I am just wanting to bounce an idea for the Tie-Bomber off the community. This is not a fix I would expect FFG to implement, just an at home casual game change. Thank you ahead of time for your constructive input!

My frustration, and I don't think I'm alone, with the Tie-bomber is that in order to fully load it with ordinance (which is fairly accepted as being underpowered) you will WAY overpay for a ship that will never give a good ROI.

My simple fix is simple. A modification or title that changes the Tie-bomber's 2 attack to 0 attack and makes ALL ordinance placed on the tie-bomber cost -2 points.

Eg: Seismic charges and Flechette Torpedoes would be free to equip. And cluster missiles would only cost 2 points.

I think this would give the tie-bomber a considerably different feel without making it OP. Do you feel I am right? Yes, it would gain very good attacks with the ordinance it could equip at a reduced cost, but the drawbacks of ordinance (spending a target lock) would still be present.

Thank you for your input!

My alternate fix.

In games with imperial reinforcements, allow refreshed bombers to keep their initial ordnance loadout.

Alternate alternate fix: all ordnance have 2 uses.

In all honesty though I don't think tibbies are that bad. Just give them bombs..

Try flying naked bombers some. They're freakin' brilliant.

The problem is with the overcosted nature of all ordnance, and they're steadily fixing that.

It's only 13 points now to give it a Seismic Charge, 2x Flechettes and 2x Ion Pulse Missiles, and Munitions Failsafe, after all.

'course, that's an Obsidian Pilot....

I have 6 TIE bombers for a reason :-) I like flying them with just proton bombs. Especially if my enemy TIE/Z swarms.

So many crits. So many.

My frustration, and I don't think I'm alone, with the Tie-bomber is that in order to fully load it with ordinance (which is fairly accepted as being underpowered) you will WAY overpay for a ship that will never give a good ROI.

Your version of "never" must be different from mine. Fly a pair of generic Bombers with Jonus, give Jonus a Homing Missile or Ion Pulse Missile, and give each of the generic Bombers a couple of pieces of ordnance (don't try to "fully load" them). Round the list out with whatever fighter or fighters you like.

The fix that's needed is a fix for ordnance, not a fix that applies to the Bombers alone. DariusAPB's "all ordnance has two uses" is probably the best idea in the thread.

The bomber is great its ordinance that's a mess.

Easily fixed by giving a bunch of free ordinance cards at the beginning of the campaign, or for achieving objectives.

(I play narrative, not tourney.....)

Fully loading a bomber doesn't work because they were given 4 ordinance slots simply to allow up to 2 of either or one of each. The easiest way to allow that was just to give them the extra slots, and then let the inefficiency of fully loaded bombers stop people from running 2 of each.

Also, the thing bombers really need is a deadeye mod or title, or an ept slot to carry it which would also allow ptl.
If Gammas had an elite slot, they'd be much more viable.

18 points for a 6 hullpoint ship that isn't that terrible for agility and has all the ord options.

The Bomber is fine!

This said, another aces supplement could give EPT Y-wings and bombers...

The bomber's just fine. You just need to think about the ordnance slots as options, rather than a checklist to fill up.

My alternate fix: It doesn't need fixing.

I am just wanting to bounce an idea for the Tie-Bomber off the community. This is not a fix I would expect FFG to implement, just an at home casual game change. Thank you ahead of time for your constructive input!

My frustration, and I don't think I'm alone, with the Tie-bomber is that in order to fully load it with ordinance (which is fairly accepted as being underpowered) you will WAY overpay for a ship that will never give a good ROI.

I think the key problem with Bombers is that Ordnance is overcosted, as Vorpal said. If you fix this, then Bombers become much more viable, especially since they have Jonus for the Howlrunner-like buff. Bombers without ordnance aren't terrible, but they underperform relative to TIE Fighters. So while you would generally never take them naked as part of a Swarm, they can still be effective after they fire their missiles / torpedoes. The issue is that it simply costs too much for the ordnance in the first place, making the squad less competitive.

For reference, here are the House Rules that I have been developing. I haven't finished analyzing Missiles and Torpedoes, but I have started with a simple 1 point cost reduction for the basics.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122473-house-rules-technical-balance-fixes-for-casual-play/

Here is an example of a squad that you could build using these house rules:

99 points

Major Rhymer + Push the Limit + Advanced Proton Torpedoes (23+3+5 = 31)

Captain Jonus + Squad Leader (21+3=24)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Proton Torpedoes (16+3+3 = 22)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Proton Torpedoes (16+3+3 = 22)

Jonus gets a cost reduction of 1 point, and Rhymer 3 points. Note also a change to Squad Leader:

Squad Leader

• Cost increased from 2 to 3
• Card text now reads: Action: Choose up to 2 different ships at range 1-2 that have a lower pilot skill. The chosen ships may immediately each perform 1 free action.

Another fix: make torpedoes more effective vs capital ships somehow. Maybe mitigate the effects of reinforce, or strip reinforce.

