I tried Nera out the other day. She was pretty fun — until I drew Munitions Failure for a crit. That was upsetting. The target lock requirement is still a bit of a hamper, though. I think she'd do well with Deadeye. Munitions Failsafe isn't a bad idea, either.

Dantel

Deadeye

E2

Rec.Spec.

APT. x2

You're welcome, 2 focuses, and a range 1 bubble to fire APTs with 1 of the focus tokens, and spend the other offensively.

15 points worth of upgrades on a B-Wing?

Bring it! I will eat you up and spit you out, all from range two where you can't do squat. That ship build is a disaster in the making.

I keep pointing that out as well, you don't make a fighter with one agility that expensive.

Its why i took reg and adv protons though. Got a punch as long as someone is within 1-3

Cos you know its easy to spot the flaws in lists when you see them on a board/forum but quite often players ( i know i do) forget what you've got in your list after the first turn or so and they are concentrating on their own manouvres , not remembering what you can do.

I knw super duper tourny winner types dont forget so much but i often forget about EPTs i've bought for *myself* let alone what my oppo has!

I'm playing a two game evening with my mate Sam on thursday. Both playing as rebel for one and imp for the other (non of that non narrative tosh ) and i intend to fly my b wing list as rebels and either the heavy interceptor list i ran up last month for my imperial game or 'raw' royal guard interceptors with PTL (three of em) and a doomshuttle.

I *think* i can squeeze the latter into 100 points, if not i'll just drop the quality of one of the ints.

I'll let you know how the 'B Team' does.

Cos you know its easy to spot the flaws in lists when you see them on a board/forum but quite often players ( i know i do) forget what you've got in your list after the first turn or so and they are concentrating on their own manouvres , not remembering what you can do.

No offense, but this is a really bad thing for your game TBH. You shouldn't have to be a super duper tournament player, as you put it earlier, to remember your opponent's list and actually factor it into your own maneuvers. That's basic X-Wing.

yeah i mean obviously i look at what im up against but i'm usually having too much fun to me trying to memorize it.

It actually adds to the fun in my opinion when you forget about something and then you're slammed by it half way through the game.

Personally i think 'blind list' games would be fun where you only know what type of ship you're up against and perhaps anything distinctive as you'd not have that much intelligence on your opponent in a real battle.

You might know you were up against three delta squadron ships.. you'd have no idea what was in their missile bay or whether one of the pilots could do soem nifty manouvre

You say its bad for my game, we're all having fun. If i wasnt it would be bad for my game.

Games are about having fun not winning or making them memory and maths exercises for me.

Im telling a story with bits of plastic on the dining room table not stressing about points efficiency or probabilities of getting a hit, i let the dice tell me whats going to happen when my 'pilot' squeezes the fire buttons on his flight yoke

No offence...

yeah i mean obviously i look at what im up against but i'm usually having too much fun to me trying to memorize it.

It actually adds to the fun in my opinion when you forget about something and then you're slammed by it half way through the game.

Personally i think 'blind list' games would be fun where you only know what type of ship you're up against and perhaps anything distinctive as you'd not have that much intelligence on your opponent in a real battle.

You might know you were up against three delta squadron ships.. you'd have no idea what was in their missile bay or whether one of the pilots could do soem nifty manouvre

You say its bad for my game, we're all having fun. If i wasnt it would be bad for my game.

Games are about having fun not winning or making them memory and maths exercises for me.

Im telling a story with bits of plastic on the dining room table not stressing about points efficiency or probabilities of getting a hit, i let the dice tell me whats going to happen when my 'pilot' squeezes the fire buttons on his flight yoke

No offence...

How dare you not recognize each game for the life and death struggle it is!

hahaha, i think years of running 'organised play' at warhammer world for GW put me off anything but the most casual of gaming.

to quote Roy... 'i've seen things you people wouldnt believe...' I'd like to add 'attack ships on fire off the shoulder of orion' but in truth it would be 'grown men crying over a ref call at a grand tourny'

B-wings are good 1on1 when cheap but they die fast when you focus fire on one, my last game I did eight damage in one turn to a b-wing it's really not inconceivable that she'll die before using all her ordinance which is why it's not worth making her the most expensive ship in the list.

