So with high ps phantoms and falcons running around is it a return to this list

2 blue squadrons with hlc

2 rookies

it has the fire power against falcons to take them down and 4 attack dice vs phantoms should also increase the chance of hitting it

what do people think?

Predator

This would be suicide against phantoms. ACD isn't just lots of green dice it's a decloak move every turn to dodge your arcs. You aren't going to consistently get a phantom in arc of enough firepower to kill it before you have too few ships alive to even attempt to chase it, especially since the phantom's support ships are going to immediately focus fire on your HLCs.

I would warn against phantoms, too. I definitely think it's possible with practice, though. I play BXXZZZ all the time and after getting smashed by Soontir, Whisper, and Echo repeatedly, they now cause my little issue. Biggest thing to learn is spread your arcs. With the six ships, I can almost always guarantee at least1-2 shots on a phantom, and can block one or more of her decloak options in the asteroids.

The problem is it almost always takes several shots and if you've only got one a turn you will likely lose a ship. I would, however, say that giving up a 22-29 point B wing for a 40 point phantom is often worth it, depending on its escorts.

I'd consider swapping out the rookies for 2 hwks with ion cannons - then you can hopefully position the phantoms to let the HLC b-wings chew them up and mess with their maneuverability advantage.

yup. spread arcs is a winner.

I played XXYY (ion turreted Ys) and Dutch and Garvin as named characters and smashed up echo pretty quickly both games as it was very hard for him to be out of arc.

Phantoms aren't that scary if you can deal with them quickly since the first round of engagement it's relatively easy to predict where they'll be. So with all 4 ships trained on it, you should be able to do at least 3 damage (.64, .64, 1.58, 1.58), leaving it fr next turn just needing one damage. Though you could also easily lose a ship before it fires, then you're in trouble.

Also, predator shouldn't really scare you. Yes it provides two rerolls, but 1) it's not widespread like phantoms and fat hans, and 2) when it is included, it's typically on the prime target anyways and will quickly be taken out.

ACD Phantoms were the reason I stopped running XXBB. The low PS prevented them from firing at a decloaked Phantom, although most of the time it was because the Phantom stayed out of arc.

There is hope for Low PS, High Damage builds though (for Rebels at least). For a while, when I was first starting to find a way to counter both Phantoms and Falcons, I settled on a squad that did fairly well, though I have since moved on to one that I think is better suited for tournaments. However, here is #stressbot 1.0

Wes+VI+R3-A2 (32)

Blue Sqd+FCS+FlechetteTorpedoes x2+Munitions Failsafe

Blue Sqd+FCS+Ion Cannon

Bandit Sqd

The idea is simple, Wes shoots at the target you wish to stress, the B-wings then follow up with accurate shots that negate range three agility bonuses and have the added effects of stress or Ionization. The Bandit does a great job being a sleeper, no one likes wasting shots on him because he is so cheap, yet, when he is in their face and denying actions your opponent is forced to shoot him or suffer. Either way, the low PS pilots just need to be Paired with someone who can remove the advantages that Phantoms and Fat Falcons posses. Wes Jansen with VI and R3-A2 is that pilot.

Aequitas, I love your squad! However, may I make a recommendation that you switch one of your Flechette torpedoes over to Wes instead? This way you can either stress two targets on the first encounter, or you can triple stress one target, OR you can have Wes use the torpedo on the first pass and use R3-A2 later. The only downside, of course, is knowing you'll be losing the torpedo if you miss, but that's okay if you ask me. You still have much more flexibility, and it's very possible that either Wes or the Blue in question could get focused down quickly. Just food for thought, because I really like the concept behind it. :3

2 blues with fcs

2 bandit squadron

1 ORS with intelligence agent.

May want to try this out, since the smuggler is the best blocking unit ever

Phantoms have nearly ruined the game. Every list out there has to be a counter to them nowadays and that severely limits what you can feasibly play with and expect to win

The other day I tried XXXBA against a dual Phantom (Echo and Whisper with the works) + dual Academy list. We quit at the 75 minute mark (a casual game testing for a tournament) with a damaged X and A and a full-health Whisper still on the board. Whisper probably would've won that if we'd continued playing, but it was nice to see my PS 1-2 Rebels dishing out about as much as they took. It would've been a Modified Win for the Phantom player in a tournament, with about a 3-point difference when time was called.

