Wes VI

Wedge Predator

Biggs

Bandit

99 points. Good against fat Falcons, good against phantoms... Weaknesses? TIE swarm?

3 x-wings, one of which is Biggs, will normally perform well.
With a Bandit squad, it's a little better.

However, once Wedge dies, it rather falls apart.

Phantoms should destroy this list pretty easily. You have PS 9 and PS 10, but no maneuvering options. Shooting first can only help so much if you aren't able to keep up with the phantom's maneuverability.

Sure, when 50% of the squad is dead, Biggs and Wedge,mother things are downhill. What specifically would this list struggle against?

I haven't had many problems with phantoms with this, just make them come to me to ensure they're in arc.

I haven't had many problems with phantoms with this, just make them come to me to ensure they're in arc.

Really? My experience is that lists like this get eaten alive by phantom and interceptor lists. And falcons. And swarms.

I would probably try jonus brothers against it. Playing defensively at range 3. 2 HLC equipped Delta's and the bomber who gives secondaries two rerolls. Probably kill biggs in one turn and wedge the next. However, not sure who I'd bet on to win.

Just to elaborate on that, there is a reason 4X/3XZ are never spoken about as meta-defining, or mentioned as any part of the RPS that so many people insist is the basis of the (tournament) game.

I ran this as an early version of my #stressbot list using:

Wedge, Wes+VI+R3-A2, Biggs+R2-D6+Determination, and a Bandit.

It performs REALLY well as most people ignore the Bandit unless you have him out of Biggs' protective bubble, which helps Biggs stay alive if they choose to fire at the Bandit. I found, however, that since the dice were prone to failure with Wedge's attack rolls without predator and I was unwilling to take R3-A2 off of Wes to generate points, I went ahead and dropped Biggs completely and went with a Blue Sqd B-wing w/ FCS. It murders most lists and messes with people's targeting priority because they want to kill Wedge, but have a TL'd and Focused B-wing in their face.

To counter your particular list I would fly:

Krassis Trelix+HLC+Rebel Captive+FlechetteTorpedo+Seismic Charge+Slave 1 title (50)

Kath Scarlet+Vet Instincts+HLC+Tactician+Seismic Charge (50)

Or

Echo+ACD+FCS+Intel Agent

OGP+HLC+Adv. Sensors

Black Sqd. Pilot+Wingman

Dark Curse

Those two particular lists flown by two other people have been able to beat me using a squad similar to yours and that is it.

It is still a great list, but everything in the game has at least one counter that is really effective.

I haven't had many problems with phantoms with this, just make them come to me to ensure they're in arc.

Really? My experience is that lists like this get eaten alive by phantom and interceptor lists. And falcons. And swarms.

I fly something similar and dominate Falcons and Phantoms. No one talks about it as meta defining because they are all flying Falcons and Phantoms.

I crushed a dual falcon list (Han Chewie) with this last night. Lost biggs only. I'm aware that its not meta defining. However, the rock, paper, scissors of: Swarm beats falcon, falcon beats phantoms, phantoms beat swarms grows tiresome. I'm looking for a list that is robust enough to hang with all three, but not be one of them this exposing yourself to the same weaknesses. Builds are builds, player skill has a lot to do with how things go. I would hold that the best players with the worst lists would consistently win against more inexperienced players with the more mainstream lists. Just trying to stir the pot a bit. Because if nobody does, then we'll all be stuck flying the exact same variants of the exact same three concepts...

A lot of 3 ship imperials could handle that. Whisper/Soontir/anything comes to mind.

An assault missile or two would force it to choose between taking splash damage or breaking formation letting you shoot at Wedge earlier

A lot of 3 ship imperials could handle that. Whisper/Soontir/anything comes to mind.

Except they don't. It's not the holy grail of 4 ship rebel counters to the meta, but in my experience it is highly effective at defeating most lists in the current meta.

Builds are builds, player skill has a lot to do with how things go. I would hold that the best players with the worst lists would consistently win against more inexperienced players with the more mainstream lists. Just trying to stir the pot a bit. Because if nobody does, then we'll all be stuck flying the exact same variants of the exact same three concepts...

I don't disagree with this, but it is irrelevant. I've beaten a fat Chewie list with Garven, Dutch and two reds. I wouldn't bet on that happening consistently though. The initial question was about the list, not player skill.

Given equal player skill and average dice rolls, this list is mid-tier. It will win some games, but you won't consistently beat any of the "top" lists with what amounts to a pretty standard four ship rebel list, unless you are playing people who are worse players than you. Cool, it's great to be a good player, but that doesn't say anything about the list. The title of the thread reads like you think this is a killer, top tier list and it just isn't.

I wasn't trying to say that. So miscommunication/misinterpretation there, I was just polling the community on specific counters to this list. It seemed to me to stand up pretty well against Falcons (wedge is a good 3p0 killer) as well as phantoms with Wes firing first and at 99 points giving a chance that wedge does to. The counters offered were the same answers that are the answes to everything 'Falcons or phantoms', but I was looking for something that perhaps I didn't think of (which is why I asked) and something potentially outside the realm of the current meta. I completely agree that it has its weaknesses. No ability to boost or barrel roll leaves it weak if fields of fire are misjudged. There are workarounds to that, staying at range For as long as possible and corralling, but I recognize that's a weakness. I suppose the point was to derive a list that stood up well against both the fat falcon and the phantom, but was neither. Any ideas?

I'm thinking some type of Vessery + Shuttle build might counter this, though I could be wrong.

Ok, yeah, I misunderstood what you were saying/asking then.

In my experience this kind of list tends to struggle against very agile lists. Not only the Phantom, but interceptor or even A-wing lists will give you trouble. X-wings just don't have the agility to keep them in arc without movement upgrades. What would be your plan against, say, a Soontir/Carnor/Turr list? Or even 4 RGPs?

A proper Rebel list with Roark Garnet, and Swarm Tactics on the right pilot, could take out Wes or Wedge before he even gets to shoot.

Against super agile lists, I tried just rolling in very slowly. One banks followed by one forwards after gets your opponent to telegraph their flanking position before they go. Just before getting into range turn in that direction then focus fire. I'll have to fly against some more agile lists multiple times to really see how it works. The previous discussion on using R3A2 on Wes would devastate an interceptor the following round by denying actions.

A proper Rebel list with Roark Garnet, and Swarm Tactics on the right pilot, could take out Wes or Wedge before he even gets to shoot.

Not if plays Biggs halfway decent.

A proper Rebel list with Roark Garnet, and Swarm Tactics on the right pilot, could take out Wes or Wedge before he even gets to shoot.

Not if plays Biggs halfway decent.

Like I said... Biggs dies first.

You got this bro. Solid list. More than enough firepower to shut down a falcon, and while I hear reports about these genius phantom players who can dodge every single arc on the board in every turn, I haven't seen one in real life. The phantom is putting half your list into a single ship, that, if shot at first by Wes+Wedge, is probably just dead. Biggs helps with this.

I have been running something similar, and think it could be the new meta.