This logic can be applied to any ship. You can focus fire anything down.

As for Nera, I do believe it comes down to the rest of the list you take with her in order to make her work properly, however, using her only as a 360 degree missile platform is a huge folly when you can capitalize on her as a B-Wing as well. If you saw my post on page 1, you can still fit 3 A-Wings that fly as support craft- or Nera flying as support for those A-Wings. The important part of that, though, was that Nera was still equipped with PtL and Advanced Sensors so she can still be a functioning, better Dagger Squadron Pilot before and after all of her ordinance has been expended.

Flying her, I found that the most important thing about her is the EPT slot, not her passive unique ability. Prior to Aces, the only B-Wings with EPTs were Ten Numb and Ibtisam, both of which are unnecessarily expensive and not worth it for their point costs. Now we have a PS5 B-Wing with an EPT, efficiently costed at 26 base points and an ability that is just icing on the cake. I think she'd do well in a 4-ship build similar to Biggs Walks the Dogs. Speaking of which, including Biggs in a list with Nera will allow her to survive longer in order to deliver her ordinance more consistently.

B-wings are good 1on1 when cheap but they die fast when you focus fire on one, my last game I did eight damage in one turn to a b-wing it's really not inconceivable that she'll die before using all her ordinance which is why it's not worth making her the most expensive ship in the list.

This logic can be applied to any ship. You can focus fire anything down.

As for Nera, I do believe it comes down to the rest of the list you take with her in order to make her work properly, however, using her only as a 360 degree missile platform is a huge folly when you can capitalize on her as a B-Wing as well. If you saw my post on page 1, you can still fit 3 A-Wings that fly as support craft- or Nera flying as support for those A-Wings. The important part of that, though, was that Nera was still equipped with PtL and Advanced Sensors so she can still be a functioning, better Dagger Squadron Pilot before and after all of her ordinance has been expended.

Flying her, I found that the most important thing about her is the EPT slot, not her passive unique ability. Prior to Aces, the only B-Wings with EPTs were Ten Numb and Ibtisam, both of which are unnecessarily expensive and not worth it for their point costs. Now we have a PS5 B-Wing with an EPT, efficiently costed at 26 base points and an ability that is just icing on the cake. I think she'd do well in a 4-ship build similar to Biggs Walks the Dogs. Speaking of which, including Biggs in a list with Nera will allow her to survive longer in order to deliver her ordinance more consistently.

This logic can be applied to any ship. You can focus fire anything down.

Not really, because some ships are harder to focus down than others. Consider Fel with a stealth device at range 3 against some TIE fighters. There's a pretty good chance that if you focus fire on Fel you're going to do very little, if any, damage even if everyone has him in arc. A b-wing, on the other hand, almost always takes damage when you shoot at it and doesn't dodge arcs all that well. So killing one is just a matter of pointing 8 HP worth of shots at it.

Prior to Aces, the only B-Wings with EPTs were Ten Numb and Ibtisam, both of which are unnecessarily expensive and not worth it for their point costs.

I don't understand this argument at all. Ibtisam is PS 6 with a relevant ability for only +2 points, or Farlander is PS 7 with an even better ability for +3 points. Those are huge point-efficient upgrades over a no-torpedo Nera. In fact, it's hard to imagine how Nera with a 3-point EPT is going to be better than naked Farlander, and even naked Ibtisam is probably better. If you aren't going to use her 360* torps then either tank a better named pilot or a cheaper generic.

This logic can be applied to any ship. You can focus fire anything down.

