with the dual shuttle build, you can hit the brakes at about range 2 and watch their mass K turn fail epically, of course they may block you, whihc is why Advanced sensors are good if you are planning this strategy.

You can't block a 0 move.

Well, that at least isn't an issue with my 'proper' list - Vader and Stele are both on the upper end of good, and if I can get my grubby mittens on some proton rockets cards, they'll be the big stick for a change.

However, the question came up because We've got a sort-of-escalation league going at my LGS, and are stuck using 100 points of basic (lowest PS) pilots aside from one 'squad leader', and in that game I found myself just jousting a lot.

A lot of the rebel players seem to be using E-wings, which are very nice but Knaves do have the weakness that they're PS1 not PS2, which puts them at a disadvantage against Bombers, Advanceds and Phantoms.

I guess I'll just have to try splitting up more. At the moment I've been deploying the advanceds I can fit in in two groups, fairly close together. I guess pushing them further apart forces the enemy to go after one or the other.

This LGS isn't Harliquins is it..? (Apologies if I'm wrong but your post seems very familiar..)

Regardless, as a fellow upstanding member of the glorious imperial navy I feel your pain with jousting (even great jousting ships like the defender aren't as good as an x or b wing in my book due to their higher cost in what is essentially the "try-your-luck-dice-off" that is the joust...)

As mentioned by others initial placement is the surest way of avoiding a joust-I've attempted to change position early on to avoid jousts in the past when my deployment was less than ideal and I have to say it can be a bit touch-and-go, especially if your opponent cottons-on and presses ahead as quickly as possible (losing ships to enemy fire without a shot/chance of shot early on by getting broadsided does nothing for your piloting confidence).

As a rule I'm all about trying to split your opponent's fire whilst concentrating yours so setting up in two groups and attacking his one group between your two is the ideal...

You always want to keep asteroids behind your ships, right before the joust. I usually swoop in and get asteroids behind my ships. Then I move enough so that his K-turn cannot take place without hitting the Asteroid. I always use asteroids as blockers to stop jousting! Lots of people hate Asteroids, but I love them. It works well and a lot of people I know don't to do it. It's a big advantage when used correctly.

I am thinking this is more an issue of your player community than the game's mechanics. The people i play with rarely end up jousting back and forth and the game invariably starts with an initial joust but then breaks down in to a brawl with opportunity attacks and squad composition meaning that player skill and good die rolls matter more than ship dials.

This game that seems to be outlined by the OP seems incredibly dull and mechanical and not the X-Wing i am used to playing

And thank God for that. It is all too common unfortunately for people to discuss the game as if it is only jousting back and forth. Glad to hear so many people see there is another (and much better) way.

A lot of our games have that initial 'pass' / 'joust' but then it breaks into smaller dogfights with ships spending more time trying to get on each others tails.

With my interceptors i try and negate that initial joust from the off by winging them up a flank and using a banked boost to be behind the lines by the second turn.

I can only think of 2 ways. Either split up my squadron so if they face 1 they leave the other alone, but that just allows them to focus down 1 ship at a time. Another is to put terrain between you and them. Not exactly good because 1 more defense dice rarely makes a difference but unless they are using turrets that will make them head into terrain they have to avoid or move through.

Either split up my squadron so if they face 1 they leave the other alone, but that just allows them to focus down 1 ship at a time.

That's why you make sure that both elements arrive at the same time. If all of your ships are engaged at the same time it doesn't really matter that they came in from different directions. You only get problems when you split your ships and screw up your timing, which lets your opponent focus on destroying one element with their whole force while the other element is out of range and not contributing anything.

When I'm running the Rebs, I like changing the game by having at least one turret on the table. They can do the usual joust manouvers, but the turret packing ship(s) just mozies around in lazy circles plinking away at things.

Recently I played a 2 Y's + HWK, Ions on the Y's and Blaster on the HWK. They just flew around in a circle Zapping things into submission. Probably not the best list against a swarm, but my opponent really likes running elite Imp lists, so it worked very well.

For either Reb or Imp, I often break up my formations and place them such that they can come at the opponent from more than one angle or it divides their attention and I can pick which part to focus on.

With TIE's, their really tight turn radius makes them very good at changing angles of attack quickly and in multiple directions all at once. You can start a joust, peel off after the initial pass, in multiple directions (even inlcuding a K-Turner or two) and see which way they go. Odds are you'll be able to flank them with atleast one of the elements of your squadron, if not two.

The above is a method my son has been able to use on me several times. The coolest example was, as a 9 year old, he pulled an awesome manouver with 5 TIE's... The Center one came head on, two on it's sides made banks angled in toward the center and the two on the edges both made hard turns away from the center. That was the first pass, three ships focused in on one target in the center. Next turn everything pulled a K-Turn, which put all 5 fighters with over lapping fire arcs on the center of the scrum. What saved me was that I didn't K-Turn myself, but had all my ships take a hard turn instead.

Faster ships can also act as bait to draw some of the opponent's forces off then bolt back toward the main scrum from a flank while their pursuers scramble to get back to on their tail.