A fix to rule them all:

Gammas get EPT, for a good use of Adrenaline Rush, Deadeye or Veteran Instincts ... or even PTL for APTs

I agree it's the ordinance that needs fixing. How about an upgrade card that says something like Each secondary weapon you equip may be used twice (bombs excluded). As mentioned above. I also agree that the naked bomber is not too shabby especially the "fat swarm" throw in a prox mine or two (my personal favorite) and they can tear some stuff up. Make this card a modification perhaps? I also think an across the board reduction in ordnance cost could work, especially for the older ordnance. 2 point PT, 2 point concussion, 3 point homing. This might be more favorable as a lot of people dont load more than 1 missle / torp per bomber, cause they often don't live long enough to make use of it. I also prefer a long range and close range setup over say, 2 PTs. I also agree that the newer ordninance seems better cost wise, now they just need to fix the old ordinance.

[anecdotal experience]

I played an amusing game with TIE Bombers at the weekend. My friends and I decided to stitch each other up with the most ridiculous lists we could devise for each other, then see how they performed.

I didn't really put too much thought into the lists; I gave my opponent Vader + Expose, Boba Fett & 2 Black Squadrons.

In return, I got Jonus and Rhymer, loaded for bear with every missile, torpedo and bomb slot filled. Both pilots also had Marksmanship. I was bemused, to say the least. And yet..

...my opponent flew in formation at me. An Assault Missile from Jonus hit Vader, stripped his shields and damaged everything else. A Homing Missile hit Vader and took him down to 1 hull. Jonus dropped, but the following turn a Proton Bomb finished off Vader, one of the Black Squadrons and did a critical to the Firespray as well.

Fett finished off Rhymer, but it left me thinking... what if the rest of that unused ordnance (and the pointless EPTs) had been replaced by, say, some other ships?

[/anecdotal experience]

What I've been suggesting is the you do not discard the ordnance. You do "action" reload the ordnance tube by rolling the red dice.. A crit is a malfunction in the autoloader so you need to try it again on the next turn.

I've found that when i have tried to use missiles and torps i almost never expend all of it and it ends up wasted, same tends to happen with my rebel friends.

I've found that when i have tried to use missiles and torps i almost never expend all of it and it ends up wasted, same tends to happen with my rebel friends.

Because your Defenders violently crush them into space dust before they get a chance to fire it?

I've found that when i have tried to use missiles and torps i almost never expend all of it and it ends up wasted, same tends to happen with my rebel friends.

Because your Defenders violently crush them into space dust before they get a chance to fire it?

Oh this was before wave four came out when I first started.

I haven't really run bombers since before wave 4 dropped(I love Phantoms and Defenders), but at Imdaar Alpha I ran a 4 bomber list that had Jonus with Squad leader, and 3 Scimitars with 1 cluster and 1 assault missile each. With some carefull flying, I was able to generally get off most of my missiles before being destroyed. I didn't win the whole thing, but it was my first tournament and I went 2 and 2 and got 15th out of 26, while beating the guy who ended up going 3-1 and getting 6th. So I was happy with the result. I guess my point is that, at least before wave 4 and I would say probably now, a 4 bomber list is viable if you can fly it right even using "overcosted" ordnance.

I am just wanting to bounce an idea for the Tie-Bomber off the community. This is not a fix I would expect FFG to implement, just an at home casual game change. Thank you ahead of time for your constructive input!

My frustration, and I don't think I'm alone, with the Tie-bomber is that in order to fully load it with ordinance (which is fairly accepted as being underpowered) you will WAY overpay for a ship that will never give a good ROI.

I think the key problem with Bombers is that Ordnance is overcosted, as Vorpal said. If you fix this, then Bombers become much more viable, especially since they have Jonus for the Howlrunner-like buff. Bombers without ordnance aren't terrible, but they underperform relative to TIE Fighters. So while you would generally never take them naked as part of a Swarm, they can still be effective after they fire their missiles / torpedoes. The issue is that it simply costs too much for the ordnance in the first place, making the squad less competitive.

For reference, here are the House Rules that I have been developing. I haven't finished analyzing Missiles and Torpedoes, but I have started with a simple 1 point cost reduction for the basics.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122473-house-rules-technical-balance-fixes-for-casual-play/

Here is an example of a squad that you could build using these house rules:

99 points

Major Rhymer + Push the Limit + Advanced Proton Torpedoes (23+3+5 = 31)

Captain Jonus + Squad Leader (21+3=24)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Proton Torpedoes (16+3+3 = 22)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Proton Torpedoes (16+3+3 = 22)

Jonus gets a cost reduction of 1 point, and Rhymer 3 points. Note also a change to Squad Leader:

Squad Leader

• Cost increased from 2 to 3
• Card text now reads: Action: Choose up to 2 different ships at range 1-2 that have a lower pilot skill. The chosen ships may immediately each perform 1 free action.

I actually want to run bombers without jonus though. And the way stuff works in this game. That's just not the greatest idea.

I actually like the idea of his fix. It certainly sounds fun. Doesn't seem like a bad idea. Too bad a lot of shots will still whiffle. But at least we get a lot of exciting 4 dice shots.