Not really, because some ships are harder to focus down than others. Consider Fel with a stealth device at range 3 against some TIE fighters. There's a pretty good chance that if you focus fire on Fel you're going to do very little, if any, damage even if everyone has him in arc. A b-wing, on the other hand, almost always takes damage when you shoot at it and doesn't dodge arcs all that well. So killing one is just a matter of pointing 8 HP worth of shots at it.

Prior to Aces, the only B-Wings with EPTs were Ten Numb and Ibtisam, both of which are unnecessarily expensive and not worth it for their point costs.

I don't understand this argument at all. Ibtisam is PS 6 with a relevant ability for only +2 points, or Farlander is PS 7 with an even better ability for +3 points. Those are huge point-efficient upgrades over a no-torpedo Nera. In fact, it's hard to imagine how Nera with a 3-point EPT is going to be better than naked Farlander, and even naked Ibtisam is probably better. If you aren't going to use her 360* torps then either tank a better named pilot or a cheaper generic.

Although I didn't include variance in my comment, the logic is still sound. Just because one ship is harder to focus fire down than another doesnt dismiss the fact that a ship with higher agility and modifications can still be focused down, which is why I find it to be an irrelevant argument against any ship.

As for Nera, I never mentioned Farlander as inefficient, as he's a completely different boat when it comes to choosing Nera, and you are correct when stating Ibtisam retains a relevant passive ability. But I will argue that two points still makes a world's difference when it comes to list building. Your argument for Ibtisam in comparison to Nera can be countered with the two point difference Nera offers, which is a Flechette Torpedo (relevant to her ability) or a Fire-Control System, or taking Nien Nunb/Intelligence Agent on the E2 mod, or opening up points for the rest of your squadron while still including an EPT on a B-Wing, which is very powerful regardless of Pilot Skill or passive abilities.

It is unwise to dismiss her as a choice simply because you won't use her for her ability. The argument of "tank a better named pilot or a cheaper generic" is stifling to strategy and all you accomplish in doing so is pigeon-holing your ingenuity and missing out on potential lists that could be accomplished by including Nera. I still believe that Nera is a viable option, whether choosing to run ordinance or not, but it seems to appear that she does tend to fall in the category of a "build around me" piece within a list as we try to find a way to synergize her stats, her ability and strategy to run her successfully.

Keyan is good but just like nera I wouldn't load him up with crew and expensive mods because he's in a one agility ship, yes you can focus down any ship but some die quicker than others, let's take defenders six hit points which is less than a b-wing but it's got three agility which helps alot, last game I played I took 3 defenders with ion cannons I had one focused by four ships and it went down to a single hull but if I'd had one green like a b-wing it would of been dead from those ten hits.

Not only didn't it die from the focus fire it went on to lead his b-wing a merry chase across the board surviving an average of two hits a turn, a b-wing in the same circumstances is dead.

B-wings are very good fighters but just don't work as the main ship you build around, you sink 40 points into nera she won't perform as well as a phantom and she'll die much faster.

i have been playing around with a list that i feel is relevant to this thread and had great luck with it. Before i go on let me say i never try to miss with the torps but if they do the fail safe kicks in and lets me retry. The idea is to stress them when you cant get a range 1 shot in.

I have to say that I've avoided this thread for a day and finally read it all. For one, I think the title of the thread is wrong. Diamond in the Rough makes it seem like she isn't a good choice, but really is. I've been on the forums for a few weeks steadily and there has been tons of talk about Nera being a great counter to Phantoms with Flachette Torps, Deadeye, and MF. Still, maybe others haven't read it and maybe someone just figured it out. That's OK.

Next, I hear the arguement that "yeah, but what if you don't fight a Phantom, then it's just a useless B-wing that dies easily" or "yeah, but once the torpedoes are gone, then Recon Specialist is dead weight". These statements sound that unless something is uber effective and cutting edge, it's useless. So, Recon Specialist is not worthwhile with just a regular B-wing? There isn't a single time when you might need 2 Focus a round? Also, some of you talk as if a standard B-wing is a useless ship. Sure, it doesn't have good dodge dice, but it's got lots of hull and shields and 3 red dice. Oh, and a good dial for jousting. If you don't have a Phantom, why is the B-wing a bad choice? Oh, sure, you don't build your whole list to fight Phantoms when you will fight other things, too, but if you are smart to build a decent list, this shouldn't be a problem.

