rambo, Judge Dredd, Laserburn, Terminator, Alien, .. it's a long list, and Games Workshop seems to have approached its setting with the Blizzard mindset: copy, mesh, improve.

And with the setting of 40k being such a huge and varied place, you could easily fit most of those inspirations straight into the 'verse with a minimum of modifications.

PS: @ Starcrash

Yeah, 'Nids took no inspiration from Aliens at all, don't look the same or act the same in the slightest no sirree, and those Arbites? Where the hell did you get the Dredd idea from. Nope, they don't even LOOK similar at all.

I'm sure 40k drew a lot of inspiration from Dune (the whole mutated Navigators thing + their guild, Imperial hierarchy, etc), as well as other movies, games and comics that were popular "back then". I mean, visually speaking, Space Marines are basically buffed up Star Wars Stormtroopers. Rambo, Judge Dredd, Laserburn, Terminator, Alien, .. it's a long list, and Games Workshop seems to have approached its setting with the Blizzard mindset: copy, mesh, improve.

And with the setting of 40k being such a huge and varied place, you could easily fit most of those inspirations straight into the 'verse with a minimum of modifications.

PS: @ Starcrash

Yeah, 'Nids took no inspiration from Aliens at all, don't look the same or act the same in the slightest no sirree, and those Arbites? Where the hell did you get the Dredd idea from. Nope, they don't even LOOK similar at all.

Don't forget starship troopers!

Thank you Robin for introducing me to Star Crash, my life will never be the same.

Thank you Robin for introducing me to Star Crash, my life will never be the same.

Quite an intresting movie isn't it?

Well there is an Honor Company of Ultramarines and their successors that contently rotate garrison of Cadia. That is at least a company of marines on Cadia. Not to mention that as far as I know The Dark Angels and the Roc roam around the Eye of Terror along with a number of other chapters of Space Marines. Besides the Cadians are the most awesome of Guard Regiments (I am impartial to Kasrkins to the point that I hate the new Scion models *Cringe*), I don't think that they need a Marine Chapter on Cadia.