I guess the main jist of my advice is to not play the Joust game. Mix it up and break the pattern. Might not always work, but when it does, it's a lot more fun.

-DavicusPrime

I tend to go with the thinking that splitting your forces at deployment is not generally a good thing. Also, I avoid setting up near the center of the board due to the advantages the opponent would have if he did split his forces. My happy medium is deploying for center (though closer to the corner) so I can come in at an oblique angle. If he turns to face me, he jousts into the asteroids, if he takes a snap shot from his corner arc and passes in a k turn, I can hard turn into him and keep my actions as he passes.

If I had some skills at posting pictures I would show how this works visually, but I hope the explanation above suffices.

I tend to go with the thinking that splitting your forces at deployment is not generally a good thing. Also, I avoid setting up near the center of the board due to the advantages the opponent would have if he did split his forces. My happy medium is deploying for center (though closer to the corner) so I can come in at an oblique angle. If he turns to face me, he jousts into the asteroids, if he takes a snap shot from his corner arc and passes in a k turn, I can hard turn into him and keep my actions as he passes.

If I had some skills at posting pictures I would show how this works visually, but I hope the explanation above suffices.

It depends on what you're flying, but I find that grouping ships together makes them more predictable and less able to react to significant movement by the enemy. You're also covering less area of the board. There are benefits to both strategies and different ships lend themselves to staying close together more than others, but it's certainly not a universal rule one way or the other.

AlexW, you are right that it tends to not universally cover all the strategies, lists, or individual play styles. But nothing really can. I usually play 4 ship Rebels and it works well for me, allowing my force to pin down Falcons or attack a Phantom's support force before the Phantom shows up. In my experiences, splitting my forces up too early tips my hand to my opponent as to what I plan on doing (even though formation flying also telegraphs exactly what you are planning on doing).

Edit: I had to go through and clarify some poorly worded sentences. To simplify, I don't stay in formation the whole time, just long enough for the opponent to get comfortable with the idea that I am.

I would suggest try to make the opponent commit to a course of action while at the same time readying your own ships to capitalize on that commitment. Make him think you're doing one thing. You need to control the point of the merge and be in position to use the board, terrain, and the ships to your own advantage. And maybe forego a turn of shooting for some flat out movement or an unexpected maneuver...which again makes him commit to an action and gives you an opportunity.

And sometimes...you just have to be confident enough to take your ships into the merge head on, all guns firing, swing around and "joust" as some say. Of course...my trust in my dice is somewhat...lacking...lol.

I like to think that a full on joust is the Most Dangerous Course of Action you can take. I don't fear it, mainly because most of the time I can benefit my squad by taking out an HVT in that joust.

Edit: of course it may also be the MDCOA for your opponent depending on their squad too. Identifying the Most Probable Course of Action is easy as long as you think like your opponent.

don't get on the horse

Jousting is a consensual playstyle. I find k-turns unfavorable so I try to avoid jousting by deploying in ways the discourage it, making use of asteroids, etc.

If you cant joust ram them. Then break.

Turrets or blocking or boost/barrel roll. Or park in/near asteroids.

Hmm... The diagonal approach is probably a good idea. The big edge imperial fighters generally have is barrel roll, which supports flying around a loose-ish asteroid cluster.

For the most part, I tend not to have a problem with straight jousting, but I noticed that the games we were playing last week with 'basic' fighters seemed to devolve into that far more than I'm used to - I was looking for suggestions to help avoid it in general tactics terms rather than 'take card X, Y, or Z', which isn't an option.

For the most part, I tend not to have a problem with straight jousting, but I noticed that the games we were playing last week with 'basic' fighters seemed to devolve into that far more than I'm used to - I was looking for suggestions to help avoid it in general tactics terms rather than 'take card X, Y, or Z', which isn't an option.

That's really just a problem with the weird house rules you're playing with. Unique pilots and upgrades are the things that do the most to give you options other than jousting and letting the dice decide, generic pilots with no upgrades just don't have much ability to do anything else. And that's especially true since you're trying to fly the TIE advanced without using the one pilot decent pilot it has. Not only is it a bad ship it's not a very maneuverable one, so it's going to be very hard to match your opponent's k-turns without doing your own k-turn.

Now, you do still have the opportunity to set up a turning fight in deployment and your initial maneuvers, but once you get stuck in a joust it's going to be very difficult to break out of it without putting yourself at a huge disadvantage.

Imho, you are only ever "locked" into a joust if you choose to accept the joust.

Anyone should be able to spot when a joust is lined up/prepared during deployment and plan accordingly.

The most common tricks to avoiding a joust is to lead your opponent into the rocks, break up their formation, or split your forces and close in - in such a way as to have all your ships fire at a single ship or two - at the same time/in the same round. i.e. flanking.

So when splitting up, don't set your ships up "too far" from the main action.

I tend to have a TIE Defender in my lists. It'll outfly any would-be jousters or force them to break their habbits.