Since everyone has been complaining about how there are just too many Phantom lists out there, I'm pretty happy to see something OTHER than a Falcon as an option to fight them. Also, I'm sure you can build a list with Nera that can also figh the Falcon. So, why are people so against the concept?

Trigger Finger Dantels

Just ran a practice using her as the meat of my list:

Nera, Enhanced Scopes, Proton Torpedoes, Flechette Torpedoes

Prototype Pilot, Proton Rockets

Rebel Operative, Ion Cannon Turret

Tala Sqn x2

The 360° proton torpedo fire came in handy to strip the shields off of a Defender while later the Flechettes finished off a Ps6 TIE. I used her as a tasmanian devil of hard 2s and target locks in the center while barrel rolling out of danger when needed. Enhanced Scopes ensured I never ran into anybody [though she did get run into]. I want to give her Deadeye but I haven't seen any A-Wings yet.

With no points to spare the Ps1 A-Wing repeatedly got out-maneuvered and shot up fast. Probably going to drop Proton Rockets for Chardaan and use the points to swap Nera's Protons for APTs and give one of the Z95s Ion Pulse Missiles.

Considering Nera is only 2pts more than a Dagger you're really paying 1pt for the +1PS and 1pt for her ability. That's quite the bargain for what gives you two turreted Torpedo Launchers. The other Named Pilots have good stress/attack abilities but Nera transforms the B-Wing into a dedicated torpedo bomber, though she forces you to use it as one. Ensuring she survives long enough to fire two torpedoes is down to loadout and strategy, of which there are many opinions but it's the same for any other ship with multiple ordnance slots.

360° PT+APT torp fire creates a fire arc covering over a third of the game area; either as area-denial or pummeling those caught in the bubble it's a great advantage. And as others have said, once the torps are away you can still use it as a Ps5 B-Wing.

Is there a way to "deliberately miss with flechette torps"?

Yes, there is. Combine it with Munitions Failsafe and Accuracy Corrector. Accuracy Corrector cancels your dice results and then you MAY, you don't have to add two hits.

Is there a way to "deliberately miss with flechette torps"?

Yes, there is. Combine it with Munitions Failsafe and Accuracy Corrector. Accuracy Corrector cancels your dice results and then you MAY, you don't have to add two hits.

Oh, the lulz.

I dunno if I'd do it, but I certainly hadn't noticed this. That is hilariously awesome. It'd be fun to build a dedicated stress-wing in a 150 point game or somesuch.

Is there a way to "deliberately miss with flechette torps"?

Yes, there is. Combine it with Munitions Failsafe and Accuracy Corrector. Accuracy Corrector cancels your dice results and then you MAY, you don't have to add two hits.

Pair that with gunner and you get an auto stress, then a primary attack. Worth it though? You'd only have to invest in one torpedo at least, since you'd always miss.

Is there a way to "deliberately miss with flechette torps"?

Yes, there is. Combine it with Munitions Failsafe and Accuracy Corrector. Accuracy Corrector cancels your dice results and then you MAY, you don't have to add two hits.

Pair that with gunner and you get an auto stress, then a primary attack. Worth it though? You'd only have to invest in one torpedo at least, since you'd always miss.

That's sort of evil but it is at least a 6 point investment and you are loosing a 3 firepower attack. The gunner +E-2 is also another 6 points as well if you want to include that in the investment.

That's 12 points, a torpedo slot, a crew slot, system upgrade and a modification to stress a ship at range 2-3.

I like it, but I think Tactician is probably the more cost effective option.

Right played my B wing list today and it was decimating.