Roark + Ion Cannon Turret + Tactician

Hobbie + R3-A2

Biggs

Blue Squadron Pilot

Hobbie passes out stress at PS12. Any Phantom in Hobbie's arc is a dead Phantom. You could also drop tactician and Blue for 2x Bandits.

As a bonus, it probably also has good enough firepower that it can deal with Fat Han. Stress + Ion is really annoying for any list to deal with.

You know, I am just not seeing as many Phantoms as everyone does.

I also see a lot of ways to counter them when I build a list:

1. Anything with a turret

2. Anything with an Ion Cannon

3. Roark

4. Stress dealers

5. Squads that have three ships with 3+ firepower.

6. PS 9+

Also, I am much happier answering the question "how would this list handle a Phantom?" as opposed to the old question of "how would this list handle a swarm?"

I am really surprised people are not complaining more about rebel stress & ion lists. I have run a few of them and they can be nasty.

I am really surprised people are not complaining more about rebel stress & ion lists. I have run a few of them and they can be nasty.

I think it's because Phantoms (and Fat Hans) are considered cheesy, whereas rebel stress and ion lists are not considered so.

Roark + Ion Turret

Prototype Pilot + Chaaradan Refit x5

Roark can make sure your ship with good position can shoot before they recloak.

Lot's of A-wing can spread their firing arcs so the Phantom has no place to go

Finally the Ion Turret can stop the Phantoms from decloaking

It isn't designed to kill Phantoms, but I think it would be good against Phantoms or Fat Han Lists.

I am really surprised people are not complaining more about rebel stress & ion lists. I have run a few of them and they can be nasty.

I think it's because Phantoms (and Fat Hans) are considered cheesy, whereas rebel stress and ion lists are not considered so.

They're a lot more straight forward too. There is a lot of weird stuff you can do with Han and a Phantom that will catch the unsuspecting off guard and tends to make people upset. The big rebel ion/stress carriers are b-wings and y-wings, which are extremely straight forward ships to play as and against.

I am really surprised people are not complaining more about rebel stress & ion lists. I have run a few of them and they can be nasty.

I think it's because Phantoms (and Fat Hans) are considered cheesy, whereas rebel stress and ion lists are not considered so.

They're a lot more straight forward too. There is a lot of weird stuff you can do with Han and a Phantom that will catch the unsuspecting off guard and tends to make people upset. The big rebel ion/stress carriers are b-wings and y-wings, which are extremely straight forward ships to play as and against.

Hm, I don't know if I agree with that. Aside from people who are not tuned in to the meta (which may be a lot of people), the things that Fat Hans and Phantoms can do should not be a surprise to anyone here, given that we've been complaining about them for months.

I flew against a stress list yesterday and lost - but it was a great experience, because it wasn't a cheesy list and I had an opponent that I liked.

I suppose this touches on the overarching debate that's been waged on this forum - to what extent Phantoms, Hans, and Swarms together represent a rock<paper<scissors structure. There are good arguments on the other side, but I feel that they do represent this, and I feel chagrined to run against such lists, and I would feel entirely dirty flying one. Well, maybe not flying the Swarm, because swarms seem to be vintage - so, well-aged cheddar, rather than Velveeta.

But a stress list - that's a perfectly non-cheesy option.

So with high ps phantoms and falcons running around is it a return to this list

2 blue squadrons with hlc

2 rookies

it has the fire power against falcons to take them down and 4 attack dice vs phantoms should also increase the chance of hitting it

what do people think?

I think you are missing out on the big picture of what it is the Phantom does if you think more dice more more chance of hitting. Agility 4 when Cloaked isn't the issue with the Phantom, it is even getting it in your arc to begin with. Doesn't matter how many dice you have if you don't have a shot to begin with.

Phantoms have nearly ruined the game. Every list out there has to be a counter to them nowadays and that severely limits what you can feasibly play with and expect to win

I dont see that. I built my XXYY list as thematic 'yavin' style list and i had no idea what Rob was bringing to the table until he got to my house. He flew echo in both games we played and echo went down in flames to a list totally unprepared for phantoms twice in a row.

I tend not to build 'one trick pony' lists and do things that feel 'star wars' and are adaptable

certianly more fun that way and you dont ever feel like you've taken a knife to a gunfight.