I lost the basic dagger squadron (he was pretty much sacrificed to protect Nera and Keyan) but he was in til he end game

Keyan just ripped everything he shot at with the HLC apart and Nera having torps at close and long range was deadly

I was flying against tetran, mauler mythel , dark curse, and kir kanos

Kir kanos lasted one turn i think.

The red dice were with me but the combo of HLC and Keyan and PTL was lethal.

having nera fly his flank and be able to wang torps at anything trying to get round the rear was excellent.

I think i'd be happy flying that list again.

Just ran Nera tonight with FCS, Adv. Proton Toprs, Flechette, and Munitions failsafe. Plus Farlander with PTL and HLC and a Dagger.

Highlight was when a Gold Ioned Nera and then swung in behind her only to get hit for 5 damage from the APTs! She is definitely good fun if your opponent isn't expecting it.

Just ran Nera tonight with FCS, Adv. Proton Toprs, Flechette, and Munitions failsafe. Plus Farlander with PTL and HLC and a Dagger.

Highlight was when a Gold Ioned Nera and then swung in behind her only to get hit for 5 damage from the APTs! She is definitely good fun if your opponent isn't expecting it.

It does look like Nera is making torpedoes a more viable option then they have been after Wave 3.

Well, you have to expend TL just to fire flechette torps, but apart from that, okay.

Concerning Nera and her special ability, it might make advanced proton torpedoes more interesting; being limited to range 1, they really gain a lot from suddenly covering 360, in my mind. Set up Nera with TL and focus, either through PtL or transfer of TL/focus from a buddy, and you get to deliver a pretty heavy punch.

Does it make advanced proton torps worth 6 pts.? Mmm....nooo....

What do you think about putting the upcoming Extra Munitions upgrade on Nera? That would mean, effectively, she could get 2 APT for 8 points, or she could go with cheaper torpedoes. Having more for less squad points would take some of the sting out of missing with one, which would make it less tempting to fill her modification slot with a Munitions Failsafe. An Engine Upgrade would be adding to an already-expensive build, but with it, she would be able to deliver the APTs relatively easily.

Nera Dantels: A level 5 B-Wing with an EPT slot: You may fire your torpedoes outside of your arc. 26 points

Flechette Torpedoes: You can stress your opponents depending on their starting hull, irrespective of whether the attack hits. 2 points per equip, for up to two equips.

Munitions Failsafe: If the attack doesn't hit, you don't discard the torpedoes. 1 point to equip.

Combined? You have a night-inexhaustable shield of stress around your B-Wing, all at the cost of a target-lock.

Keeping a Phantom stressed is superb. They only have 4 green manuevers: the 2 and 3 forward, and the 2 banks.

If they ever want to cloak, they need to get rid of the stress the turn they get it.

Combined, these two factors reduce it's maneuverability to a manageable level. Moreover, as you have 360* fire, you don't really care.

Yes, there is a hole in the donut. Range 1, out of arc, is your only remaining vulnerability. However, B-Wings love fighting at Range 1 (what with the Barrel-Rolling and the 2 Koiogran and stuff),

Yes, she's got some bad match-ups. The Millennium Falcon springs to mind, as it shares the arc, negates the stress from the torpedoes, and likely negates the Munitions Failsafe as well. However, she might be strong enough as a control-figure for you to build the rest of your fleet as anti-Han, and let her turn the tides in your favor for the remainder.

I love Nera

I play her as flank/rear defence in a 3B list.

Main hitter is Keyan with PTL or SOT and a HLC, he stresses himself and enjoys focussed TL'd shots at the oncoming enemy

A bog standard B wing is put up front to draw fire and if ignored get flanking shots in.

Nera though, nera hovers around just behind keyan with failsafe and regular and advanced protons.

Even very experienced players i know (my mate rob wins store tournys) often forget her ability and rush something round the side or rear to exploit the bwings dificullty with manouvring quickly and BANG, its torpedo time.

Works more often than it doesnt.

edit: Doh, forgot i'd already replied to this thread.... not with it today